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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:32 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Olerand wrote:One authorized by the Security Council, as stipulated in the United Nations Charter that America (but that was a different America of course) set up.


>Authorized by the Security Council

Excuse me but it was clear we were restoring the police. If we really broke any rules, the robust international law system could call us to account :^)

If you murder someone and are not caught, have you or have you not broken the law?

Is murder legal because no one caught you?
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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:32 pm

Olerand wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
>Authorized by the Security Council

Excuse me but it was clear we were restoring the police. If we really broke any rules, the robust international law system could call us to account :^)

If you murder someone and are not caught, have you or have you not broken the law?

Is murder legal because no one caught you?


Yes of course, as far the law is concerned and indeed the rest of us, you didn't do it. :^)

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The Southern Confederacy
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Postby The Southern Confederacy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:33 pm

Olerand wrote:
The Southern Confederacy wrote:That's a lot of bs, once you get to the point of invading another country, international law goes out the window.

No, it doesn't. You can invade, but it's still not legal.

America obviously invaded Iraq. Illegally.

lmao you dont seem to be getting the point....if there is no judicial punishment involved, legality or the lack thereof is meaningless.
Officially the Confederate States of America. Sometimes called the Southern Confederacy to distinguish it further from the United States of America.

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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:34 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Olerand wrote:If you murder someone and are not caught, have you or have you not broken the law?

Is murder legal because no one caught you?


Yes of course, as far the law is concerned and indeed the rest of us, you didn't do it. :^)

Is murder legal? Plenty of people haven't been caught. Is murder thus legal?
French citizen. Still a Socialist Party member. Ségolène Royal 2019, I guess Actually I might vote la France Insoumise.

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Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever

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The Southern Confederacy
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Postby The Southern Confederacy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:34 pm

Kubra wrote:
The Southern Confederacy wrote:That's a lot of bs, once you get to the point of invading another country, international law goes out the window.
So the real problem with the invasion of Iraq was the americans not bringing their own chemical weapons to the playing field

Chemical weapons are a sign of weakness; it would be worrisome if the US had to stoop to use them
Officially the Confederate States of America. Sometimes called the Southern Confederacy to distinguish it further from the United States of America.

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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:34 pm

Olerand wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
Yes of course, as far the law is concerned and indeed the rest of us, you didn't do it. :^)

Is murder legal? Plenty of people haven't been caught. Is murder thus legal?


Those murders never happened. OJ Simpson is an innocent man on that charge :^)

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:34 pm

Olerand wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Because the Turks gave them the land for killing them.

But it wasn't a measure for the Kurds's sake.

The Turks wanted the Armenians/Assyrians dead. The Kurds wanted their land. They helped each other out.
The Turks did the Kurds no favors. Nothing here deserves loyalty. The Turks needed something from the Kurds and they delivered. It's a done deal.

In that case then, the Kurds are treacherous for murdering their neighbors, the Armenians and Assyrians.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:35 pm

The Southern Confederacy wrote:
Olerand wrote:No, it doesn't. You can invade, but it's still not legal.

America obviously invaded Iraq. Illegally.

lmao you dont seem to be getting the point....if there is no judicial punishment involved, legality or the lack thereof is meaningless.

Still illegal. Just because you haven't been caught, doesn't mean murder is off the books. America's invasion was illegal according to the laws America itself ushered in. Just because America hasn't been caught doesn't mean those American laws are off the books.
French citizen. Still a Socialist Party member. Ségolène Royal 2019, I guess Actually I might vote la France Insoumise.

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Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever

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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:36 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Olerand wrote:But it wasn't a measure for the Kurds's sake.

The Turks wanted the Armenians/Assyrians dead. The Kurds wanted their land. They helped each other out.
The Turks did the Kurds no favors. Nothing here deserves loyalty. The Turks needed something from the Kurds and they delivered. It's a done deal.

In that case then, the Kurds are treacherous for murdering their neighbors, the Armenians and Assyrians.


They were only following orders. The Turks and Kurds are natural friends. Erdogan and Barzani are returning to the historical norm.

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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:37 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Olerand wrote:Is murder legal? Plenty of people haven't been caught. Is murder thus legal?


Those murders never happened. OJ Simpson is an innocent man on that charge :^)

Is murder legal? OJ Simpson's sentence or lack thereof is not the point of discussion here.

Does OJ not being caught make murder legal?
French citizen. Still a Socialist Party member. Ségolène Royal 2019, I guess Actually I might vote la France Insoumise.

Qui suis-je?:
Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:37 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Olerand wrote:But it wasn't a measure for the Kurds's sake.

