Is Diversity and Multiculturalism a Good or Bad Thing?

[New haven america]

1a. Because you're still on my ignore list so I don't see that stuff unless I want to, and 1b. Because most of those weren't lighthearted, it was more smug/I'm better than you and trying to bring up things that really didn't apply.

2a. No, you've argued with others and acted all "You are nothing but beneath me" towards me in this very thread (And towards others elsewhere, but I'm pretty sure most are CTE...). There's a massive and distinct difference with how you acted around OeP and me for example, it's not difficult to see the difference from the moment you started. 2b. You mean the person who threw a tantrum? 2c. Well, I'm not sensitive and I actually tend to be rather calm towards most. However, if someone is acting calm or respectful towards another, and said another starts screaming and being ultra aggressive towards the person, the calm person probably won't want to interact with the other now, would they? As that response wasn't appropriate to the behavior and is pretty alienating.

My invitation still remains open.

I've accepted your invitation?

My invitation to be cordial.

Calm down and relax.

[Bakery Hill]

1.That is far more a social problem than a genetic one. 2.There's lightweights and there's heavyweights but a vast number of colonised societies across the world don't typically drink themselves half to death because they're not quite as good as holding their liquor.

1. That's the point, their argument towards me is that social and ethnic differences are the cause of problems and mistrust
2a. Yes, but what they were sourcing doesn't apply. Even if you're a lightweight, you still know your limits and can plan or handle situations accordingly. But if you've never experienced something, and are expected to handle yourself at a professional level, it's not going to work most of the time.

That's the problem, they used an area of the world that's not historically diverse, and tried to say that applied everywhere, when it doesn't. Now, if they used more source that included areas like: The US, Canada, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Singapore, China (Which is actually pretty diverse, surprisingly), etc... Then that would help their argument, but they didn't.

2b. Uh... They kinda did, look up The Canadian Whiskey Trade. It is awful.

You are aware that alcohol and other intoxicants were consumed extensively among Native Americans right?

I mean there's this noble savage myth that "before the white man came we lived in harmony, we did not know the white man's war or the white man's firewater" no they were killing and enslaving and making their own empires and drinking booze and getting mad high on peyote. They were fucking lit fam.

[New haven america]

1. That's the point, their argument towards me is that social and ethnic differences are the cause of problems and mistrust
2a. Yes, but what they were sourcing doesn't apply. Even if you're a lightweight, you still know your limits and can plan or handle situations accordingly. But if you've never experienced something, and are expected to handle yourself at a professional level, it's not going to work most of the time.

That's the problem, they used an area of the world that's not historically diverse, and tried to say that applied everywhere, when it doesn't. Now, if they used more source that included areas like: The US, Canada, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Singapore, China (Which is actually pretty diverse, surprisingly), etc... Then that would help their argument, but they didn't.

2b. Uh... They kinda did, look up The Canadian Whiskey Trade. It is awful.

You are aware that alcohol and other intoxicants were consumed extensively among Native Americans right?

Of course, but those were nothing compared to distilled drinks, weak beers and weak wines at best.

Source: The Canadian Whiskey Trade: They introduced a stronger intoxicant (Whisky) to an area that never had it (Canadian plains and territories), and everything went to shit for the natives.

[Bohnland]

I believe wholeheartedly in multiculturalism and cultural and political diversity, with the understanding that a true successful melting pot sees at least partial assimilation of cultures into the creation of a new whole. The United States in the 1800s is a good example of what I mean: you had a ton of different migrant populations arriving from places like China, Eastern and Southern Europe, Ireland... These groups would retain strong cultural identities through their heritage, but they also worked to integrate into American society, even battling through racial prejudices to do so in a lot of cases. Today, America is a much richer, diverse place because of the unique cultures that imprinted a little bit of themselves on the national culture.

The problem with universal multiculturalism and diversity though is that assimilation isn't always possible to the necessary degree. You're seeing sort of the antithesis of the American experiment in Europe right now with restless refugee and migrant populations chafing under a far more liberal culture than they're coming from. The result are incompatible ideologies that are causing growing unrest among the migrants and reactionary fears from the natives. It would be amazing if humanity could put aside its differences and learn to live together in harmony, but acting like this fairy tale is actually possible in 2017 can be a very foolish mistake.

