Is Diversity and Multiculturalism a Good or Bad Thing?

[Taihei Tengoku]

HMS QE is right, at least as far as DC and Tokyo go--I have lived in both.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

What is varying is the population. This tends to happen in American and African (but I repeat myself) cities. It really does not tend to happen in Japanese cities. It is very unusual for European cities to have areas that are dangerous for strangers to walk around, or for Europeans to not want to take buses out of safety concerns.

You must not visit cities much I take it.

Maybe I have a bad sample. In fact I am sure I have. But even in US cities I consider quite nice, the prevalence of aggressive panhandlers and crazy people screaming stuff while everyone walks by and pretends not to notice it, or even just shifty-looking people standing around everyone glowering at you, is off-putting if you are used to something else. I am sure one gets used to it. Probably we will get used to multiculturalism. In Brazil, many houses have high walls topped with barbed wire fences, and the owners probably do not think about it much.

[Post War America]

You must not visit cities much I take it.

Maybe I have a bad sample. In fact I am sure I have. But even in US cities I consider quite nice, the prevalence of aggressive panhandlers and crazy people screaming stuff while everyone walks by and pretends not to notice it, or even just shifty-looking people standing around everyone glowering at you, is off-putting if you are used to something else. I am sure one gets used to it. Probably we will get used to multiculturalism. In Brazil, many houses have high walls topped with barbed wire fences, and the owners probably do not think about it much.

That's fair I guess. As someone who's lived in US cities most of my life, I'm not really bothered by "dangerous" neighborhoods, or the safety of the buses, being a very robbable looking white guy even. As a result I can see the good that cities have.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Maybe I have a bad sample. In fact I am sure I have. But even in US cities I consider quite nice, the prevalence of aggressive panhandlers and crazy people screaming stuff while everyone walks by and pretends not to notice it, or even just shifty-looking people standing around everyone glowering at you, is off-putting if you are used to something else. I am sure one gets used to it. Probably we will get used to multiculturalism. In Brazil, many houses have high walls topped with barbed wire fences, and the owners probably do not think about it much.

That's fair I guess. As someone who's lived in US cities most of my life, I'm not really bothered by "dangerous" neighborhoods, or the safety of the buses, being a very robbable looking white guy even. As a result I can see the good that cities have.

My point is not that cities offer nothing good. My point is that cities do not need to have what Americans seem to consider inherent drawbacks, and in some parts of the world they don't.

[Post War America]

That's fair I guess. As someone who's lived in US cities most of my life, I'm not really bothered by "dangerous" neighborhoods, or the safety of the buses, being a very robbable looking white guy even. As a result I can see the good that cities have.

My point is not that cities offer nothing good. My point is that cities do not need to have what Americans seem to consider inherent drawbacks, and in some parts of the world they don't.

I would argue many of the inherent "disadvantages" of American cities are emblematic of a failing in modern American culture moreso than of the cities themselves.

[Holy Tedalonia]

My point is not that cities offer nothing good. My point is that cities do not need to have what Americans seem to consider inherent drawbacks, and in some parts of the world they don't.

I would argue many of the inherent "disadvantages" of American cities are emblematic of a failing in modern American culture moreso than of the cities themselves.

Really I thought cities were all about multiculturalism... are you saying it's a disadvantage? Don't worry, I'd agree if you felt that way.

[Post War America]

I would argue many of the inherent "disadvantages" of American cities are emblematic of a failing in modern American culture moreso than of the cities themselves.

Really I thought cities were all about multiculturalism... are you saying it's a disadvantage? Don't worry, I'd agree if you felt that way.

No I'm referring to the Capitalist culture (not necessarily the economic system, that's another topic and largely irrelevant to the immediate argument), and the notion of "fuck you, got mine" that seems pretty damn pervasive throughout the United States. The replacement of civic virtue with selfish consumerism is a greater cancer to our society than the failings of any one ethnic group, or any mixing of those groups.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Really I thought cities were all about multiculturalism... are you saying it's a disadvantage? Don't worry, I'd agree if you felt that way.