The Turks wanted the Armenians/Assyrians dead. The Kurds wanted their land. They helped each other out.
The Turks did the Kurds no favors. Nothing here deserves loyalty. The Turks needed something from the Kurds and they delivered. It's a done deal.

In that case then, the Kurds are treacherous for murdering their neighbors, the Armenians and Assyrians.
why would they not
I mean you've been under ottoman domination for the past few centuries and now some folks who you assume are pasha's are out giving you the same old orders.
What would you expect them to do?
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:38 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Olerand wrote:But it wasn't a measure for the Kurds's sake.

The Turks wanted the Armenians/Assyrians dead. The Kurds wanted their land. They helped each other out.
The Turks did the Kurds no favors. Nothing here deserves loyalty. The Turks needed something from the Kurds and they delivered. It's a done deal.

In that case then, the Kurds are treacherous for murdering their neighbors, the Armenians and Assyrians.

If you insist on finding them to be treacherous, sure. Though I would think the Turkish overlords, who were tasked with the protection of these minorities, and instead committed genocide against them are more treacherous.
French citizen. Still a Socialist Party member. Ségolène Royal 2019, I guess Actually I might vote la France Insoumise.

Qui suis-je?:
Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever

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The Southern Confederacy
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Postby The Southern Confederacy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:38 pm

Olerand wrote:
The Southern Confederacy wrote:lmao you dont seem to be getting the point....if there is no judicial punishment involved, legality or the lack thereof is meaningless.

Still illegal. Just because you haven't been caught, doesn't mean murder is off the books. America's invasion was illegal according to the laws America itself ushered in. Just because America hasn't been caught doesn't mean those American laws are off the books.

hasn't been caught? you make it sound like the Iraq Invasion was some clandestine operation that the good ol UN has failed to unearth

we did that shit in plain sight of the world, and no one had the power to do anything about it.

thus, "legality" = meaningless
Officially the Confederate States of America. Sometimes called the Southern Confederacy to distinguish it further from the United States of America.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:39 pm

Kubra wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:In that case then, the Kurds are treacherous for murdering their neighbors, the Armenians and Assyrians.
why would they not
I mean you've been under ottoman domination for the past few centuries and now some folks who you assume are pasha's are out giving you the same old orders.
What would you expect them to do?

You're just making the case for the Kurds being the treacherous, sociopathic people as always.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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The Southern Confederacy
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Postby The Southern Confederacy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:40 pm

Olerand wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
Those murders never happened. OJ Simpson is an innocent man on that charge :^)

Is murder legal? OJ Simpson's sentence or lack thereof is not the point of discussion here.

Does OJ not being caught make murder legal?

In his case, yes. If murder was illegal in OJ's case, and illegality carries consequences, then OJ should have faced hard time for it
Officially the Confederate States of America. Sometimes called the Southern Confederacy to distinguish it further from the United States of America.

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Olerand
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Founded: Sep 18, 2014
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Postby Olerand » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:42 pm

The Southern Confederacy wrote:
Olerand wrote:Still illegal. Just because you haven't been caught, doesn't mean murder is off the books. America's invasion was illegal according to the laws America itself ushered in. Just because America hasn't been caught doesn't mean those American laws are off the books.

hasn't been caught? you make it sound like the Iraq Invasion was some clandestine operation that the good ol UN has failed to unearth

we did that shit in plain sight of the world, and no one had the power to do anything about it.

thus, "legality" = meaningless

You is referring to the poster. Obviously not the illegal invasion.

And if legality is determined by being punished, then some of the greatest monsters, mobsters, and murderers in history were in fact legally murdering people.

For the entire duration of their activity until they were punished, monsters, terrorists, and serial killers were thus committing legal acts.
Which means that in fact... they should not have been punished at all.
French citizen. Still a Socialist Party member. Ségolène Royal 2019, I guess Actually I might vote la France Insoumise.

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Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever

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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:43 pm

Olerand wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
Those murders never happened. OJ Simpson is an innocent man on that charge :^)

Is murder legal? OJ Simpson's sentence or lack thereof is not the point of discussion here.

Does OJ not being caught make murder legal?


No murder occurred, just as no illegal invasion occurred

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Olerand
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Founded: Sep 18, 2014
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Postby Olerand » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:43 pm

The Southern Confederacy wrote:
Olerand wrote:Is murder legal? OJ Simpson's sentence or lack thereof is not the point of discussion here.

Does OJ not being caught make murder legal?

In his case, yes. If murder was illegal in OJ's case, and illegality carries consequences, then OJ should have faced hard time for it

Is murder now legal? Period. Is it legal? Not in OJ's case, but is it off the books, period?

