Son of The Bride of the MEGA Health Care Thread (Of DOOM!)

[Krazniastan]

Screw it.

People want to make their lives better at the expense of my labor, my dreams, and my ideas. They want to leech and steal what isn't theirs. And for what? To make up for their laziness, their lack of imagination, and their goddamn need to make themselves feel powerful by chaining those who have the unmitigated gall to make them feel bad by succeeding through hard work and determination rather than theft, deceit, and corruption. They want a safety net, to be free from the burden of having to take responsibility for their actions, to not have to lift a finger to have the same as those who do. What right do they have to do so?

One cannot help but wonder what the fallout will be. Its painfully clear those 219 who voted for this. . .legislation are not concerned by the Ballot box next election cycle. Nor are they listening to the soap boxes of their constituents who have not wanted this billion dollar boondoggle from day one. They apparently do not fear the threat of the Jury Box and its threat of treason either. I wonder if they honestly think they are beyond the reach of the last, and final box with which this country was founded on. . . .

[Liuzzo]

God, my facebook has nothing but status updates about communism, end of the country, etc.
UGH

Your friends are stupid. I thought I'd be the first to tell you.

Edit: This is a joke, sort of.

[Orlkjestad]

Screw it.

People want to make their lives better at the expense of my labor, my dreams, and my ideas. They want to leech and steal what isn't theirs. And for what? To make up for their laziness, their lack of imagination, and their goddamn need to make themselves feel powerful by chaining those who have the unmitigated gall to make them feel bad by succeeding through hard work and determination rather than theft, deceit, and corruption. They want a safety net, to be free from the burden of having to take responsibility for their actions, to not have to lift a finger to have the same as those who do. What right do they have to do so?

One cannot help but wonder what the fallout will be. Its painfully clear those 219 who voted for this. . .legislation are not concerned by the Ballot box next election cycle. Nor are they listening to the soap boxes of their constituents who have not wanted this billion dollar boondoggle from day one. They apparently do not fear the threat of the Jury Box and its threat of treason either. I wonder if they honestly think they are beyond the reach of the last, and final box with which this
country was founded on. . . .

Treason. You are kidding me. You are freakin' kidding me.

How is making the country a better and more hopeful place treason?

It is a sad day in this country when people are persecuted for trying to make this great nation a better place for this generation and future generations.

[Sorentos (Ancient)]

Firstly: haha, Boehner. Second, is the sound going weird for anyone else? He sounds like a robot.

He IS a robot.

Asimov's Three Laws of Republicanism:

1. A Republican must never harm a corporation nor, through inaction, allow a corporation to come to harm.

2. A Republican must obey every order given by a corporation, except when this would violate the First Law.

3. A Republican must act to preserve his own existence, except when this would violate the First or Second Law.

[Ashmoria: thanks for asking; it was a hernia repair, that I've been needing to have done for three years]

That is quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever read.

[Greed and Death]

Some guy named 'Nathan Dale' or something just resigned as a representative from Georgia, I think..

EDIT: Nevermind, a retirement.

Dammit. I thought for a moment the republicans were going to start resigning en masse.

Actually they just announced a boycott of both chambers and issued a call for secession.

You wish.

Seceding from the U.S., especially during this time of economic instability, would be incredibly detrimental for all parties involved.

Like that has stopped the republicans before.
Besides historically these things come when the economy sucks not during boom times.
who wants a civil war when everyone is too busy making money.

[Greed and Death]

Screw it.

People want to make their lives better at the expense of my labor, my dreams, and my ideas. They want to leech and steal what isn't theirs. And for what? To make up for their laziness, their lack of imagination, and their goddamn need to make themselves feel powerful by chaining those who have the unmitigated gall to make them feel bad by succeeding through hard work and determination rather than theft, deceit, and corruption. They want a safety net, to be free from the burden of having to take responsibility for their actions, to not have to lift a finger to have the same as those who do. What right do they have to do so?

One cannot help but wonder what the fallout will be. Its painfully clear those 219 who voted for this. . .legislation are not concerned by the Ballot box next election cycle. Nor are they listening to the soap boxes of their constituents who have not wanted this billion dollar boondoggle from day one. They apparently do not fear the threat of the Jury Box and its threat of treason either. I wonder if they honestly think they are beyond the reach of the last, and final box with which this
country was founded on. . . .

