NationStates

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:I'm no fan of the Trump administration, but a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Galloism wrote:Wow, this Vice article is especially bad, even by Vice standards, and that's an impressively low bar to limbo under.

Nyndrellen wrote:

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:I'm no fan of the Trump administration, but a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Reading your post is actually one of the only times I've had a perceivably bad emotional reaction to their antics.

"Yuck" is all I can really say about this.

Galloism wrote:Wow, this Vice article is especially bad, even by Vice standards, and that's an impressively low bar to limbo under.

Dushan wrote:

Galloism wrote:Wow, this Vice article is especially bad, even by Vice standards, and that's an impressively low bar to limbo under.

I remember the times when VICE was actually somewhat avantgarde and ran some decent and interesting articles.

Galloism wrote:

Nyndrellen wrote:
Reading your post is actually one of the only times I've had a perceivably bad emotional reaction to their antics.

"Yuck" is all I can really say about this.

What in particular is yuck?

I mean, they haven't even done anything yet as far as I can tell, other than announce "we're going to talk to various interested parties and advocacy groups".

Nyndrellen wrote:

Galloism wrote:What in particular is yuck?

I mean, they haven't even done anything yet as far as I can tell, other than announce "we're going to talk to various interested parties and advocacy groups".

A group that doxxes women who accused someone of rape and had their case dismissed by campus authority being included as an advocacy group on talks about how sexual assault affects people evokes my natural disgust reaction. Hence, yuck.

Senkaku wrote:Given that she's also doing stuff like this, I doubt this is somehow out of some goodhearted attempt to try and protect men who are falsely accused (or men who are raped) and more about the Trump administration generally trying to fuck women over.

Thus, across the disparate populations studied, researchers consistently have found that approximately one-half of all sexual assaults are committed by men who have been drinking alcohol. Depending on the sample studied and the measures used, the estimates for alcohol use among perpetrators have ranged from 34 to 74 percent (Abbey et al. 1994; Crowell and Burgess 1996). Similarly, approximately one-half of all sexual assault victims report that they were drinking alcohol at the time of the assault, with estimates ranging from 30 to 79 percent (Abbey et al. 1994; Crowell and Burgess 1996). It is important to emphasize, however, that although a woman’s alcohol consumption may place her at increased risk of sexual assault, she is in no way responsible for the assault. The perpetrators are legally and morally responsible for their behavior.

Finally, alcohol consumption by perpetrators and victims tends to co-occur that is, when one of them is drinking, the other one is generally drinking as well (Abbey et al. 1998; Harrington and Leitenberg 1994). Rarely is only the victim drinking alcohol. This finding is not surprising, because in social situations (e.g., in bars or at parties), drinking tends to be a shared activity. However, this finding complicates researchers’ efforts to disentangle the unique effects of alcohol consumption on the perpetrators’ versus the victims’ behavior.

Galloism wrote:

Nyndrellen wrote:A group that doxxes women who accused someone of rape and had their case dismissed by campus authority being included as an advocacy group on talks about how sexual assault affects people evokes my natural disgust reaction. Hence, yuck.

That's a little distasteful, sure. It's about as distasteful as what the media does to any man who has ever been accused of anything ever, but I'll agree it's distasteful.

Nyndrellen wrote:

Galloism wrote:That's a little distasteful, sure. It's about as distasteful as what the media does to any man who has ever been accused of anything ever, but I'll agree it's distasteful.

Lynchmobbing in general is gross, yeah.

Although I didn't understand exactly which of the two things you consider a 'little distasteful'; the group that doxxes women who had their case dismissed and regularly posts articles like 'Why Feminism is Killing The Family', or the administration that is apparently going to give them a platform and a crowd to listen to them. I'd be hard-pressed to think why the latter is just a 'little' distasteful but I can understand why someone would say it, but attributing that to the former is downplaying it immensely.

Galloism wrote:

Nyndrellen wrote:
Lynchmobbing in general is gross, yeah.

Although I didn't understand exactly which of the two things you consider a 'little distasteful'; the group that doxxes women who had their case dismissed and regularly posts articles like 'Why Feminism is Killing The Family', or the administration that is apparently going to give them a platform and a crowd to listen to them. I'd be hard-pressed to think why the latter is just a 'little' distasteful but I can understand why someone would say it, but attributing that to the former is downplaying it immensely.