[Bakery Hill]

You are aware that alcohol and other intoxicants were consumed extensively among Native Americans right?

Of course, but those were nothing compared to distilled drinks, weak beers and weak wines at best.

Source: The Canadian Whiskey Trade: They introduced a stronger intoxicant (Whisky) to an area that never had it (Canadian plains and territories), and everything went to shit for the natives.

I don't think you understand how alcoholism work, individually or socially. A society doesn't just accidentally fall into it because they start drinking stronger liquor. There's typically a reason why you want to blot everything out. Like having your entire worldview shattered, losing your social sense of purpose and having 80-90% of your population wiped out by diseases and massacres.

Besides the sources I'm seeing typically cite 8-14%, that's not weak beer or wine.

[New haven america]

Of course, but those were nothing compared to distilled drinks, weak beers and weak wines at best.

Source: The Canadian Whiskey Trade: They introduced a stronger intoxicant (Whisky) to an area that never had it (Canadian plains and territories), and everything went to shit for the natives.

1.I don't think you understand how alcoholism work, individually or socially. A society doesn't just accidentally fall into it because they start drinking stronger liquor. 2.There's typically a reason why you want to blot everything out. Like having your entire worldview shattered, losing your social sense of purpose and having 80-90% of your population wiped out by diseases and massacres.

Besides the sources I'm seeing typically cite 8-14%, that's not weak beer or wine.

1. Yes, I do, source: about 2 years of psych, might even make that my degree.
2. Or, they can also find something they like and don't stop using it or don't use it in moderation. This is where a lack of experience comes in.
3. Most beer generally has between 4-12% and most wine is usually 11-32%. Whiskey is usually 40-66%, for reference. So yeah, the native's alcohol was pretty weak...

[Bakery Hill]

1.I don't think you understand how alcoholism work, individually or socially. A society doesn't just accidentally fall into it because they start drinking stronger liquor. 2.There's typically a reason why you want to blot everything out. Like having your entire worldview shattered, losing your social sense of purpose and having 80-90% of your population wiped out by diseases and massacres.

Besides the sources I'm seeing typically cite 8-14%, that's not weak beer or wine.

1. Yes, I do, source: about 2 years of psych, might even make that my degree.
2. Or, they can also find something they like and don't stop using it or don't use it in moderation. This is where a lack of experience comes in.

Waking up the next morning with a hangover is all the experience you need. The poor gentle but noble savage routine doesn't cut it. It's unmistakably social trauma and dislocation.

3. Most beer generally has between 4-12% and most wine is usually 11-32%. Whiskey is usually 40-66%, for reference. So yeah, the native's alcohol was pretty weak...

up to 12%
up to 32%
up to 66%

fuck me where are you getting this shit from

[New haven america]

1. Yes, I do, source: about 2 years of psych, might even make that my degree.
2. Or, they can also find something they like and don't stop using it or don't use it in moderation. This is where a lack of experience comes in.

1.Waking up the next morning with a hangover is all the experience you need. The poor gentle but noble savage routine doesn't cut it. It's unmistakably social trauma and dislocation.

3. Most beer generally has between 4-12% and most wine is usually 11-32%. Whiskey is usually 40-66%, for reference. So yeah, the native's alcohol was pretty weak...

2.up to 12%
up to 32%
up to 66%

fuck me where are you getting this shit from

1. Addictive personalities are a thing, you know that right?
2. Several sources that are dedicate to tracking alcohol percentages (Or alcohol by volume (ABV), for short). There are several sites, and they're all pretty interesting. There's even a beer, Schorsch Bock 43, that is ~43% I can get you more sources if you want, it's quite an interesting topic.

Though, this isn't the topic of the thread, so it should be moved elsewhere.

[The East Marches II]

1.I don't think you understand how alcoholism work, individually or socially. A society doesn't just accidentally fall into it because they start drinking stronger liquor. 2.There's typically a reason why you want to blot everything out. Like having your entire worldview shattered, losing your social sense of purpose and having 80-90% of your population wiped out by diseases and massacres.

