Political Perspective of Working-class White Americans

[Olerand]

Why are so many working-class whites so pavlovianly hostile to the Democrats? Because they support policies that would otherwise benefit them? Or because they support the Other more than them?

Perhaps because they support policies that are detrimental to me.

The working class white?

What policies might those be? Access to healthcare (even if not in the cheapest terms possible)? Better bargaining power in the market (even though their support for the unions nowadays is tepid at best)? Better pay, or better yet, just overtime pay?

What economic policies did the Democrats champion that were detrimental to you, a working-class white?

Industry has been in decline for a few decades now, regardless of what party controls the government. I live in Indiana, and in my experience people generally vote Republican for social and cultural reasons. The left is largely downright hostile to religion and traditionalism. I hold some views similar to the left, like being pro-refugee and anti-death penalty, but I lean to the right because the left usually opposes religion. While there are many people that are Republicans because of economic reasons, people that are extreme free-marketers tend to be Libertarian. Furthermore, many people vote Republican precisely because they don't want subsidies to be given out by the government. This seems cold-hearted to me, but if I'm given a choice between generic Democrat and generic Republican, I would probably pick the Republican. The choice comes down to: would you rather have a government that doesn't help your neighbors or would you rather have a government that spits on your grandparents' graves as it aggressively pushes for secularism and slanders your very faith and culture.

Thank you for your input. So it is the societal, wedge, angry-postings-on-Facebook issues that drive working class whites to vote for the Republicans.

Even as the Republicans slash Grandma's Medicare healthcare and her Medicaid nursing home.

Why are so many working-class whites so pavlovianly hostile to the Democrats? Because they support policies that would otherwise benefit them? Or because they support the Other more than them?

I live in a heavily religious area. In my experience, people are hostile to Democrats because Democrats are hostile to religion and traditionalism. If a party is hostile to us, we will not vote for them. There is no perfect party, so there is always going to be some of the "Other" factor, or the "anyone but them" phenomena.

So the Other. The liberal elites, the coasts, the cities. Not you.

So the issue is not economic, because then, objectively, the Democrats would be more supportive of you. But societal. They support the Other (who to you are the irreligious, the liberals, the atheists).

[Telconi]

Perhaps because they support policies that are detrimental to me.

The working class white?

What policies might those be? Access to healthcare (even if not in the cheapest terms possible)? Better bargaining power in the market (even though their support for the unions nowadays is tepid at best)? Better pay, or better yet, just overtime pay?

What economic policies did the Democrats champion that were detrimental to you, a working-class white?

Industry has been in decline for a few decades now, regardless of what party controls the government. I live in Indiana, and in my experience people generally vote Republican for social and cultural reasons. The left is largely downright hostile to religion and traditionalism. I hold some views similar to the left, like being pro-refugee and anti-death penalty, but I lean to the right because the left usually opposes religion. While there are many people that are Republicans because of economic reasons, people that are extreme free-marketers tend to be Libertarian. Furthermore, many people vote Republican precisely because they don't want subsidies to be given out by the government. This seems cold-hearted to me, but if I'm given a choice between generic Democrat and generic Republican, I would probably pick the Republican. The choice comes down to: would you rather have a government that doesn't help your neighbors or would you rather have a government that spits on your grandparents' graves as it aggressively pushes for secularism and slanders your very faith and culture.

Thank you for your input. So it is the societal, wedge, angry-postings-on-Facebook issues that drive working class whites to vote for the Republicans.

Even as the Republicans slash Grandma's Medicare healthcare and her Medicaid nursing home.

I live in a heavily religious area. In my experience, people are hostile to Democrats because Democrats are hostile to religion and traditionalism. If a party is hostile to us, we will not vote for them. There is no perfect party, so there is always going to be some of the "Other" factor, or the "anyone but them" phenomena.

So the Other. The liberal elites, the coasts, the cities. Not you.

So the issue is not economic, because then, objectively, the Democrats would be more supportive of you. But societal. They support the Other (who to you are the irreligious, the liberals, the atheists).

It isn't so much that they "support the 'Other'" as that they oppose us. Economically, I'd probably fare better under a Democrat government, but, I'm not willing to pay the price they ask for economic benefit.

