China bans religion for it's 90 million party members

[Risottia]

China bans religion... for Party members.

This is going to go down fine, Party members are easier for the Party to repress, since they're subject to the Party's disciplinary apparatuses as well as the normal state security apparatus. If you're expecting another revolution, think again. It's unpleasant, but not unusual.

Basically this.
Furthermore, hey, if you don't like the Party's rules, you can always leave it.

[Sovaal]

because religion has a tendency to lead to oppression, irrationality, and fanaticism in society

"Religion leads to oppression, irrationality, and fanaticism, so I approve of irrationally and fanatically oppressing believers"

How to sum up IM's beliefs in one sentence.

[Hyggemata]

Historically, China as an bureaucratic, authoritarian state, has never welcomed organized religion. While the government has never sought to impose any kind of religion on people, there have been large-scale persecutions against religious groups that have become powerful enough to threaten the stability of the state. In the 400s, 500s, and 800s Buddhism was persecuted: monks and nuns were forced to renounce their religious commitments and return to secular life, and their establishments were dissolved. However, these persecutions were sporadic and short-lived; as soon as the emperor who supported it died, his successor might immediately reverse these policies or at least repeal the ban on a certain religion. China also had several episodes of state-sponsored Buddhism; most famously, in the Northern Wei dynasty (400s and 500s), clientelism reached such heights that the (alleged) tallest building in the world was erected in 510 dedicated to Buddhism (the Yong-ning Pagoda, 147m).

What should b emphasized is that China never regulated what you think in your head (by establishing a state religion with mandatory membership). Confucianism is endorsed as the state/political ideology, but not as a religion. You were not required to go to Confucius' shrine to worship him, especially as a god; in fact, Confucius is remembered as a patron of state secularism, as one of the oft-cited passages of the Analects read, "Confucius does not speak about monsters, paranormal forces, disorder, and gods." Persecution of organized religion often was legitimized by Confucius' secularism, in order to purge the state of ideological enemies that debase the importance of the emperor and his government.

[The Islands of Versilia]

I hope this turns out well for them, because I support this.
Now, they just have to remove foreign faiths and increase Nationalism and it'll be even better.

[Frank Zipper]

I am not a fan of religion, but I dislike rules like this intensely. Freedom of (and from) religion is one of humankind's best ideas.

This still doesn't seem as bad to me as the Saudi Arabian Royal decree from the interior ministry that declared all atheists to be terrorists.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 28389.html

[Infected Mushroom]

because religion has a tendency to lead to oppression, irrationality, and fanaticism in society

"Religion leads to oppression, irrationality, and fanaticism, so I approve of irrationally and fanatically oppressing believers"

Its not really oppression, just a form of social engineering for the greater good.

[Minoa]

China bans religion... for Party members.

This is going to go down fine, Party members are easier for the Party to repress, since they're subject to the Party's disciplinary apparatuses as well as the normal state security apparatus. If you're expecting another revolution, think again. It's unpleasant, but not unusual.

Basically this.
Furthermore, hey, if you don't like the Party's rules, you can always leave it.

I don't know if they let one just leave the party without serious repercussions.

[Constantinopolis]

This is a symbolic re-affirmation of something that was already official policy within the Party. It simply wasn't enforced very much, and it probably won't be enforced much from now on, either.

Nothing has actually changed.

[Bombadil]

Basically this.
Furthermore, hey, if you don't like the Party's rules, you can always leave it.

I don't know if they let one just leave the party without serious repercussions.

You can, party membership comes with some advantages but it's not a necessity as evidenced that most people aren't members. Membership is a kind of privilege in that you need to submit to checks but you're fine to leave.

I mean, this religion ban.. it's really based around the fact that there's a Congress coming up, and China will throttle Internet, issue edicts and generally let people know that now's not the time to stir up trouble.

Beyond that, China is fairly equal in what it clamps down on, if it's seen as a threat to the party it's clamped down upon, basically any 'movement' that is growing in influence or effect is halted, hence images likening Xi Jinping to Winnie the Pooh. A few years ago when it was rumoured Jiang Zhemin had died they shut off the characters for his name, meaning no one could search for river (Jiang) and get any results.. bizarre really.

EDIT: man, I had to edit out spelling errors there, and English ones to boot..

[Infected Mushroom]

This is a symbolic re-affirmation of something that was already official policy within the Party. It simply wasn't enforced very much, and it probably won't be enforced much from now on, either.

Nothing has actually changed.

personally I'm hoping to see increased enforcement this time around

it makes sense too, if you're going to join an atheistic political party, you've got to be atheistic

[Hurdergaryp]

OP used The Daily Caller as his source, which is not exactly one of the more distinguished news outlets. Hell, I never even heard of the site before I stumbled upon this thread.

