NATION

PASSWORD

Betsy DeVos to meet with MRAs

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:44 pm

Galloism wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:"Rejecting women" (in this context, celibacy) and "being a homosexual male" are not the same thing. And indeed, many high society types who have retained a modicum of fame either were gay or rumoured to be such. The enforcement of anti-homosexuality in the UK has been extremely classist, right up to and indeed beyond its partial and eventual total decriminalisation.
If you reject women because of your perceived treatment by women, and/or how you worry women might "treat" you in future, you are a bad person with irrational concerns.

Eh, I'm not sure it's an irrational concern. Overblown perhaps, but not per se irrational.

Keep in mind - women abuse their partners at roughly equal rates to men, but men are arrested for being abused, and no one will believe them. Almost a million men are raped by their partners each year, but people by and large side with their rapists. Women, like men, also sabotage birth control to "trap" their partners into this abusive relationship - except women have the social freedom to leave, while men are socially shamed and told to "man up".

And if any of this abuse or rape results in a child, holy shit are you fucked. The state will require you to support your abusive rapist partner for 18 years. If you don't stay and endure the beatings, you're alternatively awful for leaving your abuser or leaving your child in the hands of your abuser. Oh, and if you try to get your child away from your abuser, you probably are viewed as being the abuser. Therefore, your chances of success are slim and you'll be vilified in any case.

Overblown? Perhaps. Irrational? Not a chance. They decided it wasn't worth the risk. I disagree, but that's their choice.

Much like political lesbianism, which has similar motivations (except without the state sponsored reinforcement of abuse).

In case you're not familiar with political lesbians, they are straight women who "become gay" because they want to reject men.

Being told to man up after facing trauma is indeed, the causation of a culture that enforces toxic masculinity and toxic femininity. None of these problems were caused by feminists, but by pre-set ideals that men are strong and cold and women are weak and warm, thus the judicial system often sides with either depending on the issue and the culture they live in.

Luckily, there are countries that don't have juries/judges deciding the sentences but pre-set laws to decide who gets what for which crimes, though these countries often have too low jail times to even feel like a punishment to a rapist of either sex.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19883
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:31 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:MGTOW is a rejection of women. "Being single" is just not being in a relationship.


MGTOW is a rejection of relationships and the societal expectations that come with them. Hell it's a rejection of societal expectations for men, it's a rejection of the idea that you have to live your life as determined by society whilst apparently living in an "individualistic" society.

If you reject women because of your perceived treatment by women, and/or how you worry women might "treat" you in future, you are a bad person with irrational concerns.


How is it bad to take steps to protect yourself? Men know that the odds are staked against them in relationships and in marriage. The only way to win is to not play the game at all.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:45 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:MGTOW is a rejection of women. "Being single" is just not being in a relationship.


MGTOW is a rejection of relationships and the societal expectations that come with them. Hell it's a rejection of societal expectations for men, it's a rejection of the idea that you have to live your life as determined by society whilst apparently living in an "individualistic" society.

If you reject women because of your perceived treatment by women, and/or how you worry women might "treat" you in future, you are a bad person with irrational concerns.


How is it bad to take steps to protect yourself? Men know that the odds are staked against them in relationships and in marriage. The only way to win is to not play the game at all.

MGTOW is very irrational, childish and cringy, but there's plenty of organisations like that. I feel like it's human nature to feel like a victim for pretty much anything.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19883
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:24 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
MGTOW is a rejection of relationships and the societal expectations that come with them. Hell it's a rejection of societal expectations for men, it's a rejection of the idea that you have to live your life as determined by society whilst apparently living in an "individualistic" society.



How is it bad to take steps to protect yourself? Men know that the odds are staked against them in relationships and in marriage. The only way to win is to not play the game at all.

MGTOW is very irrational, childish and cringy, but there's plenty of organisations like that. I feel like it's human nature to feel like a victim for pretty much anything.


It's not irrational, it's not childish and it's not cringy. And it's not "feeling like a victim", because we're not victims.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:30 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:MGTOW is very irrational, childish and cringy, but there's plenty of organisations like that. I feel like it's human nature to feel like a victim for pretty much anything.


It's not irrational, it's not childish and it's not cringy. And it's not "feeling like a victim", because we're not victims.

It is all those things. It's simply people who prefer being single, nothing more. They just decided to come up with an edgy name for it.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19883
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:38 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
It's not irrational, it's not childish and it's not cringy. And it's not "feeling like a victim", because we're not victims.

It is all those things. It's simply people who prefer being single, nothing more. They just decided to come up with an edgy name for it.


