Is Diversity and Multiculturalism a Good or Bad Thing?

[The East Marches II]

Compared to him you are a Bolshevik. He has good arguments tbf.

Oy vey, I'm agreeing with the Commies.

Look, TEM, buddy, most of HMS' arguments revolve around IQ testing. That only accurately measures individual knowledge.

If you wanted to actually determine whether or not there's some intrinsic genetic intellectual difference between Blacks and other races, you'd have to measure actual genetic variables. Things like Neocortex size, variations in quantity of neurons, and amounts of grey matter at birth would be good areas of study for determining that sort of thing. IQ testing is not.

I know that your own experiences with Black people, given where you live, mustn't be particularly good. But you don't honestly believe this mumbo jumbo, do you?

Really rather, my experiences with the Irish lead me to the conclusion that the Victorians did in fact know what they were talking about. Specifically Northern Ireland.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Compared to him you are a Bolshevik. He has good arguments tbf.

Oy vey, I'm agreeing with the Commies.

Look, TEM, buddy, most of HMS' arguments revolve around IQ testing. That only accurately measures individual knowledge.

IQ tests don't measure knowledge, they measure abstract problem solving ability. This is what an IQ test question looks like:



Anyway the whole line of attack that IQ tests don't work is flaccid because I am only presenting IQ tests as confirming the same old trends we are all aware of: whites do way better than blacks at intellectually loaded tasks even at the same time that blacks are more than competitive in less intellectual tasks like producing pop music and are well on their way to driving whites entirely out of some sporting fields like basketball and track and field.

[The East Marches II]

What? Why would they test morality?!

Morality is actually an important part of intelligence seeing as how it relates to: Behavior, cognition, social ability, etc...

Sure, on it's own you might not consider it useful, but when you pair it to other parts of intelligence it can actually help to paint a good picture of someone's intelligence and ability.

What does morality have to do with intelligence though? Your explanation was trash. They have nothing to do with each other.

[Albrenia]

What is even happening with this thread?

[Torrocca]

Oy vey, I'm agreeing with the Commies.

Look, TEM, buddy, most of HMS' arguments revolve around IQ testing. That only accurately measures individual knowledge.

IQ tests don't measure knowledge, they measure abstract problem solving ability. This is what an IQ test question looks like:



Anyway the whole line of attack that IQ tests don't work is flaccid because I am only presenting IQ tests as confirming the same old trends we are all aware of: whites do way better than blacks at intellectually loaded tasks even at the same time that blacks are more than competitive in less intellectual tasks like producing pop music and are well on their way to driving whites entirely out of some sporting fields like basketball and track and field.

... What the fuck kinda test is that?

[Sanctissima]

Oy vey, I'm agreeing with the Commies.

Look, TEM, buddy, most of HMS' arguments revolve around IQ testing. That only accurately measures individual knowledge.

If you wanted to actually determine whether or not there's some intrinsic genetic intellectual difference between Blacks and other races, you'd have to measure actual genetic variables. Things like Neocortex size, variations in quantity of neurons, and amounts of grey matter at birth would be good areas of study for determining that sort of thing. IQ testing is not.

I know that your own experiences with Black people, given where you live, mustn't be particularly good. But you don't honestly believe this mumbo jumbo, do you?

Really rather, my experiences with the Irish lead me to the conclusion that the Victorians did in fact know what they were talking about. Specifically Northern Ireland.

N-no, what utter nonsense.

Now gib compensation for the Great Potato Famine, you Sassanach.

[New haven america]

What is even happening with this thread?

They're discussing IQ test validity as it relates to race/culture.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

IQ tests don't measure knowledge, they measure abstract problem solving ability. This is what an IQ test question looks like:



Anyway the whole line of attack that IQ tests don't work is flaccid because I am only presenting IQ tests as confirming the same old trends we are all aware of: whites do way better than blacks at intellectually loaded tasks even at the same time that blacks are more than competitive in less intellectual tasks like producing pop music and are well on their way to driving whites entirely out of some sporting fields like basketball and track and field.

... What the fuck kinda test is that?

That a kinda fuckin' smart thingy test.

[Tekeristan]

IQ's rise when education and stable environments are introduced, if you wanted to use your own 'beloved' scale of supremacy.