Treason. You are kidding me. You are freakin' kidding me.

How is making the country a better and more hopeful place treason?

It is a sad day in this country when people are persecuted for trying to make this great nation a better place for this generation and future generations.

The mandate renders the social contract void, it is not treason to take up arms now.

[Liuzzo]

The greatly anticipate health care bill is going through the House of Representatives today. President Barrack Obama will likely sign this bill the second he gets it if it goes through the House, and then the Senate, but last time it went through the Senate it was rejected. If the bill isn't passed today, they will vote on it again in November.

I think that the part about the bill, that says that you have to buy coverage or be fined is ridiculous! Its their choice, but that's just me.
What about you?

Actually the bill they voted on was from the Senate so it was not rejected by the Senate it was actually passed with 60 votes.

[Kalasparata]

we've got one in Australia and it's the greatest thing. Greater than slice bread!

[Liuzzo]

Isn't Obama on his tour in Asia?

They were unable to get the votes without amending the bill so it must go through the senate again.
And it is likely going to be subject to a filibuster again.

Not as far as I can tell but inform me if I am wrong with links please. The ammendments came in the form of the reconciliation bill. The overall bill was passed by the Senate and now the House.

[Tmutarakhan]

Firstly: haha, Boehner. Second, is the sound going weird for anyone else? He sounds like a robot.

He IS a robot.

Asimov's Three Laws of Republicanism:

1. A Republican must never harm a corporation nor, through inaction, allow a corporation to come to harm.

2. A Republican must obey every order given by a corporation, except when this would violate the First Law.

3. A Republican must act to preserve his own existence, except when this would violate the First or Second Law.

[Ashmoria: thanks for asking; it was a hernia repair, that I've been needing to have done for three years]

That is quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever read.

You think it's funny that I had hernia repair surgery????

Oh wait, I get it. You think that part about the Three Laws of Republicanism was a joke...

[Greed and Death]

Isn't Obama on his tour in Asia?

They were unable to get the votes without amending the bill so it must go through the senate again.
And it is likely going to be subject to a filibuster again.

Not as far as I can tell but inform me if I am wrong with links please. The ammendments came in the form of the reconciliation bill. The overall bill was passed by the Senate and now the House.

i miss read the earlier link, i am on about 70+ hours of work a week so my time is limited.

[Natapoc]

I'm a bit upset that you'll be fined if you don't take their insurance.

But what pisses me off is that people are forced thru the HMO's who have been screwing people for years. How the hell can you just force a nation to have insurance through the same people that are not only responsible for denying health coverage to people in dire need of it, but also give tax credits to said HMOs who are pretty much the root problem of this whole healthcare issue?

That is what I hate too. Any good healthcare bill would eradicate the entire concept of an HMO. Unfortunately they have far more political power then the people do.

edit: although there are probably enough good parts of the bill to make it slightly better then nothing at all. At least it seems to get rid of some of the worst abuses?

[Shofercia]

I'm a bit upset that you'll be fined if you don't take their insurance.

But what pisses me off is that people are forced thru the HMO's who have been screwing people for years. How the hell can you just force a nation to have insurance through the same people that are not only responsible for denying health coverage to people in dire need of it, but also give tax credits to said HMOs who are pretty much the root problem of this whole healthcare issue?

That is what I hate too. Any good healthcare bill would eradicate the entire concept of an HMO. Unfortunately they have far more political power then the people do.

edit: although there are probably enough good parts of the bill to make it slightly better then nothing at all. At least it seems to get rid of some of the worst abuses?

It does, but without a Public Option there's really no competition. If I don't like how Mechanic X repaired my car, I go to Mechanic Y. But if I don't like how Doctor X repaired my body, saying "Gov't should legislate for Doctor Y" somehow makes me a socialist in the eyes of many.

[Moreau Catholic High]

Screw it.

People want to make their lives better at the expense of my labor, my dreams, and my ideas. They want to leech and steal what isn't theirs. And for what? To make up for their laziness, their lack of imagination, and their goddamn need to make themselves feel powerful by chaining those who have the unmitigated gall to make them feel bad by succeeding through hard work and determination rather than theft, deceit, and corruption. They want a safety net, to be free from the burden of having to take responsibility for their actions, to not have to lift a finger to have the same as those who do. What right do they have to do so?

