Son of The Bride of the MEGA Health Care Thread (Of DOOM!)

[Hydesland]

Price equals average revenue for a monopoly. Perhaps that's what I meant to say in my post, but I had just woken up :/

Yeah that's what I meant to say.. and I've got a micro test in a week *punches self*

[Les Drapeaux Brulants]

... A rational insurance company ought to estimate a person's health risk and charge premiums based on that level of risk.

And this would be the free market approach to the problem of health care costs. Risky people should cost more to insure than healthy people. Well, it would be the market approach if we were also able to shop for the level of health insurance that we wanted quoted, anyway. And if we weren't required to only shop in the state in which we reside...

If you just change the system so that the pool starts when you're born (or I guess when you're in the womb), and not when you're 23, then everyone in the pool basically has the same level of risk. So the idea that you're paying extra for a risky person's premiums basically disappears after a generation.

I'm having a tough time with this one... Certain people are always going to be more risky and others less so. The concept that you're paying extra may get lost in the fog of time, but not the fact of it. Doesn't matter if you're 23 years or -9 months, extra risk should be equated to extra cost. Isn't that what politicians love to do? Give someone a financial incentive, usually through tax deductions, to engage in politically desirable behavior?

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

Isn't that what politicians love to do? Give someone a financial incentive, usually through tax deductions, to engage in politically desirable behavior?

You can tax risky behavior directly. You don't have to rely on an insurance company to estimate someone's risky behavior. And really, at -9 months, the only difference in risk is probability of obtaining a genetic disorder. That's pretty small.

[CodyMck]

Cost:

* $940 billion over ten years.

Coverage:

* Would expand coverage to 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured.

Health Insurance Exchanges:

* The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.
* Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage -- effective 2014.
* Funding available to states to establish exchanges within one year of enactment and until January 1, 2015.

Subsidies:

* Individuals and families who make between 100 percent - 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies. They cannot be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid and cannot be covered by an employer. Eligible buyers receive premium credits and there is a cap for how much they have to contribute to their premiums on a sliding scale.

Federal Poverty Level for family of four is $22,050

Paying for the Plan:

* Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
* Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.
* Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.

Medicare:

* Closes the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole" by 2020. Seniors who hit the donut hole by 2010 will receive a $250 rebate.
* Beginning in 2011, seniors in the gap will receive a 50 percent discount on brand name drugs. The bill also includes $500 billion in Medicare cuts over the next decade.

Medicaid:

* Expands Medicaid to include 133 percent of federal poverty level which is $29,327 for a family of four.
* Requires states to expand Medicaid to include childless adults starting in 2014.
* Federal Government pays 100 percent of costs for covering newly eligible individuals through 2016.
* Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid.

Insurance Reforms:

* Six months after enactment, insurance companies could no longer denying children coverage based on a preexisting condition.
* Starting in 2014, insurance companies cannot deny coverage to anyone with preexisting conditions.
* Insurance companies must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans through age 26.

Abortion:

* The bill segregates private insurance premium funds from taxpayer funds. Individuals would have to pay for abortion coverage by making two separate payments, private funds would have to be kept in a separate account from federal and taxpayer funds.
* No health care plan would be required to offer abortion coverage. States could pass legislation choosing to opt out of offering abortion coverage through the exchange.

**Separately, anti-abortion Democrats worked out language with the White House on an executive order that would state that no federal funds can be used to pay for abortions except in the case of rape, incest or health of the mother. (Read more here)

Individual Mandate:

* In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.

Employer Mandate:

* Technically, there is no employer mandate. Employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Fines applied to entire number of employees minus some allowances.

Immigration:

* Illegal immigrants will not be allowed to buy health insurance in the exchanges -- even if they pay completely with their own money.

From: Theamclan.com

We can agree that Driving in the U.S. is a privilege in the United States. You need to have a Driver's License; Vehicle Registration; and Proof of Vehicle Insurance.