So explain why it's all those things if it is people who prefer being single?
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:41 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:It is all those things. It's simply people who prefer being single, nothing more. They just decided to come up with an edgy name for it.


So explain why it's all those things if it is people who prefer being single?

Because they believed they needed an edgy word and a community around it, and often MGTOW fellas claim it's for self-protection or whatever the fuck
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19883
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:02 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
So explain why it's all those things if it is people who prefer being single?

Because they believed they needed an edgy word and a community around it, and often MGTOW fellas claim it's for self-protection or whatever the fuck


You haven't actually explained why it's edgy or irrational or childish or cringy.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:04 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Because they believed they needed an edgy word and a community around it, and often MGTOW fellas claim it's for self-protection or whatever the fuck


You haven't actually explained why it's edgy or irrational or childish or cringy.

It is edgy to come up with weird names for terms that already exist, it's irrational to act like it needs a community, and it's members are absolutely, completely full of cringe.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19883
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:10 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
You haven't actually explained why it's edgy or irrational or childish or cringy.

It is edgy to come up with weird names for terms that already exist, it's irrational to act like it needs a community, and it's members are absolutely, completely full of cringe.


What terms already exist? Why is it irrational to act like a community? What's cringy about it's members?
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:13 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:It is edgy to come up with weird names for terms that already exist, it's irrational to act like it needs a community, and it's members are absolutely, completely full of cringe.


What terms already exist? Why is it irrational to act like a community? What's cringy about it's members?

Being single by choice. It's irrational to act like it's a necessity. Also, go take a look at the MGTOW reddit or the official page. I couldn't go for 2 minutes before having to leave.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19883
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:17 am

Kvatchdom wrote:Being single by choice. It's irrational to act like it's a necessity.


What's irrational about being single by choice? It is a necessary choice.

Also, go take a look at the MGTOW reddit or the official page. I couldn't go for 2 minutes before having to leave.


Why?
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:18 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Being single by choice. It's irrational to act like it's a necessity.


What's irrational about being single by choice? It is a necessary choice.

Also, go take a look at the MGTOW reddit or the official page. I couldn't go for 2 minutes before having to leave.


Why?

No, it's weird and unnatural.

"Women suck"
"Why I hate women"
"Look at my sword collection"
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72174
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:20 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
What's irrational about being single by choice? It is a necessary choice.



Why?

No, it's weird and unnatural.

"Women suck"
"Why I hate women"
"Look at my sword collection"

Hey, don't be knocking the sword collections. Swords are cool.

*guards sword collection*
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:22 am

Galloism wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:No, it's weird and unnatural.

"Women suck"
"Why I hate women"
"Look at my sword collection"

Hey, don't be knocking the sword collections. Swords are cool.

*guards sword collection*

Yeah but seeing that among "I hate woman gr >:( " is just so ironic. I had a few but lost em while moving
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19883
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:28 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
What's irrational about being single by choice? It is a necessary choice.



Why?

No, it's weird and unnatural.

"Women suck"
"Why I hate women"
"Look at my sword collection"


Why is it weird and unnatural?
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:38 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:No, it's weird and unnatural.

"Women suck"
"Why I hate women"
"Look at my sword collection"


Why is it weird and unnatural?

Why is being single by choice necessary? Whenever I see MGTOWs or incels, it just seems like an excuse for them to say weird shit like "women are psychologically evil and secretly hate me specifically" or whatever.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19883
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:38 am

Kvatchdom wrote:Why is being single by choice necessary? Whenever I see MGTOWs or incels, it just seems like an excuse for them to say weird shit like "women are psychologically evil and secretly hate me specifically" or whatever.


Answer the question.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:40 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Why is being single by choice necessary? Whenever I see MGTOWs or incels, it just seems like an excuse for them to say weird shit like "women are psychologically evil and secretly hate me specifically" or whatever.


Answer the question.

It is weird to hate women, and it is unnatural to act like it matters. Your turn.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19883
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:45 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
Answer the question.

It is weird to hate women, and it is unnatural to act like it matters. Your turn.


You still haven't answered my question. Why? Why is it weird? Why is it unnatural?
Last edited by Costa Fierro on Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8111
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:48 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:It is weird to hate women, and it is unnatural to act like it matters. Your turn.


You still haven't answered my question. Why? Why is it weird? Why is it unnatural?

Because you have no reason to be afraid of people you don't know.
boo
Left-wing nationalist, socialist, souverainist and anti-American.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72174
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:58 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Galloism wrote:Eh, I'm not sure it's an irrational concern. Overblown perhaps, but not per se irrational.

