UK Politics Thread VII: Wake me DUP inside [can't wake UUP]

[Ostroeuropa]

In truth, what i'd really try and do is demand an indefinite suspension on free travel and migration rules in the EU until our institutions are sorted out and "For the duration of the negotiations", then immediately cap immigration from outside the EU to a few thousand a year on top of that. If the EU refuses to yield that, claim we're adhering to the principles of the EU by making free movement actually work, and that shit-tier free movement endangers free movement as a whole as this fiasco clearly demonstrates, and just do it while stonewalling.

Then try a good faith attempt at negotiating our way out of the EU, taking the full 2 years, and waiting to see if lack of immigrants causes a major clusterfuck that makes everyone scramble to take it back and say they didn't mean it.

Then, if support to remain was sufficient (70 or over), i'd offer part of the rebate as compensation and return to the EU, with the indefinite suspension in place, and try and fix our instittuions to be less fucking tory and more egalitarian and such so immigrants weren't such a problem, alongside ridding ourselves of this islamophiliac attitude.

I'd then frame the thing as an EU crisis of confidence, point out similar movements elsewhere in the EU, and demand a constitutonal convention across the EU, with each nation allows to organize their delegates as they see fit, though some form of democratic selection is necessary.

Simultaneously, i'd have one brexit office figuring out how to leave, and one canzuk office figuring out how to form a new commonwealth.

I would make it clear to the public from the outset that if support to leave dips below 30%, I will take that as a sign to have a second referendum, and don't care if people whine about that. So long as it remains above 30, the people have spoken.

I'd tell spain and ireland before this shit started that they should not bring up shared sovereignty at any point, or we'll regard that as hostile. That is a matter to be decided by the people of NI and gibraltar, at their leisure.

I'm confident that if the british people saw their government actually taking action to assimilate immigrants and wasn't pandering to backwards elements of their culture (Like circumcision) and such, support for leaving would drop.

In addition, the hype around a potential constitutional convention would re-invigorate enthusiasm for remaining, especially when I unveiled just how decentralized I intended to make the decision making process for what our delegation should say.

If we end up leaving, that'll be difficult, but workable with the Canzuk office drumming up alternatives.

Conversely, May seems to be running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

[Ostroeuropa]

Alternatively, if forced to leave, i'd make the case that global market instability should be avoided for everyones benefit, and we should transition out of the current arrangement. (Remain in the market area, not the migration area, with each 5 years or so bringing us slightly more out of it.)
Make the geopolitical case for stability and such.

[Jackania yugo]

So...is it true that London is mostly middle eastern people now?

[The Huskar Social Union]

So...is it true that London is mostly middle eastern people now?

Nope

London White: 59.8% Asian: 18.5% Black: 13.3% Mixed: 5% Other: 3.4%

[Ostroeuropa]

So...is it true that London is mostly middle eastern people now?

No, it might be majority not white british (I'm not sure, but this kind of shell game would explain the myth rather than it being a straight up lie). but that's different, and doesn't justify portraying it as a white minority city like some scaremongers have. Britons are not the only white folk.

London White: 59.8% Asian: 18.5% Black: 13.3% Mixed: 5% Other: 3.4%

If 10% of london is white other europeans or americans, easily plausible, then "London now a city of immigrants! Only 49% are white british!" gets pushed. In scaremonger terms its unjustifiable.

If its crowing about race, it ignores other whites.
If its crowing about culture, its ignoring black britons, asian britons, etc.

[The Huskar Social Union]

So...is it true that London is mostly middle eastern people now?

No, it might be majority not white british (I'm not sure, but this kind of shell game would explain the myth rather than it being a straight up lie). but that's different, and doesn't justify portraying it as a white minority city like some scaremongers have. Britons are not the only white folk.

I think some of the inner parts are like... 49.8% white briton or something like that but most people in the greater london are are white, over 70% i believe. Not looked at it in a bit.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, it might be majority not white british (I'm not sure, but this kind of shell game would explain the myth rather than it being a straight up lie). but that's different, and doesn't justify portraying it as a white minority city like some scaremongers have. Britons are not the only white folk.

I think some of the inner parts are like... 49.8% white briton or something like that but most people in the greater london are are white, over 70% i believe. Not looked at it in a bit.

