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Is Diversity and Multiculturalism a Good or Bad Thing?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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HMS Queen Elizabeth
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Postby HMS Queen Elizabeth » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:58 am

Torrocca wrote:
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:Cultural homogeneity is a military technology that reduces internal violence and increases the effectiveness of external violence. Multiculturalism makes the people who adopt it more vulnerable and less powerful.

In the long run, multicultural societies are also not stable. Either the cultures will merge in some way, forming a new culture that will in effect have destroyed all the previous cultures, or some or all of the cultures will voluntarily segregate and secede from one another to form new monocultural societies.


So that's why the 200+ years of American society has completely and utterly collapsed, right?

How about... literally any country on earth? the UK is multicultural. France is multicultural. So is Belgium and the Netherlands. Germany is too. So on and so on... why haven't they failed?

America is a horrifying mess by the standards of anyone who has lived in a developed homogeneous country (Japan, Korea, Europe before immigration). We just don't/didn't have problems of not being able to walk around our cities at night, let alone not being able to stop your car on red in the worst neighbourhoods. America works at all only with massive internal security and de-facto segregation, both of which come at enormous and obvious cost in both raw monetary terms and reduced quality of life.
Last edited by HMS Queen Elizabeth on Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:00 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
So that's why the 200+ years of American society has completely and utterly collapsed, right?

How about... literally any country on earth? the UK is multicultural. France is multicultural. So is Belgium and the Netherlands. Germany is too. So on and so on... why haven't they failed?

America is a horrifying mess by the standards of anyone who has lived in a developed homogeneous country (Japan, Korea, Europe before immigration). We just don't/didn't have problems of not being able to walk around our cities at night, let alone not being able to stop your car on red in the worst neighbourhoods. America works at all only with massive internal security and de-facto segregation, both of which common at enormous and obvious cost in raw monetary terms and reduced quality of life.


Man, I sure love that I can walk safely out a night in my multiethnic, American neighborhood without worry late at night! It's certainly not any sort of horrifying mess riddled with crime and terror!

Also, neither Japan nor Europe are homogeneous. At all. Europe wasn't even homogeneous before immigration.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:00 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
So that's why the 200+ years of American society has completely and utterly collapsed, right?

How about... literally any country on earth? the UK is multicultural. France is multicultural. So is Belgium and the Netherlands. Germany is too. So on and so on... why haven't they failed?

America is a horrifying mess by the standards of anyone who has lived in a developed homogeneous country (Japan, Korea, Europe before immigration). We just don't/didn't have problems of not being able to walk around our cities at night, let alone not being able to stop your car on red in the worst neighbourhoods. America works at all only with massive internal security and de-facto segregation, both of which come at enormous and obvious cost in both raw monetary terms and reduced quality of life.


Tell us again how this homogeneity is faring in places like Japan, with a society that is slowly going into oblivion?
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:00 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:America is a horrifying mess by the standards of anyone who has lived in a developed homogeneous country (Japan, Korea, Europe before immigration). We just don't/didn't have problems of not being able to walk around our cities at night, let alone not being able to stop your car on red in the worst neighbourhoods. America works at all only with massive internal security and de-facto segregation, both of which come at enormous and obvious cost in both raw monetary terms and reduced quality of life.

I've walked around numerous cities at night without feeling like I shouldn't be there.

Guess DC and Baltimore just aren't black enough to be scared of.
Last edited by Conserative Morality on Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Illiberalism
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Postby Illiberalism » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:01 am

San Lumen wrote:
Illiberalism wrote:If they refuse to go back to Africa, they could always be sold to Brazil which was still practicing slavery at the time. If given that option, they'd probably change their minds.


Racism is defined as, "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior". Like I said before, I don't believe that whites are superior, just that cultural/racial unity should be maintained. This will lead to increased cohesion and social cooperation.


By saying only those of the native ethnic group should be allowed to have citizenship or become public servants is saying thats whites are superior. We are all equal under the law. I guess the cop in the example I gave should be kicked off the force or not have been allowed to even go to the academy because he;'s not white along with any other non white officer. I guess we should remove all non white elected officials from office too.

Im sorry that having people who dont look like you in your country irks you so much and you think immigration should be stopped completely. I suggest you read a history book. it might do you some good.

I don't think I am a white supremacist. Like I said before, I don't want whites living in Japan or being involved in Japanese government. It's about ethnic integrity. Also, I love history, it's my favorite subject and I have read many books about history.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:02 am

Illiberalism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
By saying only those of the native ethnic group should be allowed to have citizenship or become public servants is saying thats whites are superior. We are all equal under the law. I guess the cop in the example I gave should be kicked off the force or not have been allowed to even go to the academy because he;'s not white along with any other non white officer. I guess we should remove all non white elected officials from office too.

Im sorry that having people who dont look like you in your country irks you so much and you think immigration should be stopped completely. I suggest you read a history book. it might do you some good.