NCFM is somewhat distasteful. So is Know your IX, which is also being given a voice. The former posts "false accusers" with less than adequate evidence of such (which is reminiscent of the Dear Colleague Letter recommendations, except targeting the other party), while the latter directly protects rapists who happen to be female by spreading knowingly false information regarding perpetration and victimization. They're both distasteful.

I don't know a lot about NWLC and ERoC.

Galloism wrote:
The problem is that they make the classic mistake: if a man and woman are equally drunk and have sex, he raped her.

Because penis.

Senkaku wrote:

Galloism wrote:
The problem is that they make the classic mistake: if a man and woman are equally drunk and have sex, he raped her.

Because penis.

It's funny, I used to think you were perhaps the only MRA type on NSG with a sense of moderation and sensibility- now we appear to be suggesting that it's unfair to accuse people of rape if both parties to an act were drunk? Hopefully if I'm dating some fuckboi in college he won't have a similar mindset.

Nyndrellen wrote:

Galloism wrote:NCFM is somewhat distasteful. So is Know your IX, which is also being given a voice. The former posts "false accusers" with less than adequate evidence of such (which is reminiscent of the Dear Colleague Letter recommendations, except targeting the other party), while the latter directly protects rapists who happen to be female by spreading knowingly false information regarding perpetration and victimization. They're both distasteful.

I don't know a lot about NWLC and ERoC.

This was a pretty good exercise on how you can make doxxing look better and run-of-the-mill political misinformation look worse through wording. It didn't really make me think anything else other than that and I don't really know if this is going anywhere.

Galloism wrote:

Senkaku wrote:It's funny, I used to think you were perhaps the only MRA type on NSG with a sense of moderation and sensibility- now we appear to be suggesting that it's unfair to accuse people of rape if both parties to an act were drunk? Hopefully if I'm dating some fuckboi in college he won't have a similar mindset.

If two people drunkenly have sex with each other at a similar level of drunkenness, either both raped the other or rape didn't occur for lack of mens rea on the part of either party.

You can't say "that one has a penis, so he's responsible".

That's a blatantly sexist position.

Senkaku wrote:

Galloism wrote:If two people drunkenly have sex with each other at a similar level of drunkenness, either both raped the other or rape didn't occur for lack of mens rea on the part of either party.

You can't say "that one has a penis, so he's responsible".

That's a blatantly sexist position.

You know, I've never heard a girl (or a male bottom) who got raped at a party or something ever say anything to that end.

Usually it's something along the lines of "he held me down", but whatever floats your bullshit boat, I guess. It's quite unfortunate, because false accusers and men being trapped in abusive relationships and the like are all issues that deserved concerned advocates, not ones who tell rape victims "well you were drunk, so it's as much your fault as it was his." It's a damn slippery slope from there to whipping out tape measures to check a girl's skirt when she comes in for a rape kit. Sadly, it seems quite typical in every MRA type I've encountered on NS, and now you too.

To quote the President- Sad!

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/qvpz4q/betsy-devos-to-meet-with-mens-rights-groups-reports-say?utm_source=broadlytwitterus

Now I'm no fan of the Trump administration, but a stopped clock is right twice a day. It's time we stopped stacking the deck against MRAs and gave them a real hearing.

As for campus rape, people aren't even going to need to see a conviction to jump to conclusions. The public will be oh-so-sure of themselves the accused is guilty, even thought the public has been wrong about such cases before. Why not just protect the identities of the accused, at least until the trial is over?

Is it to make other accusers come forward? Because quite frankly, we've no way of knowing whether or not they're copycat accusers anyway.

Without a false rape accusation being as life-ruining, the legal system will no longer need to apply scrutiny as intense to the accuser, and there will be more incentive to come forward anyway.

Calladan wrote:So would this apply to ALL accused rapists, or just the rich white ones?

Senkaku wrote:It's funny, I used to think you were perhaps the only MRA type on NSG with a sense of moderation and sensibility- now we appear to be suggesting that it's unfair to accuse men of rape if both parties to an act were drunk?