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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:02 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:remember 1905 huh forgot you britisher

End of the Russo-Japanese war?
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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:03 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:well the british stirred up anti-hindu /anti-muslim sentiments and thus played some role in the partition not major but minor and if the british had not been their many things could have happend


I never said anything about the partition. The only reason I included Islamabad in my statement is that it was under British jurisdiction as a part of 'British India' and were thus obliged to have English as a major language. Without the stabilizing influence of English as a lingua franca, arguably, Pakistan and India would not have existed, and we would see a collection of tribal and religious-based states, like I said. Perhaps even the Indian states could be under Chinese suzerainty now, who knows.

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Jedi 999
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Postby Jedi 999 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:03 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:remember 1905 huh forgot you britisher

End of the Russo-Japanese war?

no partiton of bengal

you britshers forgot ?
Last edited by Jedi 999 on Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tagmatium
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Postby Tagmatium » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:04 pm

See, I think one of your main issues is that there's too much "us vs. them" in your mind. I'm one of the many "Britishers" who has an indifferent view of colonialism - I don't know enough to really say anything. But, since you've regularly gone out of your way to paint us, as an entire nation, as racists and pro-colonial jingoistic vampires or something, I've found myself in disagreement with many of your posts. And, therefore, you've seen fit to paint me as something else.

Not everyone in Britain thinks the empire was great, but you discount anything we say as propaganda and lies without bothering to even look, I swear.

Hell, you'll either disregard this post or accuse me of being racist and an empire-lover, when if you'd read it...
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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:05 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:remember 1905 huh forgot you britisher

End of the Russo-Japanese war?

no partiton of bengal


If India wants to unite peacefully with its Muslim "brothers", why did they have so many wars after the British left?
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When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against each other through class warfare, race hatred, or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom and destroy our very lives.


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Cameroi
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Postby Cameroi » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:05 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Cameroi wrote:i'm kind of having a hard time seeing the point of ragging on yesterday's dead horses, when today's problems are real and immediate.

Because 'Yesterday's dead horses' have an effect on today's real problems. History influences the present, furthermore, perception of history influences the present.

These 'Dead horses' remain incredibly important in today's world.


only because people choose to obsess on them and imagine them scripts to be guided by.

which IS part of the problem and NOT of any sort of solution.
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Jedi 999
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Postby Jedi 999 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:05 pm

Avenio wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:well the british stirred up anti-hindu /anti-muslim sentiments and thus played some role in the partition not major but minor and if the british had not been their many things could have happend


I never said anything about the partition. The only reason I included Islamabad in my statement is that it was under British jurisdiction as a part of 'British India' and were thus obliged to have English as a major language. Without the stabilizing influence of English as a lingua franca, arguably, Pakistan and India would not have existed, and we would see a collection of tribal and religious-based states, like I said. Perhaps even the Indian states could be under Chinese suzerainty now, who knows.

well i think positive and india would have been better off without the brits they stole much of india's wealth

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:05 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:no partiton of bengal

you britshers forgot ?

You mean when the British did their best to lessen tensions by splitting an area already very much split by geography to improve administration?

Those monsters!
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Jedi 999
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Postby Jedi 999 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:06 pm

SD_Film Artists wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:remember 1905 huh forgot you britisher

End of the Russo-Japanese war?

no partiton of bengal


If India wants to unite peacefully with its Muslim "brothers", why did they have so many wars after the British left?

kashmir and the britishers won by dividing us

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Jedi 999
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Postby Jedi 999 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:07 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:no partiton of bengal

you britshers forgot ?

You mean when the British did their best to lessen tensions by splitting an area already very much split by geography to improve administration?

Those monsters!

liar they did it too increase tension between the hindus and muslims

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Tagmatium
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Postby Tagmatium » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:07 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:
Raul Caribe wrote:not trying to pic a fight but what was the literacy rate prior to English rule?
no records

Ha, brilliant.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:08 pm

Cameroi wrote:only because people choose to obsess on them and imagine them scripts to be guided by.

which IS part of the problem and NOT of any sort of solution.

History is important, history shows us how people have acted in the past, history shows us humanity at it's best and worst, furthermore, history shows humanity. Period. History tells us everything about power, about mankind, it's like Machiavelli without the commentary. People look to the past for guidance because they want to be guided, and because they are human.