As of 2014 due to this bill; LIVING will be a privilege in the United States. At least living without health insurance.. Or the big government will FINE you 700$..

Will it stop there? What about LIFE INSURANCE? Will they impose a bill in a decade or so requiring all citizens to have that as well? Maybe it will be a $2000 fine.. (cost of a funeral service).. How about FLOOD INSURANCE? VOLCANO INSURANCE? so on and so forth...

[Jocabia]

Cost:

* $940 billion over ten years.

Coverage:

* Would expand coverage to 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured.

Health Insurance Exchanges:

* The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.
* Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage -- effective 2014.
* Funding available to states to establish exchanges within one year of enactment and until January 1, 2015.

Subsidies:

* Individuals and families who make between 100 percent - 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies. They cannot be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid and cannot be covered by an employer. Eligible buyers receive premium credits and there is a cap for how much they have to contribute to their premiums on a sliding scale.

Federal Poverty Level for family of four is $22,050

Paying for the Plan:

* Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
* Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.
* Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.

Medicare:

* Closes the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole" by 2020. Seniors who hit the donut hole by 2010 will receive a $250 rebate.
* Beginning in 2011, seniors in the gap will receive a 50 percent discount on brand name drugs. The bill also includes $500 billion in Medicare cuts over the next decade.

Medicaid:

* Expands Medicaid to include 133 percent of federal poverty level which is $29,327 for a family of four.
* Requires states to expand Medicaid to include childless adults starting in 2014.
* Federal Government pays 100 percent of costs for covering newly eligible individuals through 2016.
* Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid.

Insurance Reforms:

* Six months after enactment, insurance companies could no longer denying children coverage based on a preexisting condition.
* Starting in 2014, insurance companies cannot deny coverage to anyone with preexisting conditions.
* Insurance companies must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans through age 26.

Abortion:

* The bill segregates private insurance premium funds from taxpayer funds. Individuals would have to pay for abortion coverage by making two separate payments, private funds would have to be kept in a separate account from federal and taxpayer funds.
* No health care plan would be required to offer abortion coverage. States could pass legislation choosing to opt out of offering abortion coverage through the exchange.

**Separately, anti-abortion Democrats worked out language with the White House on an executive order that would state that no federal funds can be used to pay for abortions except in the case of rape, incest or health of the mother. (Read more here)

Individual Mandate:

* In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.

Employer Mandate:

* Technically, there is no employer mandate. Employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Fines applied to entire number of employees minus some allowances.

Immigration:

* Illegal immigrants will not be allowed to buy health insurance in the exchanges -- even if they pay completely with their own money.

From: Theamclan.com

We can agree that Driving in the U.S. is a privilege in the United States. You need to have a Driver's License; Vehicle Registration; and Proof of Vehicle Insurance.

As of 2014 due to this bill; LIVING will be a privilege in the United States. At least living without health insurance.. Or the big government will FINE you 700$..

Will it stop there? What about LIFE INSURANCE? Will they impose a bill in a decade or so requiring all citizens to have that as well? Maybe it will be a $2000 fine.. (cost of a funeral service).. How about FLOOD INSURANCE? VOLCANO INSURANCE? so on and so forth...

The difference being that your behavior, your lack of insurance, costs people money. Because emergency rooms are required to treat you even if you cannot provide insurance. It's part of that whole "emergency" thing. So you get treatment you cannot pay for and who do you think pays for it?

Keep in mind, dying is expensive. Really, really expensive. If I've got choose between the privelege of not paying for insurance or the privelege of not being turned away from the emergency room because I'm unconscious and they cannot verify my insurance, I'll choose the former.

Here are some other "priveleges" that you've lost. You don't have the privelege of not paying taxes on money you earn or things you buy. You don't have the privelege of not wearing a seatbelt when you operate a vehicle. You don't have the privelege of not signing up for selective service. You don't have the privelege of walking around without ID. The world is full of priveleges you don't have. You accept it all the time.