No I'm referring to the Capitalist culture (not necessarily the economic system, that's another topic and largely irrelevant to the immediate argument), and the notion of "fuck you, got mine" that seems pretty damn pervasive throughout the United States. The replacement of civic virtue with selfish consumerism is a greater cancer to our society than the failings of any one ethnic group, or any mixing of those groups.

Assuming your talking about the generic American culture that being overtaken by multiculturalism... would mean that the suburbans would be shittier than the cities which is almost most definitely false. If your not talking about that then I don't know what culture your talking about.

[Rubyna]

Multiculturalism can be productive for the culture and industry of a nation if the core fundamental values of the nation are respected by everyone. In the US, that is the respect for and
preservation of the liberty of self and others. To become a citizen, they ask you several questions, one including if you are a communist, and the most important wether you support the Constitution. If you agree and have a solid understanding of the nation's history, you are a citizen. This helps the nation expand its cultural-productive horizons while assuring its image.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Really I thought cities were all about multiculturalism... are you saying it's a disadvantage? Don't worry, I'd agree if you felt that way.

No I'm referring to the Capitalist culture (not necessarily the economic system, that's another topic and largely irrelevant to the immediate argument), and the notion of "fuck you, got mine" that seems pretty damn pervasive throughout the United States. The replacement of civic virtue with selfish consumerism is a greater cancer to our society than the failings of any one ethnic group, or any mixing of those groups.

Rich parts of the US are generally pleasant if overpriced for what they are.

The problem with the US is that it has a disproportionately large underclass of people who are just way stupider and more short sighted than the norm for Europeans or Orientals.

[Post War America]

No I'm referring to the Capitalist culture (not necessarily the economic system, that's another topic and largely irrelevant to the immediate argument), and the notion of "fuck you, got mine" that seems pretty damn pervasive throughout the United States. The replacement of civic virtue with selfish consumerism is a greater cancer to our society than the failings of any one ethnic group, or any mixing of those groups.

Rich parts of the US are generally pleasant if overpriced for what they are.

The problem with the US is that it has a disproportionately large underclass of people who are just way stupider and more short sighted than the norm for Europeans or Orientals.

That stupidity is fundamentally a result of our selfish attitudes. I fail to see how economic disparities are the result of multiculturalism. Unless you are making a very particular kind of argument about the inherent superiority of certain races over others.

[Holy Tedalonia]

No I'm referring to the Capitalist culture (not necessarily the economic system, that's another topic and largely irrelevant to the immediate argument), and the notion of "fuck you, got mine" that seems pretty damn pervasive throughout the United States. The replacement of civic virtue with selfish consumerism is a greater cancer to our society than the failings of any one ethnic group, or any mixing of those groups.

Rich parts of the US are generally pleasant if overpriced for what they are.

The problem with the US is that it has a disproportionately large underclass of people who are just way stupider and more short sighted than the norm for Europeans or Orientals.

While I don't like the idea of dissing my nations people, I kinda have to agree, but I'd say that Spain in no way is less stupid or less short sighted perhaps more so.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Rich parts of the US are generally pleasant if overpriced for what they are.

The problem with the US is that it has a disproportionately large underclass of people who are just way stupider and more short sighted than the norm for Europeans or Orientals.

That stupidity is fundamentally a result of our selfish attitudes. I fail to see how economic disparities are the result of multiculturalism. Unless you are making a very particular kind of argument about the inherent superiority of certain races over others.

I think the point is he/she is making is immigrants are smarter, and culture has nothing to do with economics.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Rich parts of the US are generally pleasant if overpriced for what they are.

The problem with the US is that it has a disproportionately large underclass of people who are just way stupider and more short sighted than the norm for Europeans or Orientals.

That stupidity is fundamentally a result of our selfish attitudes.

No, it's mainly biological in origin.

Capitalist America is, if not always beautiful, quite functional and orderly, and sometimes very pleasant. Criminal underclass urban America is funded by the state.

[Conserative Morality]

Rich parts of the US are generally pleasant if overpriced for what they are.

The problem with the US is that it has a disproportionately large underclass of people who are just way stupider and more short sighted than the norm for Europeans or Orientals.

Yeah, I hate racists too.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Rich parts of the US are generally pleasant if overpriced for what they are.