[Olerand]

The working class white?

What policies might those be? Access to healthcare (even if not in the cheapest terms possible)? Better bargaining power in the market (even though their support for the unions nowadays is tepid at best)? Better pay, or better yet, just overtime pay?

What economic policies did the Democrats champion that were detrimental to you, a working-class white?


Thank you for your input. So it is the societal, wedge, angry-postings-on-Facebook issues that drive working class whites to vote for the Republicans.

Even as the Republicans slash Grandma's Medicare healthcare and her Medicaid nursing home.


So the Other. The liberal elites, the coasts, the cities. Not you.

So the issue is not economic, because then, objectively, the Democrats would be more supportive of you. But societal. They support the Other (who to you are the irreligious, the liberals, the atheists).

It isn't so much that they "support the 'Other'" as that they oppose us. Economically, I'd probably fare better under a Democrat government, but, I'm not willing to pay the price they ask for economic benefit.

Support the Other, oppose us, two sides of the same coin.

Economically, the Democrats are best. But on these wedge issues, on these Facebook rants, they aren't with "you". And that's why you vote against them, and for a party that harms you and little old grandma, but at least respects grandma's right to pray at the courthouse.

[Telconi]

It isn't so much that they "support the 'Other'" as that they oppose us. Economically, I'd probably fare better under a Democrat government, but, I'm not willing to pay the price they ask for economic benefit.

Support the Other, oppose us, two sides of the same coin.

Economically, the Democrats are best. But on these wedge issues, on these Facebook rants, they aren't with "you". And that's why you vote against them, and for a party that harms you and little old grandma, but at least respects grandma's right to pray at the courthouse.

If you want to be that asinine about it, sure.

[Olerand]

Support the Other, oppose us, two sides of the same coin.

Economically, the Democrats are best. But on these wedge issues, on these Facebook rants, they aren't with "you". And that's why you vote against them, and for a party that harms you and little old grandma, but at least respects grandma's right to pray at the courthouse.

If you want to be that asinine about it, sure.

I'm not being asinine, I'm just going down to the root cause.

The Democrats support the Other, societally, and that is why working class whites do not like them. So they vote for the Republicans, who "support" them, but not their overtime pay or family's access to healthcare.

Ironic choices, ironic options indeed.

[Telconi]

If you want to be that asinine about it, sure.

I'm not being asinine, I'm just going down to the root cause.

The Democrats support the Other, societally, and that is why working class whites do not like them. So they vote for the Republicans, who "support" them, but not their overtime pay or family's access to healthcare.

Ironic choices, ironic options indeed.

No, you're actively projecting misunderstood ideas onto the actual people who understand them. You're actively resisting a true knowledge of the root cause.

[Nouveau Yathrib]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/10/us/politics/politics-religion-liberal-william-barber.html

I'm personally non-religious, but I find myself agreeing with the religious left on some issues and would like to see religious progressives become more active in the Democratic coalition. I absolutely detest the Religious Right but also hate how militantly secular/atheist the progressive establishment can be.

Issues on which the religious left is at odds with Democratic doctrine include military spending and the death penalty, though the most polarizing is abortion — the main barrier, for many liberal evangelicals and Catholics, to voting as Democrats — as could be seen when the party split recently over whether to endorse an anti-abortion Democrat running for mayor of Omaha.

Setting abortion aside, political appeals based on religious beliefs continue to carry risk for Democrats, given the growing numbers of Americans who claim no religion: Secular voters overwhelmingly vote Democratic, and younger voters are far more secular than older voters.

Still, Hillary Clinton’s snub of even moderate evangelicals in the 2016 presidential race squandered many opportunities to cut into Mr. Trump’s support. Where Barack Obama had worked hard in 2008 to show he would at least listen to evangelicals, Mrs. Clinton rebuffed interview requests from evangelical media outlets and signaled leftward moves on abortion rights that helped many conservative voters overcome their doubts about Mr. Trump.