The answer by the way is no. Much like America's illegal invasion did not alter the American written Charter's requirement that that illegal invasion be authorized by the American made Security Council.
Last edited by Olerand on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
French citizen. Still a Socialist Party member. Ségolène Royal 2019, I guess Actually I might vote la France Insoumise.

Qui suis-je?:
Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever

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Greek Orthodox Christian Church
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Founded: Jul 25, 2017
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Postby Greek Orthodox Christian Church » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:44 pm

I'm ashamed of the world at it's current state, let's legalize everything! because f laws right?!

Pedophilia is going to be a thing soon, I want to hear all you people when they're going to legalize it, pedophilia is disgusting right? that's what people thought about gays and gay marriage back in the 80's, we're going to accept pedophilia or they're going to shove it down our throats, just like gay sht.
Last edited by Greek Orthodox Christian Church on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Olerand
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Founded: Sep 18, 2014
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Postby Olerand » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:44 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Olerand wrote:Is murder legal? OJ Simpson's sentence or lack thereof is not the point of discussion here.

Does OJ not being caught make murder legal?


No murder occurred, just as no illegal invasion occurred

A point of contention even today.

Many will say he did it. Much like how the vast majority of the world will say America's invasion was illegal.
Which it was.
French citizen. Still a Socialist Party member. Ségolène Royal 2019, I guess Actually I might vote la France Insoumise.

Qui suis-je?:
Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever

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Kubra
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kubra » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:46 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Kubra wrote: why would they not
I mean you've been under ottoman domination for the past few centuries and now some folks who you assume are pasha's are out giving you the same old orders.
What would you expect them to do?

You're just making the case for the Kurds being the treacherous, sociopathic people as always.
And orthodoxies are all drunken layabouts, which is why fastidious muslims always overrun them. I don't know why there are arabs who tolerate or tolerated the presence of their churches and their immoral presence within their lands.

In any case, I'm merely laying out the historical reason why pre-30's kurds were what they were. If you'd like, I can go over why pre-30's orthodoxies were pogromists and perhaps consider why they are not pogromists now.
Last edited by Kubra on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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Olerand
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Founded: Sep 18, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Olerand » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:48 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Kubra wrote: why would they not
I mean you've been under ottoman domination for the past few centuries and now some folks who you assume are pasha's are out giving you the same old orders.
What would you expect them to do?

You're just making the case for the Kurds being the treacherous, sociopathic people as always.

... You are legitimately characterizing an entire population of millions of being sociopaths "as always"?

The things you read on the internet...
French citizen. Still a Socialist Party member. Ségolène Royal 2019, I guess Actually I might vote la France Insoumise.

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Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever

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The East Marches II
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Founded: Mar 11, 2017
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Postby The East Marches II » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:49 pm

Olerand wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
No murder occurred, just as no illegal invasion occurred

A point of contention even today.

Many will say he did it. Much like how the vast majority of the world will say America's invasion was illegal.
Which it was.


The courts and myself say otherwise. Good thing we aren't like the vast majority of the world. We may pay Sultans instead of restoring the peace and conducting a friendly police action!

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The Southern Confederacy
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Founded: Jul 08, 2017
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Postby The Southern Confederacy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:49 pm

Olerand wrote:
The Southern Confederacy wrote:hasn't been caught? you make it sound like the Iraq Invasion was some clandestine operation that the good ol UN has failed to unearth

we did that shit in plain sight of the world, and no one had the power to do anything about it.

thus, "legality" = meaningless

You is referring to the poster. Obviously not the illegal invasion.

And if legality is determined by being punished, then some of the greatest monsters, mobsters, and murderers in history were in fact legally murdering people.

For the entire duration of their activity until they were punished, monsters, terrorists, and serial killers were thus committing legal acts.
Which means that in fact... they should not have been punished at all.

You're one step closer to understanding the relationship between law and power, my friend
Officially the Confederate States of America. Sometimes called the Southern Confederacy to distinguish it further from the United States of America.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Founded: Feb 01, 2017
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:50 pm

Kubra wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:You're just making the case for the Kurds being the treacherous, sociopathic people as always.
And orthodoxies are all drunken layabouts, which is why fastidious muslims always overrun them. I don't know why there are arabs who tolerate or tolerated the presence of their churches and their immoral presence within their lands.

In any case, I'm merely laying out the historical reason why pre-30's kurds were what they were.

>pre-30's
Uh, I think you're forgetting about the Kurds literally being a fifth column.
>Saddam bribes them to help him fight Iran
>they join Iran
>literally ship Iranian troops into their villages
>Saddam bombs their villages
>hooman sheelds die

Kurds can help foreign powers invade their country, but because kids died in Halabja alongside the foreign troops they were helping invade the country, they're the good guys, it's such bullshit.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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