I think that kind of demography isn't useful for this subject, useful for others, but in terms of determining this kind of thing we're talking about, it's more useful to measure cultural affiliation.

Many black britons are entirely indistinguishable from white britons for all intents and purposes, and the same goes for all other races.
Whereas whites could be homophobic and regressive from eastern europe, for example.

It's worth alarm if London is majority people affiliated with foreign cultures in my opinion, and suggests too many immigrants or lack of proper assimilation.

Decline of white demography is worth concern only in as much as white issues and working class whites, and male issues, need to start being taken seriously and combatted alongside combating issues for other groups.

[Geilinor]

I think some of the inner parts are like... 49.8% white briton or something like that but most people in the greater london are are white, over 70% i believe. Not looked at it in a bit.

I think that kind of demography isn't useful for this subject, useful for others, but in terms of determining this kind of thing we're talking about, it's more useful to measure cultural affiliation.

Many black britons are entirely indistinguishable from white britons for all intents and purposes, and the same goes for all other races.
Whereas whites could be homophobic and regressive from eastern europe, for example.

It's worth alarm if London is majority people affiliated with foreign cultures in my opinion, and suggests too many immigrants or lack of proper assimilation.

Decline of white demography is worth concern only in as much as white issues and working class whites, and male issues, need to start being taken seriously and combatted alongside combating issues for other groups.

How do you determine which Britons are "affiliated with foreign cultures"? Their race?

[Ostroeuropa]

I think that kind of demography isn't useful for this subject, useful for others, but in terms of determining this kind of thing we're talking about, it's more useful to measure cultural affiliation.

Many black britons are entirely indistinguishable from white britons for all intents and purposes, and the same goes for all other races.
Whereas whites could be homophobic and regressive from eastern europe, for example.

It's worth alarm if London is majority people affiliated with foreign cultures in my opinion, and suggests too many immigrants or lack of proper assimilation.

Decline of white demography is worth concern only in as much as white issues and working class whites, and male issues, need to start being taken seriously and combatted alongside combating issues for other groups.

How do you determine which Britons are "affiliated with foreign cultures"? Their race?

Ask em, pretty much.
Also, that's an empirical question, and seeking to determine it as a matter of policy will unleash the scientific method on the problem, ideally, with incremental improvements in methodology to determine accurate results.

[Ifreann]

the EU will take the side of an EU member state over a third party

spain will pressure us on brexit because it can and because it can singlehandedly sink a deal if it felt like it

not their fault

they've been hands off with scotland specifically because they don't want to be seen to be meddling in the domestic affairs of member states, but if spain wants to start shit there's not many paths that can be taken

p.s. trying to fracture catalonia while 90% of tory voters think brexit is worth endangering the peace process isn't the best idea you've had

The point is to make it clear that we won't be ceding or sharing gibraltar under any circumstances, and even bringing it up is detrimental to them.
Otherwise, Spain will purposefully fuck the negotiations in such a way as to increase their chances of gaining gibraltar.

Drawing a red line will lower the chances of them doing that.

Ty're treating us like a third country, and we should treat them like one too. When the argentines tried to economically isolate the falklands, we responded. We didn't just sit there derping out.

Spain even bringing up the idea of shared sovereignty means they're discussing with ministers what conditions to subject us to to force us to capitulate to that demand.
We should respond to that and make it clear if they want to try and split off our citizens by pressuring us, they will make an enemy out of us, and we will try to fuck their country right back. That no matter what conditions they subject us to, even bringing up that idea again will result in us turning hostile and seeking to fracture spain by similar means, that this victory is beyond their grasp.

If Spain tries to control their own borders Britain will treat that as an act of war by the whole European Union and shitpost as hard as humanly possible until Spain submits and gives Gibraltar open borders with no concessions forever.

Truly the greatest nation. A shining light on the hill.

---

I think that kind of demography isn't useful for this subject, useful for others, but in terms of determining this kind of thing we're talking about, it's more useful to measure cultural affiliation.

Many black britons are entirely indistinguishable from white britons for all intents and purposes, and the same goes for all other races.
Whereas whites could be homophobic and regressive from eastern europe, for example.

It's worth alarm if London is majority people affiliated with foreign cultures in my opinion, and suggests too many immigrants or lack of proper assimilation.

Decline of white demography is worth concern only in as much as white issues and working class whites, and male issues, need to start being taken seriously and combatted alongside combating issues for other groups.