“The fact that one party has strategically used and abused religion, while the other has had a habitually allergic and negative response to religion per se, puts our side in a more difficult position in regard to political influence,” said the Rev. Jim Wallis, the evangelical social justice advocate who founded the Sojourners community and magazine in 1971.

“Most progressive religious leaders I talk to, almost all of them, feel dissed by the left,” he said. “The left is really controlled by a lot of secular fundamentalists.”

[Hakons]

Perhaps because they support policies that are detrimental to me.

The working class white?

What policies might those be? Access to healthcare (even if not in the cheapest terms possible)? Better bargaining power in the market (even though their support for the unions nowadays is tepid at best)? Better pay, or better yet, just overtime pay?

What economic policies did the Democrats champion that were detrimental to you, a working-class white?

Industry has been in decline for a few decades now, regardless of what party controls the government. I live in Indiana, and in my experience people generally vote Republican for social and cultural reasons. The left is largely downright hostile to religion and traditionalism. I hold some views similar to the left, like being pro-refugee and anti-death penalty, but I lean to the right because the left usually opposes religion. While there are many people that are Republicans because of economic reasons, people that are extreme free-marketers tend to be Libertarian. Furthermore, many people vote Republican precisely because they don't want subsidies to be given out by the government. This seems cold-hearted to me, but if I'm given a choice between generic Democrat and generic Republican, I would probably pick the Republican. The choice comes down to: would you rather have a government that doesn't help your neighbors or would you rather have a government that spits on your grandparents' graves as it aggressively pushes for secularism and slanders your very faith and culture.

Thank you for your input. So it is the societal, wedge, angry-postings-on-Facebook issues that drive working class whites to vote for the Republicans.

Even as the Republicans slash Grandma's Medicare healthcare and her Medicaid nursing home.

I live in a heavily religious area. In my experience, people are hostile to Democrats because Democrats are hostile to religion and traditionalism. If a party is hostile to us, we will not vote for them. There is no perfect party, so there is always going to be some of the "Other" factor, or the "anyone but them" phenomena.

So the Other. The liberal elites, the coasts, the cities. Not you.

So the issue is not economic, because then, objectively, the Democrats would be more supportive of you. But societal. They support the Other (who to you are the irreligious, the liberals, the atheists).

I'm speaking for myself, but people in my area that are religious tend lean right. So yes, we largely don't vote Democrat because many Democrats are irreligious. I don't see anything wrong with refusing to vote for people who are contrary to my core beliefs.

As for the Grandma part, most Grandparents voted Republican, largely because of what I outlined. I wish Republicans were more open to providing healthcare, but I can't vote for a party that seeks to constantly decrease the power of the Church and religion. Because Grandparents are largely religious, older folks vote Republican because Republicans tend to support religion while Democrats tend to undermine religion. While the Republican party is in no way the "Christian Party," they are at least friendly to Christianity, as opposed to the Democrats who have shown they prefer to secularize society and hold many positions that are contrary to Church positions.

[Olerand]

I'm not being asinine, I'm just going down to the root cause.

The Democrats support the Other, societally, and that is why working class whites do not like them. So they vote for the Republicans, who "support" them, but not their overtime pay or family's access to healthcare.

Ironic choices, ironic options indeed.

No, you're actively projecting misunderstood ideas onto the actual people who understand them. You're actively resisting a true knowledge of the root cause.

How so? You said that you oppose the Democrats because they oppose you. I suggested them opposing you, and them supporting the Other are two sides of the same coin.

You agreed, but called it asinine. Not wrong, but asinine. I believe it is correct (as you acknowledged), and not asinine.
The discussion is now is this asinine or not, and at this point, we are at subjective difference of appreciation and our issue cannot be resolved, so we best drop it.

[Olerand]

The working class white?

What policies might those be? Access to healthcare (even if not in the cheapest terms possible)? Better bargaining power in the market (even though their support for the unions nowadays is tepid at best)? Better pay, or better yet, just overtime pay?

What economic policies did the Democrats champion that were detrimental to you, a working-class white?


Thank you for your input. So it is the societal, wedge, angry-postings-on-Facebook issues that drive working class whites to vote for the Republicans.