So unless you plan to exterminate the human race, please, stop complaining.
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Dododecapod
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Postby Dododecapod » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:08 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:
Avenio wrote:I'll just repost this for emphasis, as it was taken from your previous thread;

According to this map, shortly before the Bengal famine you mentioned, India was a very divided place. Kingdoms, principalities and smaller states were constantly carving out territory in what were most likely fierce internecine conflicts. (Another thing you fail to address in your anti-colonial tirade) These conflicts had been going on for millenia, dating all of the way back to the first Muslim invasions back in the twelfth century, (If memory serves) and showed no intention of slowing down. Had the British (Or any other colonial power, for that matter) not gotten involved in the subcontinent at all, come the turn of the 21st century, I would no doubt think that India would be a collection of small, tribal-tied states bitterly fighting over resources.

Though colonialism has wrought terrible, terrible things onto the subcontinent, (And even in places like my home country, Canada) simply glossing it over as 'evil' and accusing us Anglo-Saxons of being 'racist' is ignoring a significant piece of the puzzle. History cannot be seen in black-or-white, it has to be appreciated and understood for the murky shade of grey it is, warts and all.


In conclusion, even though the British did terrible things to India and the subcontinent, they did give them two important things. The first is a lingua franca, English, that practically everyone, from Sri Lanka to Islamabad, had to learn in order to function in a British-dominated society. Secondly, the British presence itself served as an enormous motivator; everyone, whether they were Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist or Christian, they all disliked the British and wanted independance.

In short, if the British hadn't colonized India, it would be a largely tribal, violent and undeveloped place, with nations largely based upon ethnic or religious divides constantly bickering with one another and little hope of meaningful unity.


well the british stirred up anti-hindu /anti-muslim sentiments and thus played some role in the partition not major but minor and if the british had not been their many things could have happend


No. British policy was to not engage in religious matters; not a particularly successful policy, actually, and one which almost certainly had a hand in the lead-up to the Indian Mutiny, but one which had a major effect in the suppression of inter-religious violence during the period of British rule. Being strongly Christian-biased, they treated Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus more or less equally.

The partition was largely spawned by pressures from within the subcontinent. Of course, there would have been no partition without the British - because there would have been no unified India to partition.
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Conserative Morality
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Founded: Aug 24, 2007
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:08 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:liar they did it too increase tension between the hindus and muslims

Because pandering to the Hindus when there's a large Muslim minority decreases tension?
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Jedi 999
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Postby Jedi 999 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:09 pm

Dododecapod wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:
Avenio wrote:I'll just repost this for emphasis, as it was taken from your previous thread;

According to this map, shortly before the Bengal famine you mentioned, India was a very divided place. Kingdoms, principalities and smaller states were constantly carving out territory in what were most likely fierce internecine conflicts. (Another thing you fail to address in your anti-colonial tirade) These conflicts had been going on for millenia, dating all of the way back to the first Muslim invasions back in the twelfth century, (If memory serves) and showed no intention of slowing down. Had the British (Or any other colonial power, for that matter) not gotten involved in the subcontinent at all, come the turn of the 21st century, I would no doubt think that India would be a collection of small, tribal-tied states bitterly fighting over resources.

Though colonialism has wrought terrible, terrible things onto the subcontinent, (And even in places like my home country, Canada) simply glossing it over as 'evil' and accusing us Anglo-Saxons of being 'racist' is ignoring a significant piece of the puzzle. History cannot be seen in black-or-white, it has to be appreciated and understood for the murky shade of grey it is, warts and all.


In conclusion, even though the British did terrible things to India and the subcontinent, they did give them two important things. The first is a lingua franca, English, that practically everyone, from Sri Lanka to Islamabad, had to learn in order to function in a British-dominated society. Secondly, the British presence itself served as an enormous motivator; everyone, whether they were Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist or Christian, they all disliked the British and wanted independance.

In short, if the British hadn't colonized India, it would be a largely tribal, violent and undeveloped place, with nations largely based upon ethnic or religious divides constantly bickering with one another and little hope of meaningful unity.


well the british stirred up anti-hindu /anti-muslim sentiments and thus played some role in the partition not major but minor and if the british had not been their many things could have happend


No. British policy was to not engage in religious matters; not a particularly successful policy, actually, and one which almost certainly had a hand in the lead-up to the Indian Mutiny, but one which had a major effect in the suppression of inter-religious violence during the period of British rule. Being strongly Christian-biased, they treated Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus more or less equally.