The problem with the US is that it has a disproportionately large underclass of people who are just way stupider and more short sighted than the norm for Europeans or Orientals.

While I don't like the idea of dissing my nations people, I kinda have to agree, but I'd say that Spain in no way is less stupid or less short sighted perhaps more so.

"Spain" doesn't beat you up and take your wallet, particular people do.

America as a whole is obviously quite an effective country. But it is very unequal. That's not mainly because the government isn't taking money and moving it around etc., it's because the people there are very unequal in underlying ability.

[Conserative Morality]

What does the ethnic makeup of the outlying suburbs have to do with the cities themselves? That statement is almost entirely asinine.

Ask me this, is Maryland a good state? It's pratically a small state, and if I recall they put taxes on mostly everything including toilets.

Really good, actually. Out here in the panhandle it begins to break down on account of our three counties combined having the population of the average Maryland town outside of the Appalachians, but our education system is well-funded and one of the best in America, we're one of the richest states in terms of median income, we're leaders in biotech, and we have a really cool flag.

[Post War America]

That stupidity is fundamentally a result of our selfish attitudes.

No, it's mainly biological in origin.

Capitalist America is, if not always beautiful, quite functional and orderly, and sometimes very pleasant. Criminal underclass urban America is funded by the state.

So you are arguing that certain racial groups are inherently superior to others then?

Have you considered that perhaps that niceness in wealthy areas is fueling the poor conditions in others. That the vast disparity in conditions is a result of our lack of concern for society?

[Holy Tedalonia]

While I don't like the idea of dissing my nations people, I kinda have to agree, but I'd say that Spain in no way is less stupid or less short sighted perhaps more so.

"Spain" doesn't beat you up and take your wallet, particular people do.

America as a whole is obviously quite an effective country. But it is very unequal. That's not mainly because the government isn't taking money and moving it around etc., it's because the people there are very unequal in underlying ability.

To be fair, some of Spain's actions throughout history have been very shortsighted.

[Conserative Morality]

HMS QE is right, at least as far as DC and Tokyo go--I have lived in both.

Really? I've never felt unsafe in DC, and I've wandered the streets at night before.

[The East Marches II]

HMS QE is right, at least as far as DC and Tokyo go--I have lived in both.

Really? I've never felt unsafe in DC, and I've wandered the streets at night before.

You are a brave man

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

No, it's mainly biological in origin.

Capitalist America is, if not always beautiful, quite functional and orderly, and sometimes very pleasant. Criminal underclass urban America is funded by the state.

So you are arguing that certain racial groups are inherently superior to others then?

It's a crude restatement, to which I'd apply many caveats, but it's approximately right yes.

Have you considered that perhaps that niceness in wealthy areas is fueling the poor conditions in others.

I have. It isn't true. Many countries only have shitty conditions. And yet, not always worse people. Stettin is way shittier than Washington DC but the people there are not as dangerous, unpleasant, or stupid.

That the vast disparity in conditions is a result of our lack of concern for society?

No, it's biological in origin.

[Conserative Morality]

You are a brave man

I didn't feel brave, tbh. I just felt lost. Fucking flatland city not having hilltop churches to navigate by.

[Albrenia]

So you are arguing that certain racial groups are inherently superior to others then?

It's a crude restatement, to which I'd apply many caveats, but it's approximately right yes.

Have you considered that perhaps that niceness in wealthy areas is fueling the poor conditions in others.

I have. It isn't true. Many countries only have shitty conditions. And yet, not always worse people. Stettin is way shittier than Washington DC but the people there are not as dangerous, unpleasant, or stupid.

That the vast disparity in conditions is a result of our lack of concern for society?

No, it's biological in origin.

Assuming what you say is true, how much of an effect does this biological effect have? Is it a slight tendency, an overwhelming majority, or something else?

Even if people are, in fact, not created equal. I'd still be very cautious about any sort of discrimination based on biology.

[Conserative Morality]

I will say that I have never gotten used to the crazy people who get on the Metro at peak hours and ramble on in the middle of the car while everyone tries to ignore them (or does ignore them? sometimes it feels like I'm the only one weirded out by it)