Even as the Republicans slash Grandma's Medicare healthcare and her Medicaid nursing home.


So the Other. The liberal elites, the coasts, the cities. Not you.

So the issue is not economic, because then, objectively, the Democrats would be more supportive of you. But societal. They support the Other (who to you are the irreligious, the liberals, the atheists).

I'm speaking for myself, but people in my area that are religious tend lean right. So yes, we largely don't vote Democrat because many Democrats are irreligious. I don't see anything wrong with refusing to vote for people who are contrary to my core beliefs.

As for the Grandma part, most Grandparents voted Republican, largely because of what I outlined. I wish Republicans were more open to providing healthcare, but I can't vote for a party that seeks to constantly decrease the power of the Church and religion. Because Grandparents are largely religious, older folks vote Republican because Republicans tend to support religion while Democrats tend to undermine religion. While the Republican party is in no way the "Christian Party," they are at least friendly to Christianity, as opposed to the Democrats who have shown they prefer to secularize society and hold many positions that are contrary to Church positions.

So you oppose the Democrats on societal and cultural grounds, even as you know that economically they would be best for you. I don't doubt that Democrats' condescending irreligiousity can be irritating to the religious, but I fail to see how voting for the "religious" Republicans who will cut your grandmother's nursing home money is any more... Christian to be frank.

So, like I said, ironic choices, ironic options.

[Lowell Leber]

I would say, as someone from this class and suppportive of the Alt-Right, that the biggest driving force behind this movement is cultural traditionalism. People value their nation and it's culture. and it angers them when you try and supplant it with no culture or inferior cultures.

[Hakons]

It isn't so much that they "support the 'Other'" as that they oppose us. Economically, I'd probably fare better under a Democrat government, but, I'm not willing to pay the price they ask for economic benefit.

Support the Other, oppose us, two sides of the same coin.

Economically, the Democrats are best. But on these wedge issues, on these Facebook rants, they aren't with "you". And that's why you vote against them, and for a party that harms you and little old grandma, but at least respects grandma's right to pray at the courthouse.

How are the Democrats economically best? If you haven't noticed, after 8 years of a Democratic Presidency, industry has continued to decay. Middle class level factory jobs have been replaced with minimum wage fast food jobs, yet this is called "recovery."

[Olerand]

Support the Other, oppose us, two sides of the same coin.

Economically, the Democrats are best. But on these wedge issues, on these Facebook rants, they aren't with "you". And that's why you vote against them, and for a party that harms you and little old grandma, but at least respects grandma's right to pray at the courthouse.

How are the Democrats economically best? If you haven't noticed, after 8 years of a Democratic Presidency, industry has continued to decay. Middle class level factory jobs have been replaced with minimum wage fast food jobs, yet this is called "recovery."

And you are under the impression that a Republican presidency will make your workers competitive with Vietnam's (or to be more fair, Mexico)? Let me ask you this, was industry on the decline under Bush?

[Hakons]

I'm speaking for myself, but people in my area that are religious tend lean right. So yes, we largely don't vote Democrat because many Democrats are irreligious. I don't see anything wrong with refusing to vote for people who are contrary to my core beliefs.

As for the Grandma part, most Grandparents voted Republican, largely because of what I outlined. I wish Republicans were more open to providing healthcare, but I can't vote for a party that seeks to constantly decrease the power of the Church and religion. Because Grandparents are largely religious, older folks vote Republican because Republicans tend to support religion while Democrats tend to undermine religion. While the Republican party is in no way the "Christian Party," they are at least friendly to Christianity, as opposed to the Democrats who have shown they prefer to secularize society and hold many positions that are contrary to Church positions.

So you oppose the Democrats on societal and cultural grounds, even as you know that economically they would be best for you. I don't doubt that Democrats' condescending irreligiousity can be irritating to the religious, but I fail to see how voting for the "religious" Republicans who will cut your grandmother's nursing home money is any more... Christian to be frank.

So, like I said, ironic choices, ironic options.