One cannot help but wonder what the fallout will be. Its painfully clear those 219 who voted for this. . .legislation are not concerned by the Ballot box next election cycle. Nor are they listening to the soap boxes of their constituents who have not wanted this billion dollar boondoggle from day one. They apparently do not fear the threat of the Jury Box and its threat of treason either. I wonder if they honestly think they are beyond the reach of the last, and final box with which this
country was founded on. . . .

Treason. You are kidding me. You are freakin' kidding me.

How is making the country a better and more hopeful place treason?

It is a sad day in this country when people are persecuted for trying to make this great nation a better place for this generation and future generations.

The mandate renders the social contract void, it is not treason to take up arms now.

Of all the things to use your only free "violent revolution" card on, you're going to choose a mandate to buy insurance?

[Phenia]

Its painfully clear those 219 who voted for this. . .legislation are not concerned by the Ballot box next election cycle. Nor are they listening to the soap boxes of their constituents who have not wanted this billion dollar boondoggle from day one. They apparently do not fear the threat of the Jury Box and its threat of treason either. I wonder if they honestly think they are beyond the reach of the last, and final box with which this country was founded on. . . .

Yeah they probably do honestly think they're beyond the threat of treason charges, and they're absolutely right.

Its not illegal to pass legislation you disagree with.

Sorry.

[Phenia]

The mandate renders the social contract void

Does that mean you now think it's OK to murder? Or are you not tearing that part of the social contract up.

, it is not treason to take up arms now.

Against the US government? Yes, yes it is.

You're going to have to use some other lie cuz those ones aren't good enough for anyone but the senile.

[Krazniastan]

Treason. You are kidding me. You are freakin' kidding me.

How is making the country a better and more hopeful place treason?

It is a sad day in this country when people are persecuted for trying to make this great nation a better place for this generation and future generations.

Better?

For whom?

Those who produce nothing and leech what they consume off of the ill-gotten fruits taken from those who have the imagination, the motivation, and the will to succeed?
Keep on taking from those who produce, and see what happens. Keep making the reward less and less, while increasing the risk and see what happens. Keep shaming them, denouncing them, despising them, and keep on making their tasks harder and harder to accomplish. Those in office now are certainly doing a damn good job of it so far, so the day when those who our society depends on to support this house of cards do finally say fuck it and stop shouldn't be too far off. I won't blame them a bit.

If someone walks into your home, puts a gun to your head, and demands you to give them all of your money, you wouldn't rest until they were in jail. But when the government does it 'for the greater good', you applaud.

Disgusting.

The mandate renders the social contract void, it is not treason to take up arms now.

Fuck 'em. Many talk of such action, but none have followed through. I wonder when someone will find the courage to cross that line first. . . .

[Liuzzo]

I could honestly care less about Health Care (I haven't really researched it, honestly).

My only problem with the bill is that a Public Option would mean the public pays for it (if I understood it correctly). That means, even if I have health insurance, my taxes will increase, and I'll have to pay for something I'll never use. If someone could enlighten me and prove me wrong, I'd be a bit more secure about the bill.

the public option has a premium just like all other insurance.

So it's just another Insurance Company?

Then how is it going to help the poor, if they have to pay the same rates on it anyway?

the POOR arent a problem. they have had health care through medicaid for decades.

Yes and it works , the problem is the folks that are not poor enough to be poor and not rich enough to afford private insurance . We won't mention those who are silly enough to actually get sick .

for sure

you would think that there wouldnt be so much resistance to the idea of making sure that people who work every day (as opposed to the "lazy" poor) should be helped to get health insurance.

so the protestors pretend that its about welfare recipients (code for black people).

Not just black people there are surely some Latino people they consider, and of course if you're Muslim then they can justify it as fighting terrorism. It's all about labels to these people. They sell the same ideas over and over with new names. American politics boil down to fear or hope in our modern world. Both parties pay lucrative contracts to PR firms that craft their message and their image. Everything is a derivative of those two basic emotions.

[Phenia]

Better?

For whom?

Those who produce nothing and leech what they consume off of the ill-gotten fruits taken from those who have the imagination, the motivation, and the will to succeed?

I can't tell:

Are you an anti-capitalist complaining about good for nothing CEOs who profit off your sweat and tears?