Race gaps in IQs within countries are very stable.

Are they migrants/immigrants/refugees?
Do they have access to the same levels of education, do they participate in such?
Do they make up a class or group that puts less emphasis on education as a standard?

You seem very intent on making this a very simple issue when, in fact, it is not. The people who actually study this stuff, and brains, you know what they say?
We have little idea on how the brain actually works. You're not an expert on IQ's, because then you would also know that this isn't how they are meant to be interpreted.
In addition, you also seem to imply that it's static: when it very well is not. Environmental factors play a much, much larger role than genetic factors do.

You're making yourself off to be an IQ fetishist, as if it means something.

[San Lumen]

IQ's rise when education and stable environments are introduced, if you wanted to use your own 'beloved' scale of supremacy.

Race gaps in IQs within countries are very stable.

You were just shown how your belief that those of certain races are less intelligent then others is false. Yet you keep coming up with ways to discredit anyone whose not white in certain fields as being unimportant. The world would have been a very different place if not for George Washington Carver. There's an example of a extremely important Black scientist.

If you visit a college town like Providence or Cambridge, MA or Boulder you find research scientists and academics from all backgrounds and ethnicities thus proving my point of how diversity and multiculturalism is a good thing.

And Neil DeGrasse Tyson being director of the Hayden Planetarium isn't a position he got because he's black. He earned it because he's a world renowned astrophysicist and one of the most brilliant people in the world.

[Torrocca]

... What the fuck kinda test is that?

That a kinda fuckin' smart thingy test.

I'm not knowledgeable in whatever abstract post-futurist bullshit nonsense that is; it has no basis in determining my IQ.

[Albrenia]

What is even happening with this thread?

They're discussing IQ test validity as it relates to race/culture.

What does that have to do with Multiculturalism being good or bad though? Unless we've fallen all the way down to the 'they'll dilute our superior genepool' argument.

[The East Marches II]

Really rather, my experiences with the Irish lead me to the conclusion that the Victorians did in fact know what they were talking about. Specifically Northern Ireland.

N-no, what utter nonsense.

Now gib compensation for the Great Potato Famine, you Sassanach.

>tfw you think I'm memeing

I'm serious my man. I've the same opinion when it comes to the various Turks too. You'll never see a more striking example of that in action than their recent woes.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Race gaps in IQs within countries are very stable.

Are they migrants/immigrants/refugees?
Do they have access to the same levels of education, do they participate in such?
Do they make up a class or group that puts less emphasis on education as a standard?

You seem very intent on making this a very simple issue when, in fact, it is not. The people who actually study this stuff, and brains, you know what they say?
We have little idea on how the brain actually works. You're not an expert on IQ's, because then you would also know that this isn't how they are meant to be interpreted.
In addition, you also seem to imply that it's static: when it very well is not. Environmental factors play a much, much larger role than genetic factors do.

You're making yourself off to be an IQ fetishist, as if it means something.

This is an argument without, well, an argument. IQ tests predict some groups are smarter than others, and that's consistent with the real world. It's for people who believe despite this powerful evidence that everyone is intellectually equal anyway to make their case. I'm not saying it's impossible, but what do I hear from this group in terms of actual evidence? Silence...

[Austrasien]

Still a growth, clearly not stagnant,

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/productivity

Productivity in Germany increased to 105.30 Index Points in June from 103.70 Index Points in May of 2017. Productivity in Germany averaged 58.55 Index Points from 1962 until 2017, reaching an all time high of 105.80 Index Points in July of 2011 and a record low of 17 Index Points in February of 1962.

Actually its technically negative as the all-time high was in 2011 and it is, last I checked, 2017. What were you trying to prove again?

Not when Germany actuality installed it's diversity and multiculturalism in to a united Germany. Sense that is in there constitution, look and see that from 1991 to now, it has experienced massive growth.

The annualized rate of change in real GDP per German worker at constant prices from 1991-2016 is about 1.07%. Which is not exactly massive.