Keep in mind - women abuse their partners at roughly equal rates to men, but men are arrested for being abused, and no one will believe them. Almost a million men are raped by their partners each year, but people by and large side with their rapists. Women, like men, also sabotage birth control to "trap" their partners into this abusive relationship - except women have the social freedom to leave, while men are socially shamed and told to "man up".

And if any of this abuse or rape results in a child, holy shit are you fucked. The state will require you to support your abusive rapist partner for 18 years. If you don't stay and endure the beatings, you're alternatively awful for leaving your abuser or leaving your child in the hands of your abuser. Oh, and if you try to get your child away from your abuser, you probably are viewed as being the abuser. Therefore, your chances of success are slim and you'll be vilified in any case.

Overblown? Perhaps. Irrational? Not a chance. They decided it wasn't worth the risk. I disagree, but that's their choice.

Much like political lesbianism, which has similar motivations (except without the state sponsored reinforcement of abuse).

In case you're not familiar with political lesbians, they are straight women who "become gay" because they want to reject men.

Being told to man up after facing trauma is indeed, the causation of a culture that enforces toxic masculinity and toxic femininity. None of these problems were caused by feminists, but by pre-set ideals that men are strong and cold and women are weak and warm, thus the judicial system often sides with either depending on the issue and the culture they live in.

Luckily, there are countries that don't have juries/judges deciding the sentences but pre-set laws to decide who gets what for which crimes, though these countries often have too low jail times to even feel like a punishment to a rapist of either sex.

Even in countries where the laws are de jure equal, they are not enforced equally.

In the US, our domestic violence laws are de jure equal, but if a man calls police to beg and plead for help from his abusive wife (after overcoming all social pressure not to), he's more likely to be arrested than his abuser.

This is not true in the reverse.

And you're wrong, incidentally. The denial of men as victims of domestic violence IS caused by feminists. We never took it seriously (in fact, in middle England, a man beaten by his wife was punished by being forced to ride an animal facing backward while being pelted with fruit by the crowd), but we never had the wholesale denial until feminism stuck its nose in and decided that women only commit violence in self defense (where "he made me mad" is self-defense), Erin Pizzley was marginalized, maligned, and attacked (even being forced to flee the country), and the Duluth Model was pushed that defined domestic violence as patriarchal oppression.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72174
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:59 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
You still haven't answered my question. Why? Why is it weird? Why is it unnatural?

Because you have no reason to be afraid of people you don't know.

Coming from someone who claims to be a feminist, this just might be the most ironic shit ever.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57854
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:03 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
You still haven't answered my question. Why? Why is it weird? Why is it unnatural?

Because you have no reason to be afraid of people you don't know.


The unknown is famously calming.

Galloism wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Because you have no reason to be afraid of people you don't know.

Coming from someone who claims to be a feminist, this just might be the most ironic shit ever.


Idk. It's not just women ofcourse, but a bit of precaution and skepticism is probably a good idea.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72174
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:03 am

Kvatchdom wrote:
Galloism wrote:
There we go blaming men again.



By blaming the victims who already blame themselves enough they want to die.

It's also worth noting, and this has been cited repeatedly, women are the primary enforcers of the male gender role. Women are also the primary enforcers of the female gender role.

But, you know, it's masculinity that's toxic.


I'll tell you, blatant counterfactual sexism continually appearing when people are attempting to defend feminism, as a movement, never gets old.

Blaming the culture that enforces this stuff on men*
You seem to completely, either by choice or by just not reading properly, misunderstood my comment entirely. Society enforces these roles, not individual people.
Toxic masculinity is not masculinity, just as toxic femininity is not femininity. Come on, it's not hard to see what this comment means.

Atleast in Finland, about half of emergency calls to homes are domestic violence issues, and a large portion of murder is husbands stabbing their wife while both were drunk and arguing. I blame our alcohol and family culture for this, not men, or women.

Ignoring whole sections of arguments never gets old either.

I challenge you to find me a feminist political or activist organization that uses "toxic feminity" in a sentence.

And, incidentally, women killing their husbands may not be the severe minority we think it is. Women by and large get the benefit of every possible doubt in the legal system as suspects, so it's likely most women who murder their husbands just don't get charged.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dayganistan, Dazchan, Fartsniffage, Galloism, Gran Cordoba, Insaanistan, Kubra, Lysset, Pizza Friday Forever91, Rary, Shrillland, Spirit of Hope, The Jamesian Republic, The Reformed Union of Canada, Vivida Vis Animi

Advertisement

Remove ads