Are you being very narrowly focused anti-government?

Or are you implying that "those who have... the will to succeed" are superior peoples and that anyone else is a parasite and inferior?

Keep on taking from those who produce, and see what happens. Keep making the reward less and less, while increasing the risk and see what happens. Keep shaming them, denouncing them, despising them, and keep on making their tasks harder and harder to accomplish. Those in office now are certainly doing a damn good job of it so far, so the day when those who our society depends on to support this house of cards do finally say fuck it and stop shouldn't be too far off. I won't blame them a bit.

Just replace "in office" with "managing business" and this entire rant becomes standard boilerplate anti-capitalist fare.

If someone walks into your home, puts a gun to your head, and demands you to give them all of your money, you wouldn't rest until they were in jail. But when the government does it 'for the greater good', you applaud.

Disgusting.

So, you're against the concept of taxation and government itself...

Fuck 'em. Many talk of such action, but none have followed through. I wonder when someone will find the courage to cross that line first. . . .

the courage to start killing Americans.

How courageous. I guess you're an anarchist then, taxation, government bother you while you glorify chaos and violence. Well whatever your position, its based on nothing but bravado, threat and bluster.

[Nordicus]

Aren't doctors retiring, too?

Yes... but there were a heck of a lot less graduating doctors 40~50 years ago than there are now. And an increase in demand for their services typically means an increase in the average salary of the profession, which draws more people into the field.

And those uninsured people do currently get sick and make use of health care... they just spend a lot more on it, and if they get very sick, they end up bankrupt. As one of those uninsured (not eligible on my parent's insurance, and because of schooling, not working enough hours to be eligible for insurance through my work), that's certainly the situation I'm in. I've been lucky so far, and hopefully I'll stay that way until I can get some decent coverage somewhere.

The mandate renders the social contract void, it is not treason to take up arms now.

Fuck 'em. Many talk of such action, but none have followed through. I wonder when someone will find the courage to cross that line first. . . .

...and spend the rest of their life in prison, or paint the ground with their gray matter.

[Chumblywumbly]

The mandate renders the social contract void

Does that mean you now think it's OK to murder? Or are you not tearing that part of the social contract up.

A social contract does not render the immoral moral, or vice versa.

[Natapoc]

How courageous. I guess you're an anarchist then, taxation, government bother you while you glorify chaos and violence. Well whatever your position, its based on nothing but bravado, threat and bluster.

Phenia, Anarchists do not glorify chaos and violence. Anarchism is about creating non hierarchical, non coercive society where both individual rights and the rights of society are respected equally.

There are groups of people who call themselves anarchists who are not.

Anarchism is simply without rulers and does not imply chaos but rather non hierarchical organization.

[Arkinesia]

Isn't Obama on his tour in Asia?

They were unable to get the votes without amending the bill so it must go through the senate again.
And it is likely going to be subject to a filibuster again.

He decided the world's largest Muslim country's undying gratitude wasn't worth it, and wanted to make impassioned speeches about healthcare instead.

On another forum I saw someone post this and I rather agree with his sentiments.

I was also pointing out that the people pushing this bill believe that a woman can choose to have an abortion 'because it's her body' but I'm not allowed to choose whether or not to have healthcare coverage. Whether I choose to take care of myself or not is my business 'because it's my body.'

[Phenia]

The mandate renders the social contract void

Does that mean you now think it's OK to murder? Or are you not tearing that part of the social contract up.

A social contract does not render the immoral moral, or vice versa.

No, but it establishes order. Without it, there is nothing except my morals preventing me from causing disorder (for example by murdering people).

When I said "OK" I more meant 'acceptable to you as a resulting consequence of the supposedly nullified social contract' rather than an ethical agreement with murder.

[Nordicus]

On another forum I saw someone post this and I rather agree with his sentiments.

I was also pointing out that the people pushing this bill believe that a woman can choose to have an abortion 'because it's her body' but I'm not allowed to choose whether or not to have healthcare coverage. Whether I choose to take care of myself or not is my business 'because it's my body.'

A woman having an abortion doesn't affect anyone but her, the fetus, and her mate. A person not having insurance, in the event of a major medical accident, indirectly affects everyone else by running up a lot of health care costs which don't get paid, translating into higher prices for everyone else.