But the real story is that productivity growth in western countries has been trending relentlessly down since the 1970s and since 2008 has been approaching stagnation. Which coincides with the modern period of rapidly increasing immigration, especially of visible minority populations. Increasing diversity and rate of productivity growth are essentially anti-correlated. Which doesn't mean there is a direct causal relationship, but it flies in the face of the claim that increasing diversity leads to increased economic productivity. The peak of productivity growth occurred when western countries were still mostly homogenous.

[Reformed Corea]

Oy vey, I'm agreeing with the Commies.

Look, TEM, buddy, most of HMS' arguments revolve around IQ testing. That only accurately measures individual knowledge.

IQ tests don't measure knowledge, they measure abstract problem solving ability. This is what an IQ test question looks like:



Anyway the whole line of attack that IQ tests don't work is flaccid because I am only presenting IQ tests as confirming the same old trends we are all aware of: whites do way better than blacks at intellectually loaded tasks even at the same time that blacks are more than competitive in less intellectual tasks like producing pop music and are well on their way to driving whites entirely out of some sporting fields like basketball and track and field.

First option.

[Tekeristan]

Are they migrants/immigrants/refugees?
Do they have access to the same levels of education, do they participate in such?
Do they make up a class or group that puts less emphasis on education as a standard?

You seem very intent on making this a very simple issue when, in fact, it is not. The people who actually study this stuff, and brains, you know what they say?
We have little idea on how the brain actually works. You're not an expert on IQ's, because then you would also know that this isn't how they are meant to be interpreted.
In addition, you also seem to imply that it's static: when it very well is not. Environmental factors play a much, much larger role than genetic factors do.

You're making yourself off to be an IQ fetishist, as if it means something.

This is an argument without, well, an argument. IQ tests predict some groups are smarter than others, and that's consistent with the real world. It's for people who believe despite this powerful evidence that everyone is intellectually equal anyway to make their case. I'm not saying it's impossible, but what do I hear from this group in terms of actual evidence? Silence...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15342553

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v92/n ... lback=true

https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/relea ... -2-130.pdf

What is IQ? : It is skills at finding patterns in symbols and an attempt at measuring the ability to be good at different kinds of cognitive tasks.

Race "Realism" is an ideology that depends on unadjusted comparisons, data sets where the majority of countries have been interpolated and based on convenience samples, does not present what proportion of IQ variation is caused by variation in this variable. It also assumes traditional racial categories, which is not evidence-based.

So, I'll say it again, get out of here with that last-century ballux which is an excuse to do horrific acts against others, and put the skull measuring tools away.

[Reformed Corea]

This is an argument without, well, an argument. IQ tests predict some groups are smarter than others, and that's consistent with the real world. It's for people who believe despite this powerful evidence that everyone is intellectually equal anyway to make their case. I'm not saying it's impossible, but what do I hear from this group in terms of actual evidence? Silence...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15342553

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v92/n ... lback=true

https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/relea ... -2-130.pdf

What is IQ? : It is skills at finding patterns in symbols and an attempt at measuring the ability to be good at different kinds of cognitive tasks.

Race "Realism" is an ideology that depends on unadjusted comparisons, data sets where the majority of countries have been interpolated and based on convenience samples, does not present what proportion of IQ variation is caused by variation in this variable. It also assumes traditional racial categories, which is not evidence-based.

So, I'll say it again, get out of here with that last-century ballux which is an excuse to do horrific acts against others, and put the skull measuring tools away.

The question is: Does IQ change over time?

[Sanctissima]

N-no, what utter nonsense.

Now gib compensation for the Great Potato Famine, you Sassanach.

(Image)

>tfw you think I'm memeing

I'm serious my man. I've the same opinion when it comes to the various Turks too. You'll never see a more striking example of that in action than their recent woes.

All I know is that the civilization destroyers of eons ago were the Germanics. The overwhelming majority of them were stupid illiterate barbarians who raped, looted and pillaged their way across Europe.

Naturally, I don't think anyone would argue that modern-day Germans are intellectually inferior savages.

Civilization, or rather the lack thereof, creates the savage. Not race or ethnicity.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Race gaps in IQs within countries are very stable.

You were just shown how your belief that those of certain races are less intelligent then others is false.

?

???

?????

Q: What comes next in the sequence?

Yet you keep coming up with ways to discredit anyone whose not white in certain fields as being unimportant. The world would have been a very different place if not for George Washington Carver. There's an example of a extremely important Black scientist.