It's very rich when an irreligious person tries to call certain policies un-Christian. Anyway, as I have been saying the entire time, I don't agree with Republicans entirely, because they hold positions that are against the Gospel, like being anti-refugee and the general sneers at poor people, but I agree with Republicans more than I agree with Democrats, who's religious opinions range from "god is dead" to "people should't talk about God in public." Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are "Christian Parties," but the Republican party, in my opinion and the general opinion of actual religious people, is more Christian than the Democratic party.

[Hakons]

How are the Democrats economically best? If you haven't noticed, after 8 years of a Democratic Presidency, industry has continued to decay. Middle class level factory jobs have been replaced with minimum wage fast food jobs, yet this is called "recovery."

And you are under the impression that a Republican presidency will make your workers competitive with Vietnam's (or to be more fair, Mexico)? Let me ask you this, was industry on the decline under Bush?

Yes, as it was under Clinton and Obama. Both parties suck at keeping industry in Indiana.

[Olerand]

So you oppose the Democrats on societal and cultural grounds, even as you know that economically they would be best for you. I don't doubt that Democrats' condescending irreligiousity can be irritating to the religious, but I fail to see how voting for the "religious" Republicans who will cut your grandmother's nursing home money is any more... Christian to be frank.

So, like I said, ironic choices, ironic options.

It's very rich when an irreligious person tries to call certain policies un-Christian. Anyway, as I have been saying the entire time, I don't agree with Republicans entirely, because they hold positions that are against the Gospel, like being anti-refugee and the general sneers at poor people, but I agree with Republicans more than I agree with Democrats, who's religious opinions range from "god is dead" to "people should't talk about God in public." Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are "Christian Parties," but the Republican party, in my opinion and the general opinion of actual religious people, is more Christian than the Democratic party.

I went to Catholic school for the entirety of my schooling. Both of my parents are Catholic, and my father has a degree in theology. I'm not personally religious, but I am in no way distant from religion.
And I know that it is not Christian to kick grandma out of her nursing home.

So, again, it is the societal issues that drive you to the Republicans. Not any harmful economic issue that the Democrats have proposed.

[Telconi]

No, you're actively projecting misunderstood ideas onto the actual people who understand them. You're actively resisting a true knowledge of the root cause.

How so? You said that you oppose the Democrats because they oppose you. I suggested them opposing you, and them supporting the Other are two sides of the same coin.

You agreed, but called it asinine. Not wrong, but asinine. I believe it is correct (as you acknowledged), and not asinine.
The discussion is now is this asinine or not, and at this point, we are at subjective difference of appreciation and our issue cannot be resolved, so we best drop it.

Them opposing me, and them supporting others, isn't "two sides of the same coin"

I never agreed to anything. You are wrong, and you insist upon your wrongness, I was dismissing your supposed attempts at understanding as not in good faith.

[Olerand]

And you are under the impression that a Republican presidency will make your workers competitive with Vietnam's (or to be more fair, Mexico)? Let me ask you this, was industry on the decline under Bush?

Yes, as it was under Clinton and Obama. Both parties suck at keeping industry in Indiana.

Everybody, Jesus Christ included, suck at keeping industry in Indiana. You're not competitive with the Bangladeshi or Mexican worker, and trust me when I tell you this, you don't want to be.

[Olerand]

How so? You said that you oppose the Democrats because they oppose you. I suggested them opposing you, and them supporting the Other are two sides of the same coin.

You agreed, but called it asinine. Not wrong, but asinine. I believe it is correct (as you acknowledged), and not asinine.
The discussion is now is this asinine or not, and at this point, we are at subjective difference of appreciation and our issue cannot be resolved, so we best drop it.

Them opposing me, and them supporting others, isn't "two sides of the same coin"

I never agreed to anything. You are wrong, and you insist upon your wrongness, I was dismissing your supposed attempts at understanding as not in good faith.

Alright.

So, how do they oppose you?

[Arlenton]

White working class voters are generally socially conservative and economically a bit to the left. The standard GOP tactic is to center the political conversation around non-economic issues. In order to win the WCWs over, Dems need to do the opposite, not campaign on how racist their opponent is.

[Olerand]

White working class voters are generally socially conservative and economically a bit to the left. The standard GOP tactic is to center the political conversation around non-economic issues. In order to win the WCWs over, Dems need to do the opposite, not campaign on how racist their opponent is.

