Trump MAGAthread VIII: Make the MAGAthread Great Again

[Zeinbrad]

Invasion is not part of those option. You cannot really expect the European armies to survive without US. Sure, Russia's military is outdated and not whole modernized, but they are Russians. They have huge military.

Except Russia (As well as China, for that matter) aren't really that outdated, and are rapidly closing the gap.

Actually they only have about 200,000 more fighters than the US' total armed forces. (2.5 mil vs 2.3 mil respectively)

However, when you take NATO into account, we're more than 2x the size of them (Let's change that number to 2.5 mil vs 7.4 mil (With 3.5 mil ready for deployment)).

Vast oversimplification here. First and foremost, the US Army currently rates a third of its combat brigades as effective as the most clear cut example. What does this mean in real terms? Back in 2003 we went into Iraq with 22 Brigade Combat Teams (BCTs have about 4,500 men); today we only have 20 that the Army rates as ready for combat duty. I don't think I should have to explain how bad of an idea it is to assume you can take on a peer power like Russia with less troops then it took to bungle the Iraqi War. As for our European leeches partners, the state of the Dutch Army having no ammo to even train says it all.

Oh no, old T-72s, whatever will we do?

To be blunt, we die.

Back during the Cold War we knew for a fact it was almost impossible to punch through the forward armor of even the T-62s, while we had a documented instance during the First Gulf War of a T-64 knocking out two of our Abrams before it was destroyed. That feat is made all the more startlingly when you realize that this Iraqi tank crew was less well trained than a Russian crew would be and was using export models of Russian tanks (Thus lacking the modern ammo and armor systems of the Russian Army's own tanks). If you've got the time, I'd also highly recommend you give a read to this Russian ERA testing back from the 1990s, then reflect upon the fact that they've had a new system of it since the mid-2000s while the US just started producing the ammo to counter it in 2013.

Oh no, the SOviet army of the 1970s is coming!

You'd be wise to remember that core elements of U.S. equipment, such as the F-15, are likewise from the 1970s.

The Iraqi army never used T-64's.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The sooner we realise laissez faire capitalism is patently incompetent at providing an effective national defence force, and is in fact a few steps away from outright high treason in the name of profit maximisation the better.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The sooner we realise laissez faire capitalism is patently incompetent at providing an effective national defence force

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the strongest military force in the history of our species.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The sooner we realise laissez faire capitalism is patently incompetent at providing an effective national defence force

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the strongest military force in the history of our species.

You have 20 combat effective brigades. PLA has 20 combat effective divisions, and is in fact doing everything USA is not doing.

[Kramania]

It doesn't seem like much of a fantasy, tbh. Out of everyone on NSG you seem like one of the most likely to celebrate if someone killed him.

Oh please. If Trump gets shot the nation will forget his incompetence and pettiness in mourning, plus he becomes a martyr and saint figure to his cultists. If he's alive and ejected from office it's pure schadenfreude with crowds chanting "YOU'RE FIRED!" at him repeatedly.

So if he was killed you wouldn't be upset because he died. You'd be upset because you wouldn't be able to humiliate him and remove him from office.

Nice, Gauth.

[Gauthier]

The sooner we realise laissez faire capitalism is patently incompetent at providing an effective national defence force, and is in fact a few steps away from outright high treason in the name of profit maximisation the better.

Blasphemy against The Free Market Fairy.

[The East Marches II]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the strongest military force in the history of our species.

You have 20 combat effective brigades. PLA has 20 combat effective divisions, and is in fact doing everything USA is not doing.

Thats what happens when you have a professional army that relies on reservists. Its no different than the Cold War. The current system is also employed by China, they have competition between companies within their system. You are looking for a thing to blame that isn't yourself for the pathetic state of European defense.

[Gauthier]

Oh please. If Trump gets shot the nation will forget his incompetence and pettiness in mourning, plus he becomes a martyr and saint figure to his cultists. If he's alive and ejected from office it's pure schadenfreude with crowds chanting "YOU'RE FIRED!" at him repeatedly.

So if he was killed you wouldn't be upset because he died. You'd be upset because you wouldn't be able to humiliate him and remove him from office.

Nice, Gauth.

Oh, am I supposed to weep and chant "MAGA" before throwing myself on his gold-plated funeral pyre? I had no idea that was the custom.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The sooner we realise laissez faire capitalism is patently incompetent at providing an effective national defence force, and is in fact a few steps away from outright high treason in the name of profit maximisation the better.

Blasphemy against The Free Market Fairy.

Remember who sold high tech milling machines to the Soviet Union in the name of profit, enabling them to build Akulas?