I don't think I am a white supremacist. Like I said before, I don't want whites living in Japan or being involved in Japanese government. It's about ethnic integrity. Also, I love history, it's my favorite subject and I have read many books about history.


Ethnic integrity? No mingling with them darkies of yellow tails? How is that any different from the disgusting white supremacy ideology?
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:02 am

Illiberalism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
By saying only those of the native ethnic group should be allowed to have citizenship or become public servants is saying thats whites are superior. We are all equal under the law. I guess the cop in the example I gave should be kicked off the force or not have been allowed to even go to the academy because he;'s not white along with any other non white officer. I guess we should remove all non white elected officials from office too.

Im sorry that having people who dont look like you in your country irks you so much and you think immigration should be stopped completely. I suggest you read a history book. it might do you some good.

I don't think I am a white supremacist. Like I said before, I don't want whites living in Japan or being involved in Japanese government. It's about ethnic integrity. Also, I love history, it's my favorite subject and I have read many books about history.


Japan is multi-ethnic regardless - ain't no ethnic integrity there. Or literally anywhere else in the world.
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HMS Queen Elizabeth
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Postby HMS Queen Elizabeth » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:03 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:America is a horrifying mess by the standards of anyone who has lived in a developed homogeneous country (Japan, Korea, Europe before immigration). We just don't/didn't have problems of not being able to walk around our cities at night, let alone not being able to stop your car on red in the worst neighbourhoods. America works at all only with massive internal security and de-facto segregation, both of which come at enormous and obvious cost in both raw monetary terms and reduced quality of life.

I've walked around numerous cities at night without feeling like I shouldn't be there.

Guess DC and Baltimore just aren't black enough to be scared of.

I found DC terrifying.

I am friends with a (black!) former DC cop who said that people would be shot within sight of the White House, so I am not going to take your word that it is just me.

Maybe that isn't common! Maybe it's common enough that you don't have to worry about it too much! I mean, people do dangerous stuff all the time right? But it's certainly not something most Europeans are used to.
Crown the King with Might!
Let the King be strong,
Hating guile and wrong,
He that scorneth pride.
Fearing truth and right,
Feareth nought beside;
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:04 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:I've walked around numerous cities at night without feeling like I shouldn't be there.

Guess DC and Baltimore just aren't black enough to be scared of.

I am friends with a (black!) former DC cop who said that people would be shot within sight of the White House, so I am not going to take your word that it is just me.


And we should take your word of this?
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They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
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Illiberalism
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Postby Illiberalism » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:04 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:America is a horrifying mess by the standards of anyone who has lived in a developed homogeneous country (Japan, Korea, Europe before immigration). We just don't/didn't have problems of not being able to walk around our cities at night, let alone not being able to stop your car on red in the worst neighbourhoods. America works at all only with massive internal security and de-facto segregation, both of which come at enormous and obvious cost in both raw monetary terms and reduced quality of life.


Tell us again how this homogeneity is faring in places like Japan, with a society that is slowly going into oblivion?

There are many factors contributing to Japan's situation. Also, the homogenous cultural policies in Japan are responsible for a lot of good things.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:05 am

Illiberalism wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Tell us again how this homogeneity is faring in places like Japan, with a society that is slowly going into oblivion?

There are many factors contributing to Japan's situation. Also, the homogenous cultural policies in Japan are responsible for a lot of good things.


And also responsible for a lot of bad so... tell me again, how is cultural homogeneity a good thing?
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HMS Queen Elizabeth
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Postby HMS Queen Elizabeth » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:05 am

Torrocca wrote:
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:I am friends with a (black!) former DC cop who said that people would be shot within sight of the White House, so I am not going to take your word that it is just me.


And we should take your word of this?

As much as "But hurr my neighbourhood is totally safe!". The murder statistics certainly bear out my story and not yours.
Crown the King with Might!
Let the King be strong,
Hating guile and wrong,
He that scorneth pride.
Fearing truth and right,
Feareth nought beside;
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:08 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
And we should take your word of this?

As much as "But hurr my neighbourhood is totally safe!". The murder statistics certainly bear out my story and not yours.


Err, according to the statistics, D.C. only had 92 homicides as of 2012, compared to a peak of 479 in 1991. So, I think I'm right to call bullshit on the claim of, "oh you can get shot in front of the White House all willy-nilly like!"
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They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:08 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:I found DC terrifying.

I am friends with a (black!) former DC cop who said that people would be shot within sight of the White House, so I am not going to take your word that it is just me.

Wow. I must be really lucky to have seen the White House and not been shot.

Featuring: People being shot

I'm pretty sure he was fucking with you.
Maybe that isn't common! Maybe it's common enough that you don't have to worry about it too much! I mean, people do dangerous stuff all the time right? But it's certainly not something most Europeans are used to.