Only in America. You know, we don't talk about abortions anymore.
No politician outside of America, including the German Christian Democrats, will invoke Jesus as much as a Republican will.

Though your final sentence is of course objectively correct. We saw how running on "my opponent is the following bad-ist" was not a winning strategy already. Though I do not believe the Democrats have learned their lesson just yet.

[New haven america]

The working class white?

What policies might those be? Access to healthcare (even if not in the cheapest terms possible)? Better bargaining power in the market (even though their support for the unions nowadays is tepid at best)? Better pay, or better yet, just overtime pay?

What economic policies did the Democrats champion that were detrimental to you, a working-class white?


Thank you for your input. So it is the societal, wedge, angry-postings-on-Facebook issues that drive working class whites to vote for the Republicans.

Even as the Republicans slash Grandma's Medicare healthcare and her Medicaid nursing home.


So the Other. The liberal elites, the coasts, the cities. Not you.

So the issue is not economic, because then, objectively, the Democrats would be more supportive of you. But societal. They support the Other (who to you are the irreligious, the liberals, the atheists).

It isn't so much that they "support the 'Other'" as that they oppose us. Economically, I'd probably fare better under a Democrat government, but, I'm not willing to pay the price they ask for economic benefit.

My life would be easier under a Democratic government and policies, but they oppose some stuff I like (Like backwards American traditionalism that's done more harm than good), so fuck'em!

Is there some trouble we don't know about?

[Olerand]

It isn't so much that they "support the 'Other'" as that they oppose us. Economically, I'd probably fare better under a Democrat government, but, I'm not willing to pay the price they ask for economic benefit.

My life would be easier under a Democratic government and policies, but they oppose some stuff I like (Like backwards American traditionalism that's done more harm than good), so fuck'em!

Is there some trouble we don't know about?

This is why the Democrats lose the "working class whites".

[Hakons]

It's very rich when an irreligious person tries to call certain policies un-Christian. Anyway, as I have been saying the entire time, I don't agree with Republicans entirely, because they hold positions that are against the Gospel, like being anti-refugee and the general sneers at poor people, but I agree with Republicans more than I agree with Democrats, who's religious opinions range from "god is dead" to "people should't talk about God in public." Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are "Christian Parties," but the Republican party, in my opinion and the general opinion of actual religious people, is more Christian than the Democratic party.

I went to Catholic school for the entirety of my schooling. Both of my parents are Catholic, and my father has a degree in theology. I'm not personally religious, but I am in no way distant from religion.
And I know that it is not Christian to kick grandma out of her nursing home.

So, again, it is the societal issues that drive you to the Republicans. Not any harmful economic issue that the Democrats have proposed.

Correct, it is un-Christian to kick out the needy, in this case Grandma. Having said that, I think the Republican party adheres closer to Christianity than the Democratic party. This assessment is shared by the majority of Christians. If I were a French citizen, I would probably vote for Les Republicains, as most Catholiques do. If I were a German citizen, I would probably vote for the CDU, as most religious Germans do. In the West, the mainstream conservative parties receive a large amount of support from Christians (and Orthodox Jews) because they tend to be the party most palatable to Christian theology/religion in general. Therefor I would agree that I lean right because of social issues.

Sorry I judged you so rashly. I think it's cool you have religious elements in your family. I would, of course, encourage you to be closer to the religion of your parents, but only if you're so compelled.

[Arlenton]

White working class voters are generally socially conservative and economically a bit to the left. The standard GOP tactic is to center the political conversation around non-economic issues. In order to win the WCWs over, Dems need to do the opposite, not campaign on how racist their opponent is.

Only in America. You know, we don't talk about abortions anymore.
No politician outside of America, including the German Christian Democrats, will invoke Jesus as much as a Republican will.

Though your final sentence is of course objectively correct. We saw how running on "my opponent is the following bad-ist" was not a winning strategy already. Though I do not believe the Democrats have learned their lesson just yet.

I don't think they learned their lesson either. Some did I guess, but it seems like many more are just wanting to dump WCWs from their party.