"Voluntary" sterilization and sentencing

[Neutraligon]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... d1f70ebafd

According to this page, a judge in Tennessee has been offering reduced jail time (30 days) to repeat offenders should they volunteer to have themselves get a vasectomy if male or a hormonal implant if female (which is far less permanent) free of charge. This is done to supposedly make it so that these inmates do not end up needing to pay things like child support after being unable to get jobs due to their drug conviction; it is supposed to allow these individuals a chance to "make something of themselves." Tennessee has been facing a serious drug epidemic.

To me this seems illogical, immoral, and likely unconstitutional. It is illogical in that those who already have children already likely have to pay for that child one way or another (either by being a parent or through child support) and so those people are not helped at all. It is immoral in the same way that requesting for testing of drugs on inmates is immoral even with the inmates volunteering, that would be that inmates are in a reduced capacity to consent due to them being in the power of the state. Finally it seems to me that this might fall under "cruel and unusual punishment" though it is supposed to act as a reward (they where already punished and this reduces the punishment).Oh and of course, this doesn't do a thing about the drug problem Tennessee is already facing.

Anyway what think you NSG?

edit: as a note when the article says General Sessions Judge Sam Benningfield, it means that his judgeship is in general sessions, it has nothing to do with the person Jeff Sessions.

[Thermodolia]

What's with the [r] in the title?

[Neutraligon]

What's with the [r] in the title?

No idea why I put that there...I feel stupid.

[Thermodolia]

What's with the [r] in the title?

No idea why I put that there...I feel stupid.

For a second I thought you had accidentally posted a report thread in NSG

[Aellex]

Isn't that literally the form of Eugenics people used to advocate back in the 18th/19th century when it hadn't shifted to "race" yet?

[Neutraligon]

No idea why I put that there...I feel stupid.

For a second I thought you had accidentally posted a report thread in NSG

Truth be told not sure how that got in there...any opinions on the topic?

[Minoa]

The initiative, in my opinion, makes no sense. BTW: I sometimes use country codes in titles (e.g. [UK] or [US]) to pinpoint the location of event, etc.

[Neutraligon]

Isn't that literally the form of Eugenics people used to advocate back in the 18th/19th century when it hadn't shifted to "race" yet?

Sterilize the criminals, yes. Although I don't think it was "voluntary" back then.

[Thermodolia]

For a second I thought you had accidentally posted a report thread in NSG

Truth be told not sure how that got in there...any opinions on the topic?

I thought it's fucked up. This judge shouldn't continue to be one

[Neutraligon]

Truth be told not sure how that got in there...any opinions on the topic?

I thought it's fucked up. This judge shouldn't continue to be one

You think this judge should be removed from office or should voluntarily step down. He is supposedly trying to fix a rather bad problem in the area he presides over. Even if this is a bad idea, is it enough to have him removed?

[Scomagia]

Truth be told not sure how that got in there...any opinions on the topic?

I thought it's fucked up. This judge shouldn't continue to be one

^Pretty much this. I'm sure this judge will give abnormally heavy sentences, then offer this for "reduced" (normal) sentences.

[Waldriech]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/07/21/judge-to-inmates-get-sterilized-and-ill-shave-off-jail-time/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-national%3Ahomepage%2Fcard&utm_term=.4ad1f70ebafd

According to this page, a judge in Tennessee has been offering reduced jail time (30 days) to repeat offenders should they volunteer to have themselves get a vasectomy if male or a hormonal implant if female (which is far less permanent) free of charge. This is done to supposedly make it so that these inmates do not end up needing to pay things like child support after being unable to get jobs due to their drug conviction; it is supposed to allow these individuals a chance to "make something of themselves." Tennessee has been facing a serious drug epidemic.

To me this seems illogical, immoral, and likely unconstitutional. It is illogical in that those who already have children already likely have to pay for that child one way or another (either by being a parent or through child support) and so those people are not helped at all. It is immoral in the same way that requesting for testing of drugs on inmates is immoral even with the inmates volunteering, that would be that inmates are in a reduced capacity to consent due to them being in the power of the state. Finally it seems to me that this might fall under "cruel and unusual punishment" though it is supposed to act as a reward (they where already punished and this reduces the punishment).Oh and of course, this doesn't do a thing about the drug problem Tennessee is already facing.

Anyway what think you NSG?

edit: as a note when the article says General Sessions Judge Sam Benningfield, it means that his judgeship is in general sessions, it has nothing to do with the person Jeff Sessions.

What criminal would take this offer?

[Washington Resistance Army]

...

Fucking what?