My first choice of source was The Times but they had a pay wall.

Christian Post
Patheos
India Times

Always good to have a variety of sources. Given how party membership comes with advantages in the People's Republic of China, it is actually reasonable of the Party to make certain demands. That's kinda how membership works, after all.

[Ethel mermania]

My first choice of source was The Times but they had a pay wall.

Christian Post
Patheos
India Times

Always good to have a variety of sources. Given how party membership comes with advantages in the People's Republic of China, it is actually reasonable of the Party to make certain demands. That's kinda how membership works, after all.

As long as we remember freedom is not high up on the governments priority list, sure.

[Krasny-Volny]

People always tell me that China is the most atheist country on Earth, and cite some official PRC state statistics about how something 70% of the population is irreligious.

Which I feel is wholly and utterly inaccurate. I have a strong suspicion that outside the major urban centers the mainland Chinese people simply do not discuss or practice their religion publicly because of discrimination in civic life, including many party members. Saying you have no religion is the easiest answer to give if you have a state job and want to get promoted.

[The Ninja5 Empire]

Is this another attempt by Xi Jinping to "discipline" his employees and make it look like he's fighting corruption?

[Hurdergaryp]

Always good to have a variety of sources. Given how party membership comes with advantages in the People's Republic of China, it is actually reasonable of the Party to make certain demands. That's kinda how membership works, after all.

As long as we remember freedom is not high up on the governments priority list, sure.

True, but at least they are truly dedicated to the separation of religion and state.

[Alvecia]

I wonder how hard they'll actually enforce this kind of thing. Atheist in name only?

[Costa Fierro]

So yeah I'm sure that's going to do WONDERS for national stability, another revolution when?
Seriously this is NOT going to go down well.

This is China. They have a virtually omnipresent mass surveillance system and an internal security apparatus that receives a bigger budget than the military. Not only that, it's limited to Communist Party members, who total 90 million in a country with over a billion people.

Nothing is going to happen in regards to this.

[Ethel mermania]

As long as we remember freedom is not high up on the governments priority list, sure.

True, but at least they are truly dedicated to the separation of religion and state.

That is one way to look at it,

Tbh, while I like western liberal democracy. It is not the only legitimate form of government out there. So I don't object to them doing this.

But yes it is discrimination against religion.

[Hurdergaryp]

So yeah I'm sure that's going to do WONDERS for national stability, another revolution when?
Seriously this is NOT going to go down well.

This is China. They have a virtually omnipresent mass surveillance system and an internal security apparatus that receives a bigger budget than the military. Not only that, it's limited to Communist Party members, who total 90 million in a country with over a billion people.

Nothing is going to happen in regards to this.

There's no power without control, as the saying goes. The authorities in the People's Republic of China understand this very well.

[Ethel mermania]

This is China. They have a virtually omnipresent mass surveillance system and an internal security apparatus that receives a bigger budget than the military. Not only that, it's limited to Communist Party members, who total 90 million in a country with over a billion people.

Nothing is going to happen in regards to this.

There's no power without control, as the saying goes. The authorities in the People's Republic of China understand this very well.

The PRC is what happens when you send communists to the London and Harvard schools of economics.

[Arctica-Aleutia]

You know, given the the Party's stance on religion I can see them telling their members not to speak out for religion. I don't think they're going to change their stance there.

However, praying in private doesn't effect a Party member's effectiveness in whatever position they have. If they're not going to be allowed to support religion openly, fine, but they should be allowed to keep their beliefs in private.

If anything, trying to outlaw religion just makes religious people feel more wronged, and thus makes religious unrest more likely.

And even if it wasn't a violation of human rights, which it is, it probably wouldn't reduce religiousness by much. It might make people less open about their beliefs in public or claim to be atheist, but a law isn't going to change what people believe.

I think China should be less actively against religion because it would improve human rights, but also because it would make them seem more favorable to other countries, and gain support for its government amongst its citizens and maybe even internationally.


The way I wrote all that probably ended up being awkward, and I'm not an expert on China. I don't know, maybe I shouldn't be writing here. Maybe I'm just insecure about my writing or what I think or something.

[United Muscovite Nations]

And why is that necessarily a good thing?

imnottryingtostartanargumentpleasedontkillme

because religion has a tendency to lead to oppression, irrationality, and fanaticism in society

This, coming from the man who thinks that dogs and suits should be banned.

[Kubra]

this is simply making unofficial policy official.
You ain't gonna advance in the party if you're religious in the 1st place.

[The Alexanderians]

So...like what they've done since inception?

[Washington Resistance Army]

So...like what they've done since inception?

Pretty much. I doubt much will change.