Son of The Bride of the MEGA Health Care Thread (Of DOOM!)

[Phenia]

He decided the world's largest Muslim country's undying gratitude wasn't worth it, and wanted to make impassioned speeches about healthcare instead.

If he'd gone there you'd have criticized him for bailing out on the health care discussions.

And yes, "undying gratitude" (erm, what?) is not more important than health care in the US.

On another forum I saw someone post this and I rather agree with his sentiments.

I was also pointing out that the people pushing this bill believe that a woman can choose to have an abortion 'because it's her body' but I'm not allowed to choose whether or not to have healthcare coverage. Whether I choose to take care of myself or not is my business 'because it's my body.'

Healthcare insurance is not your body.
Pathetic metaphor is pathetic.

[Natapoc]

On another forum I saw someone post this and I rather agree with his sentiments.

I was also pointing out that the people pushing this bill believe that a woman can choose to have an abortion 'because it's her body' but I'm not allowed to choose whether or not to have healthcare coverage. Whether I choose to take care of myself or not is my business 'because it's my body.'

This is a false comparison. You can still chose to reject or accept any medical procedure just as you were before.

An abortion is a medical procedure an insurance plan is not a medical procedure.

[Timhaukia]

Treason. You are kidding me. You are freakin' kidding me.

How is making the country a better and more hopeful place treason?

It is a sad day in this country when people are persecuted for trying to make this great nation a better place for this generation and future generations.

Better?

For whom?

Those who produce nothing and leech what they consume off of the ill-gotten fruits taken from those who have the imagination, the motivation, and the will to succeed?
Keep on taking from those who produce, and see what happens. Keep making the reward less and less, while increasing the risk and see what happens. Keep shaming them, denouncing them, despising them, and keep on making their tasks harder and harder to accomplish. Those in office now are certainly doing a damn good job of it so far, so the day when those who our society depends on to support this house of cards do finally say fuck it and stop shouldn't be too far off. I won't blame them a bit.

It's going to be just like Atlas Shrugs

[Nordicus]

It's going to be just like Atlas Shrugs

Summary for people who can't be arsed to read a novel to get a political view?

[Timhaukia]

BTW, this bill isn't about health care. It never was. It's about the Government getting more power. Take over banks? Check. Car companies? Check. Health Care Industry? Check. Student loans? Check.

It's so obvious yet nobody gets it. The Government doesn't care about you. They just want to strap you down and suck you dry (and not in a good way).

[Chumblywumbly]

It's going to be just like Atlas Shrugs

Summary for people who can't be arsed to read a novel to get a political view?

It seems Timhaukia can't be arsed either; the book is called Atlas Shrugged.

And it is utter nonsense.

[Arkinesia]

On another forum I saw someone post this and I rather agree with his sentiments.

I was also pointing out that the people pushing this bill believe that a woman can choose to have an abortion 'because it's her body' but I'm not allowed to choose whether or not to have healthcare coverage. Whether I choose to take care of myself or not is my business 'because it's my body.'

This is a false comparison. You can still chose to reject or accept any medical procedure just as you were before.

An abortion is a medical procedure an insurance plan is not a medical procedure.

If you're going to play that game.

I have to have insurance, or pay a fine. Why do I HAVE to have insurance? Will the goonies come get me if I don't have insurance? Should I be forced to buy health insurance?

Why must I buy health insurance?

A person not having insurance, in the event of a major medical accident, indirectly affects everyone else by running up a lot of health care costs which don't get paid, translating into higher prices for everyone else.

Sure, it cuts costs at the hospital, but not for the insurance. When everyone is legally compelled to buy health insurance, why should the insurers cut their rates?

[Nordicus]

Why must I buy health insurance?

So you won't end up being a burden on society if you get sick.

[Arkinesia]

Why must I buy health insurance?

So you won't end up being a burden on society if you get sick.

So kindness and charity no longer exists?

News to me.

[Timhaukia]

It's going to be just like Atlas Shrugs

Summary for people who can't be arsed to read a novel to get a political view?

I'd enlighten you if you hadn't asked the question like a fucking smartass. Google it. I'm not your Mom and I have no intention of holding your hand.

[Phenia]

BTW, this bill isn't about health care. It never was. It's about the Government getting more power. Take over banks? Check. Car companies? Check. Health Care Industry? Check. Student loans? Check.

wait can you please explain to me how my student federal loan was actually a cornerstone in some evil plot to control the world?

It's so obvious yet nobody gets it. The Government doesn't care about you. They just want to strap you down and suck you dry (and not in a good way).

Maybe if we run fast enough we can get away before they kill our babies in sacrifice to the dark gods of marxism.

It's going to be just like Atlas Shrugs

Summary for people who can't be arsed to read a novel to get a political view?

I'd enlighten you if you hadn't asked the question like a fucking smartass. Google it. I'm not your Mom and I have no intention of holding your hand.

As long as we're just googling your own argument for you how about we just not listen to you to begin with? Then we cut out that needless middle step of waiting for your one-word responses that contain more than one word but fewer than enough. win/win.