The partition was largely spawned by pressures from within the subcontinent. Of course, there would have been no partition without the British - because there would have been no unified India to partition.


wrong they used divide and rule everywhere remember palestine guys they are champions at that

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Birnadia
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Postby Birnadia » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:09 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:note : this kind of ignorance angers me

Rofl irony.
[align=center]

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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:09 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:remember 1905 huh forgot you britisher

End of the Russo-Japanese war?

no partiton of bengal


If India wants to unite peacefully with its Muslim "brothers", why did they have so many wars after the British left?

kashmir and the britishers won by dividing us


Well in the latter half of the 20th century India and Pakistan done a pretty good job at keeping themselves divided.
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lurking NSG since 2005
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When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against each other through class warfare, race hatred, or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom and destroy our very lives.


Charlie Brooker wrote:It's spider season. Every year, right about now, thousands of the godless eight-legged bastards emerge from the bowels of hell (or the garden, whichever's nearest) with the sole intention of tormenting humankind. Spider season is like a live-action version of the videogame Doom.

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Jedi 999
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Postby Jedi 999 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:09 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:liar they did it too increase tension between the hindus and muslims

Because pandering to the Hindus when there's a large Muslim minority decreases tension?

wrong dont shamelessly lie and prove that there was no divide and rule motive behind it

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Tagmatium
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Postby Tagmatium » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:11 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:liar they did it too increase tension between the hindus and muslims

Because pandering to the Hindus when there's a large Muslim minority decreases tension?

wrong dont shamelessly lie and prove that there was no divide and rule motive behind it

Seriously...

Would it be better if we all just agreed with you, as this seems what you want us to do?
The above post may or may not be serious.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:11 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:wrong dont shamelessly lie and prove that there was no divide and rule motive behind it

I won't shamelessly lie. I'm not lying at all. They divided them to decrease tension and civil unrest.
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Jedi 999
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Postby Jedi 999 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:11 pm

As details of the plan became public knowledge, prominent Bengalis began a series of demonstrations against partition and a boycott of British products. While protest was mainly Hindu-led the Muslims nawab of Dhaka was also initially opposed to the plan, even though Dhaka would serve as capital of the new province. Baxter suggests that the "divide and rule" policy was the real reason for partition. Lord Curzon said, "Bengal united is a power; Bengali divided will pull in several different ways."[3

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Jedi 999
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Postby Jedi 999 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:12 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:wrong dont shamelessly lie and prove that there was no divide and rule motive behind it

I won't shamelessly lie. I'm not lying at all. They divided them to decrease tension and civil unrest.

wrong to increase tension and civil unrest since there was a strong anti british sentiment in bengal http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ent ... ngal_(1905)#Reason_for_Partition
Last edited by Jedi 999 on Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Birnadia
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Founded: Dec 21, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Birnadia » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:12 pm

EDIT: Just ignore this post, I think I forgot to take my smarty pills when I wrote this post. :p
Last edited by Birnadia on Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[align=center]

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Jedi 999
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Postby Jedi 999 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:12 pm

Birnadia wrote:
Jedi 999 wrote:As details of the plan became public knowledge, prominent Bengalis began a series of demonstrations against partition and a boycott of British products. While protest was mainly Hindu-led the Muslims nawab of Dhaka was also initially opposed to the plan, even though Dhaka would serve as capital of the new province. Baxter suggests that the "divide and rule" policy was the real reason for partition. Lord Curzon said, "Bengal united is a power; Bengali divided will pull in several different ways."[3

Obvious copy/paste from Wikipedia is obvious.

smart its called source which you lack

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Conserative Morality
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Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:12 pm

Jedi 999 wrote:As details of the plan became public knowledge, prominent Bengalis began a series of demonstrations against partition and a boycott of British products. While protest was mainly Hindu-led the Muslims nawab of Dhaka was also initially opposed to the plan, even though Dhaka would serve as capital of the new province. Baxter suggests that the "divide and rule" policy was the real reason for partition. Lord Curzon said, "Bengal united is a power; Bengali divided will pull in several different ways."[3

Notice the notice.
This article may contain original research. Please improve it by verifying the claims made and adding references. Statements consisting only of original research may be removed. More details may be available on the talk page
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