Besides the sources I'm seeing typically cite 8-14%, that's not weak beer or wine.

1. Yes, I do, source: about 2 years of psych, might even make that my degree.
2. Or, they can also find something they like and don't stop using it or don't use it in moderation. This is where a lack of experience comes in.
3. Most beer generally has between 4-12% and most wine is usually 11-32%. Whiskey is usually 40-66%, for reference. So yeah, the native's alcohol was pretty weak...

We are gonna need actual proofs, not the cutesy "Source: Me!" nonsense

[Soldati Senza Confini]

1.I've criticised you're position three times on my count, albeit in a light-hearted rather than academic way, and you refused to defend your position. I'll restate my previous statement if you missed it.



2a.I'm willing to argue this point. I've argued it with others on this thread and I've attempted to argue it with you, in this thread and in others I've had very few complaints, much less about my "vitriol" which is really a bit of a joke. 2b.And as Soldati pointed out, 2c.please don't be so sensitive as to balk when your own more aggressive style of argument is given back to you.

1a. Because you're still on my ignore list so I don't see that stuff unless I want to, and 1b. Because most of those weren't lighthearted, it was more smug/I'm better than you and trying to bring up things that really didn't apply.

2a. No, you've argued with others and acted all "You are nothing but beneath me" towards me in this very thread (And towards others elsewhere, but I'm pretty sure most are CTE...). There's a massive and distinct difference with how you acted around OeP and me for example, it's not difficult to see the difference from the moment you started. 2b. You mean the person who threw a tantrum? 2c. Well, I'm not sensitive and I actually tend to be rather calm towards most. However, if someone is acting calm or respectful towards another, and said another starts screaming and being ultra aggressive towards the person, the calm person probably won't want to interact with the other now, would they? As that response wasn't appropriate to the behavior and is pretty alienating.

My invitation still remains open.

And then you wonder why you got my reception from me.

Look, if you're going to pretend we're just badly behaved children I suggest you fucking cut that shit out. You are doing nothing but pissing me off at this point by continually claiming I am nothing but a childish brat who had a tantrum when you got cornered and can't back up your fucking argument.

If you can't be a fucking polite person, don't reply to people in this fucking thread with your fucking passive-aggressive, fucking condescending attitude. You have nothing to be condescending about when other people have called on your shit multiple times. At least be condescending when you know you're right, not when you are on a losing battle.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

If you can't handle the heat, I recommend you don't try to act agro like the rest of us. Just a word of advice, before you start calling me a manchild again, since apparently that's your go-to when shit hits the fan and sprays back at your face.

Now, I'm not turning this into a thread jack, either go to the FCC thread, or TG me, but I'm not doing this here.

How about I do whatever the fuck I want and you stop trying to tell me what to do? You're not my father, you're not my boss, and you're not fucking me up the ass, so cut the condescending shit out. If you don't want to reply to me that's your prerogative, but don't tell me how the fuck I should behave. I'm a fucking adult, something you fail to grasp yet.

[Washington Resistance Army]

1a. Because you're still on my ignore list so I don't see that stuff unless I want to, and 1b. Because most of those weren't lighthearted, it was more smug/I'm better than you and trying to bring up things that really didn't apply.

2a. No, you've argued with others and acted all "You are nothing but beneath me" towards me in this very thread (And towards others elsewhere, but I'm pretty sure most are CTE...). There's a massive and distinct difference with how you acted around OeP and me for example, it's not difficult to see the difference from the moment you started. 2b. You mean the person who threw a tantrum? 2c. Well, I'm not sensitive and I actually tend to be rather calm towards most. However, if someone is acting calm or respectful towards another, and said another starts screaming and being ultra aggressive towards the person, the calm person probably won't want to interact with the other now, would they? As that response wasn't appropriate to the behavior and is pretty alienating.

My invitation still remains open.

And then you wonder why you got my reception from me.

Look, if you're going to pretend we're just badly behaved children I suggest you fucking cut that shit out. You are doing nothing but pissing me off at this point by continually claiming I am nothing but a childish brat who had a tantrum when you got cornered and can't back up your fucking argument.