[The East Marches II]

So if he was killed you wouldn't be upset because he died. You'd be upset because you wouldn't be able to humiliate him and remove him from office.

Nice, Gauth.

Oh, am I supposed to weep and chant "MAGA" before throwing myself on his gold-plated funeral pyre? I had no idea that was the custom.

Given your usual defeatism, I'm glad to see you showing some optimism.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

You have 20 combat effective brigades. PLA has 20 combat effective divisions, and is in fact doing everything USA is not doing.

Thats what happens when you have a professional army that relies on reservists. Its no different than the Cold War. The current system is also employed by China, they have competition between companies within their system. You are looking for a thing to blame that isn't yourself for the pathetic state of European defense.

China is stealing and even outright buying advanced shit from Russia and America itself. Norinco is ardently state owned. Who's America buying from, who's America relying on? Is Boeing state owned?

[Kramania]

So if he was killed you wouldn't be upset because he died. You'd be upset because you wouldn't be able to humiliate him and remove him from office.

Nice, Gauth.

Oh, am I supposed to weep and chant "MAGA" before throwing myself on his gold-plated funeral pyre? I had no idea that was the custom.

You're supposed to not behave like a sociopath.

[The East Marches II]

Thats what happens when you have a professional army that relies on reservists. Its no different than the Cold War. The current system is also employed by China, they have competition between companies within their system. You are looking for a thing to blame that isn't yourself for the pathetic state of European defense.

China is stealing and even outright buying advanced shit from Russia and America itself. Who's America buying from?

Ourselves, we have the best. We did the same thing in the 1800s to the British Empire. They've ripped off the American method for getting rich.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

In fact all of the Chinese defence companies are state owned. Is Boeing state owned?

[Gauthier]

Oh, am I supposed to weep and chant "MAGA" before throwing myself on his gold-plated funeral pyre? I had no idea that was the custom.

You're supposed to not behave like a sociopath.

Not celebrating Trump getting shot is sociopathy? You just implied that people with empathy should be throwing parties.

[Washington Resistance Army]

In fact all of the Chinese defence companies are state owned. Is Boeing state owned?

It might as well be with all the handouts it gets, tbh.

[The East Marches II]

In fact all of the Chinese defence companies are state owned. Is Boeing state owned?

Competition between companies in China, they own the companies but they are still run as companies first and foremost. They don't operate at a loss. Profit motive is still there. There is very little difference besides Uncle Sugar isn't shareholder number 1.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

In fact all of the Chinese defence companies are state owned. Is Boeing state owned?

It might as well be with all the handouts it gets, tbh.

It's the other way around. Boeing owns the government. It sells the government shit jacked up to any price it wants and the government has no choice but to accept.

[The East Marches II]

It might as well be with all the handouts it gets, tbh.

It's the other way around. Boeing owns the government. It sells the government shit jacked up to any price it wants and the government has no choice but to accept.

Thats simply not true. Thats why we keep multiple suppliers. Please stop listening to Pierre Sprey.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It's the other way around. Boeing owns the government. It sells the government shit jacked up to any price it wants and the government has no choice but to accept.

Thats simply not true. Thats why we keep multiple suppliers.

Who else is there? Boeing owns every manufacturer there was in the late 80', except lolLockMart.

[The East Marches II]

Thats simply not true. Thats why we keep multiple suppliers.

Who else is there? Boeing owns every manufacturer there was in the late 80's.

Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrup Grumman, United Technologies, General Dynamics, and BAE Systems (different I think from the naval one)

This is not counting independent parts suppliers, rather these guys design the major components.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Who else is there? Boeing owns every manufacturer there was in the late 80's.

Lockheed Martin, Boeing, United Technologies, General Dynamics,, BAE Systems, and Northrop Grumman.

This is not counting independent parts suppliers, rather these guys design the major components.

And how many was there in 1980?

[The East Marches II]

Lockheed Martin, Boeing, United Technologies, General Dynamics,, BAE Systems, and Northrop Grumman.

This is not counting independent parts suppliers, rather these guys design the major components.

And how many was there in 1980?

Probably one or two more. Fairchild Republic died post-Cold War due to that peace dividend and Martin merged. Vought I think also fell to the Cold War cuts. I wasn't around then, Black Forrest seems knowledge on the matter. Maybe he can help.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

You have 1 submarine maker, 1 radar maker, 2.5 plane makers and 2 ground vehicles makers. Glorious Britain has 1 shipmaker, and one everything-maker. This doesn't exactly scream "Not An Oligarchy" for me.

[Zanera]

I still can't take the Norkie threat seriously and I can't take Trump's threat seriously.
Oh lords.