How do you determine which Britons are "affiliated with foreign cultures"? Their race?

Their headgear.

[Jackania yugo]

Was Brexit a good idea?

[Souseiseki]

Was Brexit a good idea?

nah

[The Liberated Territories]

Was Brexit a good idea?

Now you done it lad, now you triggered this whole thread into a flame war.

[Bakery Hill]

Was Brexit a good idea?

Best thing UK's done since the NHS.

[Vassenor]

Was Brexit a good idea?

Best thing UK's done since the NHS.

For what reason?

[Souseiseki]

Was Brexit a good idea?

Best thing UK's done since the NHS.

>implying the NHS isn't going to get fucked silly during a deal with the americans
>implying it wasn't almost fucked during TTIP until the EU saved it for us because our government are kinda idiots

[Ostroeuropa]

Best thing UK's done since the NHS.

>implying the NHS isn't going to get fucked silly during a deal with the americans
>implying it wasn't almost fucked during TTIP until the EU saved it for us because our government are kinda idiots

NHS Riots are probably the thing that'd make this country actually descend into chaos or have a revolution tbh. If the US fucks the NHS in a trade deal like you're implying, it would be too sudden a jump compared to the slow boil the tories have subjected it to over the last decades.
People would flip out.

[Bakery Hill]

Best thing UK's done since the NHS.

For what reason?

What do you mean? The UK has finally cast away from neoliberal Europe, like the late great Tony Benn always wanted. It has taken sovereignty back into its own hands in terms of the economy in terms of foreign policy. Now it can rebuild its shattered society with a popular mobilisation, nationalisations and solidarity with freedom loving people across the world.

[Bakery Hill]

Best thing UK's done since the NHS.

>implying the NHS isn't going to get fucked silly during a deal with the americans
>implying it wasn't almost fucked during TTIP until the EU saved it for us because our government are kinda idiots

Why do you have so little faith in your working class that you think you have to rely on a slightly less sociopathic class of elites to ensure the popular good?

[Souseiseki]

For what reason?

What do you mean? The UK has finally cast away from neoliberal Europe, like the late great Tony Benn always wanted. It has taken sovereignty back into its own hands in terms of the economy in terms of foreign policy. Now it can rebuild its shattered society with a popular mobilisation, nationalisations and solidarity with freedom loving people across the world.

yeah, calls us when that happens

[Vassenor]

Best thing UK's done since the NHS.

>implying the NHS isn't going to get fucked silly during a deal with the americans
>implying it wasn't almost fucked during TTIP until the EU saved it for us because our government are kinda idiots

But the £350 million a week...

[Bakery Hill]

>implying the NHS isn't going to get fucked silly during a deal with the americans
>implying it wasn't almost fucked during TTIP until the EU saved it for us because our government are kinda idiots

NHS Riots are probably the thing that'd make this country actually descend into chaos or have a revolution tbh. If the US fucks the NHS in a trade deal like you're implying, it would be too sudden a jump compared to the slow boil the tories have subjected it to over the last decades.
People would flip out.

Well it seems liberals no longer believe in the popular will and the basic goodness of people.

[Bakery Hill]

What do you mean? The UK has finally cast away from neoliberal Europe, like the late great Tony Benn always wanted. It has taken sovereignty back into its own hands in terms of the economy in terms of foreign policy. Now it can rebuild its shattered society with a popular mobilisation, nationalisations and solidarity with freedom loving people across the world.

yeah, calls us when that happens

You need a democratic socialist victory and an organised working class social movement. You're closer to that than you have been in forty years. And you want to throw it all away for Brussels? Fuck me dead.

[Jackania yugo]

For what reason?

What do you mean? The UK has finally cast away from neoliberal Europe, like the late great Tony Benn always wanted. It has taken sovereignty back into its own hands in terms of the economy in terms of foreign policy. Now it can rebuild its shattered society with a popular mobilisation, nationalisations and solidarity with freedom loving people across the world.

What's a neoliberal. Arn't they like the regressive left?

[Souseiseki]

yeah, calls us when that happens

You need a democratic socialist victory and an organised working class social movement. You're closer to that than you have been in forty years. And you want to throw it all away for Brussels? Fuck me dead.

how is leaving the EU to pursue tory dreams of being the next singapore going to bring us to a socialist paradise?