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UK Politics Thread VII: Wake me DUP inside [can't wake UUP]

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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:09 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:https://theintercept.com/2017/07/10/josh-walker-isis-uk-terrorism-charge-ypg-syria/

Man you guys are doing a great job fighting terrorism


(Quotes from article.)

— he collected information “of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism.”


So he knew something that the police think it's illegal to know.

- due to court-ordered reporting restrictions that have prevented news organizations in the U.K. from disclosing information


And we're not really supposed to talk about it, or weren't until recently.
- Walker had read George Orwell’s “Homage to Catalonia,” which describes the author’s journey to fight in the Spanish Civil War ... He was inspired by these tales and saw parallels

Right, makes sense.

- He also felt an affinity for the Kurdish people, who have faced repression across the Middle East for decades, particularly in Turkey, where even teaching children to speak Kurdish remains a hotly contested subject after being banned for the better part of a century. Walker, who was born in Wales, saw some similarities between the plight of the Kurds and that of the Welsh people, whose own language was suppressed in favor of English in some Welsh schools during the latter part of the 19th century.


Oh for fucks sake.

- It’s about solidarity — real solidarity.”


Well, he did travel miles to shoot people in the desert without training or organizational help and stuff, so I don't know what I was expecting.

- noted that he had read “Democratic Confederalism,” a pamphlet authored by Abdullah Öcalan, one of the founding members of the militant Kurdistan Workers’ Party. Öcalan’s 47-page text — heavily influenced by anarchist and libertarian theory — outlines his vision of a stateless, participatory democracy that is controlled and structured at a grassroots level through voluntary meetings and councils.


COMMUNISTS.
DEM REDS.
*hysteria intensifies*

At first, Walker was concerned that the British government might try to prevent him from going to the war-torn region.


Probably not if you get the Kurds on their end to verify you're meeting them and such. Presumably, some of them can end up vouching for your correspondence and our government will know who they are.

In a bid to avoid any potential online surveillance, he limited his contact with the Rojava Facebook group to only a few messages and restrained himself from performing even the most basic Google searches about, for example, learning to speak Kurdish.


Okay, so he thought he was doing something wrong and acted shady about it, but then, the case is about a bunch of authoritarian bullshit, not this.

Then a bunch of humanitarian stuff happens interspersed with the horrors of war, including a Welsh accent slowly sliding into a Kurdish hybrid accent.

As soon as he got through the passport gate, Walker was approached by one of the suit-wearing men


Those ones, you know the ones.

The female detective read him his rights and told him he was being arrested on suspicion of involvement in the “commission, preparation, or instigation of acts of terrorism.”


Right, because he hid a bunch of internet searches, acted shifty as fuck, then disappeared to the middle east combat zone without telling anybody why, and then the police raided his apartment, realized what type of person he was, and just waved around a certain cookbook and acted like it was what they were looking for the whole time.

Robert Jenrick, a Conservative member of Parliament, said during the discussion that he had personally been in contact with the families of 20 British anti-Islamic State fighters. Two of the 20, he said, had been arrested under the Terrorism Act; four were questioned but not arrested; and 14 came and went at will, unquestioned. In several publicly reported cases in the U.K., returning fighters have been arrested or questioned but then not charged. That is what makes Walker’s case particularly unusual.


They could just make it a crime to intentionally travel overseas to fight in wars without asking first. Not like, terrorism level, but a crime.

I think this bit is the best part though.

Walker says that he downloaded an extract of the “Cookbook” while at university, where much of his time was spent learning about the military, intelligence agencies, and counterterrorism. He participated in a role-playing group called the Crisis Games Society, which organized simulations of major political or security crises in an effort to educate students about decision-making in emergency situations. On one occasion, Walker took part in a game in which one team of students performed the role of the security services, and another team played the part of terrorists plotting an attack; the groups were separated in different rooms and had to try to outwit each other. They used the “Anarchist Cookbook” as part of their research for the terrorist aspect.


Lol. No, we should be stupid instead and ban ideas, so sayeth the government.