[Thermodolia]

I thought it's fucked up. This judge shouldn't continue to be one

You think this judge should be removed from office or should voluntarily step down. He is supposedly trying to fix a rather bad problem in the area he presides over. Even if this is a bad idea, is it enough to have him removed?

I don't think it's enough for him to be removed but I do believe that he should step down.

[Neutraligon]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/07/21/judge-to-inmates-get-sterilized-and-ill-shave-off-jail-time/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-national%3Ahomepage%2Fcard&utm_term=.4ad1f70ebafd

According to this page, a judge in Tennessee has been offering reduced jail time (30 days) to repeat offenders should they volunteer to have themselves get a vasectomy if male or a hormonal implant if female (which is far less permanent) free of charge. This is done to supposedly make it so that these inmates do not end up needing to pay things like child support after being unable to get jobs due to their drug conviction; it is supposed to allow these individuals a chance to "make something of themselves." Tennessee has been facing a serious drug epidemic.

To me this seems illogical, immoral, and likely unconstitutional. It is illogical in that those who already have children already likely have to pay for that child one way or another (either by being a parent or through child support) and so those people are not helped at all. It is immoral in the same way that requesting for testing of drugs on inmates is immoral even with the inmates volunteering, that would be that inmates are in a reduced capacity to consent due to them being in the power of the state. Finally it seems to me that this might fall under "cruel and unusual punishment" though it is supposed to act as a reward (they where already punished and this reduces the punishment).Oh and of course, this doesn't do a thing about the drug problem Tennessee is already facing.

Anyway what think you NSG?

edit: as a note when the article says General Sessions Judge Sam Benningfield, it means that his judgeship is in general sessions, it has nothing to do with the person Jeff Sessions.

What criminal would take this offer?

According to the article 30 odd women have already taken the offer (not a surprise for that one since the implant is not permanent) and 30 odd men are waiting to have the vasectomy (that one does somewhat surprise me since vasectomies are far more permanent).

[Vassenor]

So there are parts of America looking to jump on the eugenics train?

[Thermodolia]

So there are parts of America looking to jump on the eugenics train?

Well this is the Deep South we are talking about

[Neutraligon]

So there are parts of America looking to jump on the eugenics train?

Hmm, I think this isn't so much the idea that they can breed out crime (you know criminality is inherited) but rather that it is supposed to help criminals with financial matters (that is they won't have the additional cost of a kid) when they will have a hard enough time making ends meet due to their drug convictions.

[The East Marches II]

Broken families breed broken people. Bad enviroments mean bad outcomes. I understand his logic on the judge's side. It is not constitutional however in my opinion. Also I thought vasectomy operations could be undone later?

[Neutraligon]

Broken families breed broken people. Bad enviroments mean bad outcomes. I understand his logic on the judge's side. It is not constitutional however in my opinion. Also I thought vasectomy operations could be undone later?

Sometimes they can sometimes they can't. It depends on the amount of tissue the man has. Also, given that surgery costs money, and part of the reason this was done to help people so they no longer have to pay for children (ie money issues), yeah it is unlikely that a person would be able to pay for the surgery to get it undone.

[Threlizdun]

It's just a holdover from eugenics. It needs to be abolished. There is no justification for this.

So there are parts of America looking to jump on the eugenics train?

Jump on? Most of the states had laws actively utilizing forced sterilization of "undesirable" populations. There was a Supreme Court case, Buck v. Bell, that ruled states have the right to force sterilization of those deemed intellectually disabled. Carrie Buck, the defendant in the case, was forcibly sterilized after being raped by her cousin, as she had been determined "feeble-minded", and her mother was a prostitute.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

Nothing wrong with that, especially seeing how the procedure is voluntary. If anything, it's a pity sterilization isn't compulsory for drug addicts and habitual offenders.

[Neutraligon]

Nothing wrong with that, especially seeing how the procedure is voluntary. If anything, it's a pity sterilization isn't compulsory for drug addicts and habitual offenders.

Explain to me why criminals should be compulsory at all? How does one relate to the other?

[Saiwania]

30 days is too short to get many people to actually go for this. It probably has to be 1 year or more off of their sentence to get many inmates to want to go for this. If you're in for up to 10 years, it is probably worth waiting it out. But if you're in for 30 years or longer, people have every incentive to want to escape. Estimate how long you have to live and do a simple cost benefit analysis, there could be more to gain and less to lose by leaving, if you can manage it. I think I have it in me to pull an Andy Dufresne.

[Khalisako]

i kno w of men who a serial child fuckers and for them seterilization is the only time it seems proportional to what themy've done.

Drugs isn't enough of a crime. People can heal from that. it lnot a lifeliong curse like ohther things.

drugs addicts should be put into rehab, they are good people but with sickness like flu.