Huh? Looking again through the wikipedia, I still can't tell what even his boosters are claiming he did. He promoted crop rotation, something that had been known for centuries? He did experiments into crop rotation that apparently suggested everyone should be farming peanuts as a stable cereal, something which notably... didn't exactly take off? I'm not American and until I started encountering American race debates on the internet I'd never even heard of this person.

If you visit a college town like Providence or Cambridge, MA or Boulder you find research scientists and academics from all backgrounds and ethnicities thus proving my point of how diversity and multiculturalism is a good thing.

I work in a mathematical science type job and my department is about what you'd expect: about 60% white (of whom half or so are Jews), 30% East Asian, 10% South Asian.

And Neil DeGrasse Tyson being director of the Hayden Planetarium isn't a position he got because he's black. He earned it because he's a world renowned astrophysicist and one of the most brilliant people in the world.

What a load of rubbish. He got this position - which is a non-scientific position at a non-research institution - after four years as a post doc in which he only published one actual paper as a first author. His profile wasn't strong enough to get a research job anywhere, and indeed he did not get a research job anywhere. No one who actually wanted a career in astrophysics, and thought he could get one, would accept the offer to become a senior administrator at an edutainment complex. And doubtless he was so highly sought after for this administration job not on the basis of his (non-existence) experience in administration, but rather on account that he was black.

[Tekeristan]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15342553

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v92/n ... lback=true

https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/relea ... -2-130.pdf

What is IQ? : It is skills at finding patterns in symbols and an attempt at measuring the ability to be good at different kinds of cognitive tasks.

Race "Realism" is an ideology that depends on unadjusted comparisons, data sets where the majority of countries have been interpolated and based on convenience samples, does not present what proportion of IQ variation is caused by variation in this variable. It also assumes traditional racial categories, which is not evidence-based.

So, I'll say it again, get out of here with that last-century ballux which is an excuse to do horrific acts against others, and put the skull measuring tools away.

The question is: Does IQ change over time?

Yes. It's heavily, I'd say massively dominantly, influenced by environmental factors.
AKA: Do you get an education or not? Do you get to use it?

[Reformed Corea]

>tfw you think I'm memeing

I'm serious my man. I've the same opinion when it comes to the various Turks too. You'll never see a more striking example of that in action than their recent woes.

All I know is that the civilization destroyers of eons ago were the Germanics. The overwhelming majority of them were stupid illiterate barbarians who raped, looted and pillaged their way across Europe.

Naturally, I don't think anyone would argue that modern-day Germans are intellectually inferior savages.

Civilization, or rather the lack thereof, creates the savage. Not race or ethnicity.

Hitler created savage through the pretext of race.

[Tekeristan]

All I know is that the civilization destroyers of eons ago were the Germanics. The overwhelming majority of them were stupid illiterate barbarians who raped, looted and pillaged their way across Europe.

Naturally, I don't think anyone would argue that modern-day Germans are intellectually inferior savages.

Civilization, or rather the lack thereof, creates the savage. Not race or ethnicity.

Hitler created savage through the pretext of race.

The great big MASSIVE irony in regards to Racialism, especially in use by White Supremacists, is they would better support Asian or Jewish supremacy than white supremacy.

[The East Marches II]

>tfw you think I'm memeing

I'm serious my man. I've the same opinion when it comes to the various Turks too. You'll never see a more striking example of that in action than their recent woes.

All I know is that the civilization destroyers of eons ago were the Germanics. The overwhelming majority of them were stupid illiterate barbarians who raped, looted and pillaged their way across Europe.

Naturally, I don't think anyone would argue that modern-day Germans are intellectually inferior savages.

Civilization, or rather the lack thereof, creates the savage. Not race or ethnicity.

Oh look it's the Roman Internet Defense Force day :^)

>t-they were just b-barbarians

Sure, sure. Sell your story to somebody else.

That being said, they've not changed much have they?

[Reformed Corea]

Hitler created savage through the pretext of race.

The great big MASSIVE irony in regards to Racialism, especially in use by White Supremacists, is they would better support Asian or Jewish supremacy than white supremacy.

That's the usual case.