If you can't be a fucking polite person, don't reply to people in this fucking thread with your fucking passive-aggressive, fucking condescending attitude. You have nothing to be condescending about when other people have called on your shit multiple times. At least be condescending when you know you're right, not when you are on a losing battle.

To be fair NHA isn't even 20 years old. He's still at that dumb age where he thinks he knows everything. It's just a phase Soldati

I believe wholeheartedly in multiculturalism and cultural and political diversity, with the understanding that a true successful melting pot sees at least partial assimilation of cultures into the creation of a new whole. The United States in the 1800s is a good example of what I mean: you had a ton of different migrant populations arriving from places like China, Eastern and Southern Europe, Ireland... These groups would retain strong cultural identities through their heritage, but they also worked to integrate into American society, even battling through racial prejudices to do so in a lot of cases. Today, America is a much richer, diverse place because of the unique cultures that imprinted a little bit of themselves on the national culture.

The problem with universal multiculturalism and diversity though is that assimilation isn't always possible to the necessary degree. You're seeing sort of the antithesis of the American experiment in Europe right now with restless refugee and migrant populations chafing under a far more liberal culture than they're coming from. The result are incompatible ideologies that are causing growing unrest among the migrants and reactionary fears from the natives. It would be amazing if humanity could put aside its differences and learn to live together in harmony, but acting like this fairy tale is actually possible in 2017 can be a very foolish mistake.

This guy gets it^

[Bakery Hill]

1.Waking up the next morning with a hangover is all the experience you need. The poor gentle but noble savage routine doesn't cut it. It's unmistakably social trauma and dislocation.

2.up to 12%
up to 32%
up to 66%

fuck me where are you getting this shit from

1. Addictive personalities are a thing, you know that right?
2. Several sources that are dedicate to tracking alcohol percentages (Or alcohol by volume (ABV), for short). There are several sites, and they're all pretty interesting. There's even a beer, Schorsch Bock 43, that is ~43% I can get you more sources if you want, it's quite an interesting topic.

Though, this isn't the topic of the thread, so it should be moved elsewhere.

1. Addictive personalities are a thing, which is why any society with alcohol will probably have alcoholic individuals. But we're not talking individuals and personalities. We're talking about an entire society, so that's not relevant.
2. Yes I'm aware some specialty beers and wine have very high alcohol contents. Except we're talking about alcohol strength in relation to the topic at hand. You contested that 8-14% strength is weak alcohol, it is not, it's very strong for beer and typical for wine. I'm not sure you're very experienced with alcohol if you think otherwise.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

1. Addictive personalities are a thing, you know that right?
2. Several sources that are dedicate to tracking alcohol percentages (Or alcohol by volume (ABV), for short). There are several sites, and they're all pretty interesting. There's even a beer, Schorsch Bock 43, that is ~43% I can get you more sources if you want, it's quite an interesting topic.

Though, this isn't the topic of the thread, so it should be moved elsewhere.

1. Addictive personalities are a thing, which is why any society with alcohol will probably have alcoholic individuals. But we're not talking individuals and personalities. We're talking about an entire society, so that's not relevant.
2. Yes I'm aware some specialty beers and wine have very high alcohol contents. Except we're talking about alcohol strength in relation to the topic at hand. You contested that 8-14% strength is weak alcohol, it is not, it's very strong for beer and typical for wine. I'm not sure you're very experienced with alcohol if you think otherwise.

I can confirm on the second point, anything above 10% is fucking strong. I just had vodka and rum and even though I am perfectly conscious of my own actions, it does kick in pretty harshly when it does kick in.

[Bakery Hill]

1. Addictive personalities are a thing, which is why any society with alcohol will probably have alcoholic individuals. But we're not talking individuals and personalities. We're talking about an entire society, so that's not relevant.
2. Yes I'm aware some specialty beers and wine have very high alcohol contents. Except we're talking about alcohol strength in relation to the topic at hand. You contested that 8-14% strength is weak alcohol, it is not, it's very strong for beer and typical for wine. I'm not sure you're very experienced with alcohol if you think otherwise.

I can confirm on the second point, anything above 10% is fucking strong. I just had vodka and rum and even though I am perfectly conscious of my own actions, it does kick in pretty harshly when it does kick in.