[Chumblywumbly]

I'd enlighten you if you hadn't asked the question like a fucking smartass. Google it. I'm not your Mom and I have no intention of holding your hand.

The catty nastiness and unwillingness to respond to reasonable requests for help is actually a good summation of Rand's naive writings.

[Imsogone]

Just asking, you understand.

1. How are we going to pay for it? The economy is tanked, unemployment is not improving significantly, tax revenues are down, we're to the point where there isn't enough being paid into Social Security to cover the outgo and the government can't afford to pay back what it's looted from the program, but we're going to have a brand-spanking, shiny new Health Care Reform Program - that we can't fucking pay for.

2. There are several thousand of us retired folks that have health insurance provided for us as part of our retirement package. How is our shiny new Health Care Reform thing that we can't pay for going to affect us? I can think of one thing that might happen already. My particular program is through the late great state of California - if the Feds offer a program, however sucky, California is sure to shuck ours like an old suit.

So NSG, what are the answers?

[Chumblywumbly]

The answer involves some sort of panel that decides when you die.

[Barringtonia]

I'm not sure but this graphic always gives me pause for thought,

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/v ... llar-gram/

[Timhaukia]

BTW, this bill isn't about health care. It never was. It's about the Government getting more power. Take over banks? Check. Car companies? Check. Health Care Industry? Check. Student loans? Check.

wait can you please explain to me how my student federal loan was actually a cornerstone in some evil plot to control the world?

It's so obvious yet nobody gets it. The Government doesn't care about you. They just want to strap you down and suck you dry (and not in a good way).

Maybe if we run fast enough we can get away before they kill our babies in sacrifice to the dark gods of marxism.

It's going to be just like Atlas Shrugs

Summary for people who can't be arsed to read a novel to get a political view?

I'd enlighten you if you hadn't asked the question like a fucking smartass. Google it. I'm not your Mom and I have no intention of holding your hand.

As long as we're just googling your own argument for you how about we just not listen to you to begin with? Then we cut out that needless middle step of waiting for your one-word responses that contain more than one word but fewer than enough. win/win.

Sounds good to me. Enjoy your chains fella.

[Chumblywumbly]

Sounds good to me. Enjoy your chains fella.

Though it's far from ideal, this mild healthcare reform seems more palatable than impotent threats to 'go Galt'.

[Fyorgynn]

Just asking, you understand.

1. How are we going to pay for it? The economy is tanked, unemployment is not improving significantly, tax revenues are down, we're to the point where there isn't enough being paid into Social Security to cover the outgo and the government can't afford to pay back what it's looted from the program, but we're going to have a brand-spanking, shiny new Health Care Reform Program - that we can't fucking pay for.

2. There are several thousand of us retired folks that have health insurance provided for us as part of our retirement package. How is our shiny new Health Care Reform thing that we can't pay for going to affect us? I can think of one thing that might happen already. My particular program is through the late great state of California - if the Feds offer a program, however sucky, California is sure to shuck ours like an old suit.

So NSG, what are the answers?

I haven't a clue on the answer, but I feel your pain. Our private ins is also going to get shucked like corn because the penalties are cheaper than the employer is paying now. It's a no brainer that he is going to drop the insurance and chuck us all to the Medicare crap policies. (And they are already crap and there is no plan to improve them). It's depressing.

As for how they are going to raise money...legalizing illegals is my next bet. Just guessing.

[South Norwega]

It's estimated from many sources that this Health Reform will actually save some quite large amount of money.

[Cannot think of a name]

Why must I buy health insurance?

So you won't end up being a burden on society if you get sick.

So kindness and charity no longer exists?

News to me.

Seriously?

[Fyorgynn]

I'm not sure but this graphic always gives me pause for thought,

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/v ... llar-gram/

Cool visual. I wonder how far off the Iraq war estimate is, if the actual years squares are indicative of the rate of spending I'd venture the estimate is way over blown but I don't know. An update on the visual would be nice. I like it, and it's pretty!

[Timhaukia]

We can't. We'll just pile on to our existing $12 trillion of debt. We'll lose our AAA rating (which we already don't deserve anymore) and go belly up. We'll collapse like the Soviet Union did. Our system will collapse under our debt burden and a new oppressive system will rise from the ashes.

Can a country file chapter 11?

[Heartlund]

I'm against this legislation until the budget issues are solved.

That is to say, once they stop taking non-existent dollars from Social Security and Medicare to create a "surplus."

Taking one non-existent dollar to pay for two programs each requiring a dollar? Hmm, no thank you.

Well said.

[Voltronica]

I'll get to answering your question after this one:
Why use the word "REFORM" unless you screwed something up before?

If they did, well I guess we will have to wait for the RERES.

[Melkor Unchained]

I'm not sure but this graphic always gives me pause for thought,

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/v ... llar-gram/

Interesting. The amount of money Americans donate to charity every year is roughly five times the cost of "Feed(ing) every child in the world for a year." Hm.