Nothing dangerous about it.
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Illiberalism
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Postby Illiberalism » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:08 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Illiberalism wrote:I don't think I am a white supremacist. Like I said before, I don't want whites living in Japan or being involved in Japanese government. It's about ethnic integrity. Also, I love history, it's my favorite subject and I have read many books about history.


Ethnic integrity? No mingling with them darkies of yellow tails? How is that any different from the disgusting white supremacy ideology?

Racial supremacy affirms that a specific race is absolutely better than all others, that's not what I am saying. I want to achieve a unified society that isn't divided by things like race.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:08 am

Torrocca wrote:
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:I am friends with a (black!) former DC cop who said that people would be shot within sight of the White House, so I am not going to take your word that it is just me.


And we should take your word of this?

B-because some of his best friends are black!
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:09 am

Illiberalism wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Ethnic integrity? No mingling with them darkies of yellow tails? How is that any different from the disgusting white supremacy ideology?

Racial supremacy affirms that a specific race is absolutely better than all others, that's not what I am saying. I want to achieve a unified society that isn't divided by things like race.


And yet you insist on ethnic integrity. How do you unify with such a purist outlook? How do we unify if we don't embrace diversity?
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:10 am

Illiberalism wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Ethnic integrity? No mingling with them darkies of yellow tails? How is that any different from the disgusting white supremacy ideology?

Racial supremacy affirms that a specific race is absolutely better than all others, that's not what I am saying. I want to achieve a unified society that isn't divided by things like race.


So stop getting riled up about diversity. Easy.
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They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
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Illiberalism
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Postby Illiberalism » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:15 am

Torrocca wrote:
Illiberalism wrote:Racial supremacy affirms that a specific race is absolutely better than all others, that's not what I am saying. I want to achieve a unified society that isn't divided by things like race.


So stop getting riled up about diversity. Easy.

I'm being pretty low key and civil.

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HMS Queen Elizabeth
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Postby HMS Queen Elizabeth » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:16 am

Torrocca wrote:
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:As much as "But hurr my neighbourhood is totally safe!". The murder statistics certainly bear out my story and not yours.


Err, according to the statistics, D.C. only had 92 homicides as of 2012, compared to a peak of 479 in 1991. So, I think I'm right to call bullshit on the claim of, "oh you can get shot in front of the White House all willy-nilly like!"

I didn't say anything about "willy nilly". You consider 92 murders a good number. OK. I do not.

You like your progress since 1991 too. In 1991, of course, Washington DC had a comparable number of murders to the entire United Kingdom. Well, good job improving on that one.

But how do you think this improvement was accomplished? People just got less murderous? Or people started taking more precautions to defend themselves? Do you ever wonder why you can't walk or bike anywhere in the US? That, of course, combined with a programme of imprisoning working age black men that doesn't differ enormously from plantation slavery, and is probably less humanising?
Crown the King with Might!
Let the King be strong,
Hating guile and wrong,
He that scorneth pride.
Fearing truth and right,
Feareth nought beside;
Crown the King with Might!

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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:16 am

Illiberalism wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
So stop getting riled up about diversity. Easy.

I'm being pretty low key and civil.


Diversity does seem to leave a sour taste in your mouth, however, which is where you're going wrong.

Humans are still humans regardless of things like skin color, ethnicity, culture, religion, etc. There's no reason to assume they should be forbidden from any society because of them being "different," so long as they're not trying to do harm.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Illiberalism
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Postby Illiberalism » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:17 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Illiberalism wrote:Racial supremacy affirms that a specific race is absolutely better than all others, that's not what I am saying. I want to achieve a unified society that isn't divided by things like race.


And yet you insist on ethnic integrity. How do you unify with such a purist outlook? How do we unify if we don't embrace diversity?

Acknowledging that everyone is different and encouraging people to mainatin those differences is not unifying.
Last edited by Illiberalism on Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:18 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Err, according to the statistics, D.C. only had 92 homicides as of 2012, compared to a peak of 479 in 1991. So, I think I'm right to call bullshit on the claim of, "oh you can get shot in front of the White House all willy-nilly like!"

Do you ever wonder why you can't walk or bike anywhere in the US?


You're right. No American can do that. It's so *sniffle* so bad here! Please, oh sweet, merciful, diversity-hating savior, break our chains of multicultural oppression!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Washington Resistance Army
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:20 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:Do you ever wonder why you can't walk or bike anywhere in the US?


I walk pretty much everywhere, myself.
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Illiberalism
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Postby Illiberalism » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:21 am

Torrocca wrote:
Illiberalism wrote:I'm being pretty low key and civil.


Diversity does seem to leave a sour taste in your mouth, however, which is where you're going wrong.

It's called taking a stance on something. For instance, you seem to be pro-diversity. Racial homogeneity leaves a sour tatse in your mouth. There's nothing wrong with that.

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