What NHA is really doing is replicating an old racist trope.

The "firewater" fairytale that Elm came to know all too well goes like this: Europeans introduced Native Americans to alcohol, which they were genetically unprepared to handle. That happenstance led to alcoholism rates that are around twice as high as those seen in whites — and alcohol-related death rates, which are at least tripled. In this view, colonization didn’t make conquered people susceptible to heavy drinking — genes did.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/2/9428 ... -americans

[New haven america]

I can confirm on the second point, anything above 10% is fucking strong. I just had vodka and rum and even though I am perfectly conscious of my own actions, it does kick in pretty harshly when it does kick in.

What NHA is really doing is replicating an old racist trope.

>Claims I'm replicating racist trope
>Has Native American great grandmother

Uh-huh... I tend to be careful when I'm talking about stuff like this, as I know how it affected people on that part of my family.

[The East Marches II]

What NHA is really doing is replicating an old racist trope.

>Claims I'm replicating racist trope
>Has Native American great grandmother

Uh-huh...

That clearly makes him immune to racism, well done boys. Don't worry if he doesn't meet the quantum level, it's a one drop rule for anti-racism :^)

[Washington Resistance Army]

What NHA is really doing is replicating an old racist trope.

>Claims I'm replicating racist trope
>Has Native American great grandmother

Uh-huh... I tend to be careful when I'm talking about stuff like this.

That's just as bad as saying I have a black friend lol

[Bakery Hill]

What NHA is really doing is replicating an old racist trope.

>Claims I'm replicating racist trope
>Has Native American great grandmother

Uh-huh... I tend to be careful when I'm talking about stuff like this.

No you are, whether it's your intention or not. Read the article, it's quite informative and well written.

[Bakery Hill]

>Claims I'm replicating racist trope
>Has Native American great grandmother

Uh-huh...

That clearly makes him immune to racism, well done boys. Don't worry if he doesn't meet the quantum level, it's a one drop rule for anti-racism :^)

And here I thought "I'm 1/16th Cherokee" was a meme.

[Galloism]

What NHA is really doing is replicating an old racist trope.

>Claims I'm replicating racist trope
>Has Native American great grandmother

Uh-huh... I tend to be careful when I'm talking about stuff like this, as I know how it affected people on that part of my family.

Ok, I haven’t been paying all that much attention, but “I had a distant relative that fucked a plains Indian” does not make you unable to engage racist tropes as a matter of physics. It’s basically “I have a black friend”, genetics edition.

This stacking of privilege/oppression to render any action by the “oppressed” as ok is ethically bankrupt. Saying “I have a distant relative that had sex with an Indian” is just... sad.

[New haven america]

>Claims I'm replicating racist trope
>Has Native American great grandmother

Uh-huh... I tend to be careful when I'm talking about stuff like this.

That's just as bad as saying I have a black friend lol

But why would I make such claims that would dig so deeply into parts of my family?

Here's the answer: I wouldn't! But I know some can't help but make crappy jokes and spread weak memes (Seriously, you need to up your meme game).

[Bakery Hill]

That's just as bad as saying I have a black friend lol

But why would I make such claims that would dig so deeply into parts of my family?

Here's the answer: I wouldn't! But I know some can't help but make crappy jokes and spread weak memes (Seriously, you need to up your meme game).

I haven't seen any memes. Just racist tropes, unknowingly repeated, but still harmful and wrong.

[Washington Resistance Army]

That's just as bad as saying I have a black friend lol

But why would I make such claims that would dig so deeply into parts of my family?

Here's the answer: I wouldn't! But I know some can't help but make crappy jokes and spread weak memes (Seriously, you need to up your meme game).

>implying I'm memeing

No friendo, not this time. That's just a legitimately sad excuse and one that has been used to death by racists in the past.

[The East Marches II]

That's just as bad as saying I have a black friend lol

But why would I make such claims that would dig so deeply into parts of my family?

Here's the answer: I wouldn't! But I know some can't help but make crappy jokes and spread weak memes (Seriously, you need to up your meme game).

Because you sincerely believe racist shit and also believe if you are a bit brown you can't be racist :^)