It happens. One of my lecturers told us about an old student of theirs who was arrested for downloading an excerpt from the book for a research assignment. They were released once they demonstrated that point.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:23 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
(Quotes from article.)



So he knew something that the police think it's illegal to know.


Well, fuck, better arrest every chemistry student in the country, right?

Most of the engineers will have to go, too.

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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:30 am

I remember the anarchist cookbook.

I did not get in trouble for getting an excerpt of it. Then again, that was late 2001,early 2002, the NSA was just setting up :p
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:32 am

R-r-r-reading anarchist texts? This is even worse than dangerous socialism!
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:36 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:I remember the anarchist cookbook.

I did not get in trouble for getting an excerpt of it. Then again, that was late 2001,early 2002, the NSA was just setting up :p


Dumb Ideologies wrote:R-r-r-reading anarchist texts? This is even worse than dangerous socialism!


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War Gears
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Ex-Nation

Postby War Gears » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:41 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
(Quotes from article.)



So he knew something that the police think it's illegal to know.


Well, fuck, better arrest every chemistry student in the country, right?


"See mom? This is what happens when I do my homework. I get arrested by secret services."
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:45 am

War Gears wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Well, fuck, better arrest every chemistry student in the country, right?


"See mom? This is what happens when I do my homework. I get arrested by secret services."

Schools indoctrinating children into terrorism? The EU must have done this.

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Dumb Ideologies
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:49 am

Ifreann wrote:
War Gears wrote:
"See mom? This is what happens when I do my homework. I get arrested by secret services."

Schools indoctrinating children into terrorism? The EU must have done this.


Hardly. Can you imagine the regulations they'd put on the shape of dynamite and the geographical origin restrictions on the Molotov cocktail? ;)
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:03 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Schools indoctrinating children into terrorism? The EU must have done this.


Hardly. Can you imagine the regulations they'd put on the shape of dynamite and the geographical origin restrictions on the Molotov cocktail? ;)

Just to be safe, you should ban the metric system.

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HMS Queen Elizabeth
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Postby HMS Queen Elizabeth » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:19 am

Hydesland wrote:Required reading for many Brexiteers who keep pushing these false narratives: https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status ... 4512975872

It's dishonest in the sense that most of these are statements trying to claim credit for things happening anyway to make the stater look important, not disinterested histories.

But the point all along was that the government was against the people on this issue. The government has always loved the EU. All three parties under the old system supported it. It was a conspiracy of the politicians against the electorate. If it were otherwise, we wouldn't have needed a referendum.
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Calladan
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Postby Calladan » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:35 am

Vaalserberg wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:R-r-r-reading anarchist texts? This is even worse than dangerous socialism!

I dont think personally that reading books is dangerous 8)


Depends if you are walking along the street at the same time. I was reading my kindle while walking to Tesco and I literally walked into a lamppost.

That's probably not what you meant, is it?
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Frank Zipper
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Postby Frank Zipper » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:35 am

Vaalserberg wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:R-r-r-reading anarchist texts? This is even worse than dangerous socialism!

I dont think personally that reading books is dangerous 8)


I've seen some horrifying paper cuts.
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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:05 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:
Hydesland wrote:Required reading for many Brexiteers who keep pushing these false narratives: https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status ... 4512975872

It's dishonest in the sense that most of these are statements trying to claim credit for things happening anyway to make the stater look important, not disinterested histories.

But the point all along was that the government was against the people on this issue. The government has always loved the EU. All three parties under the old system supported it. It was a conspiracy of the politicians against the electorate. If it were otherwise, we wouldn't have needed a referendum.


Elected politicians making decisions publicly is not a conspiracy.

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HMS Queen Elizabeth
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Postby HMS Queen Elizabeth » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:21 am

Hydesland wrote:
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:It's dishonest in the sense that most of these are statements trying to claim credit for things happening anyway to make the stater look important, not disinterested histories.

But the point all along was that the government was against the people on this issue. The government has always loved the EU. All three parties under the old system supported it. It was a conspiracy of the politicians against the electorate. If it were otherwise, we wouldn't have needed a referendum.


Elected politicians making decisions publicly is not a conspiracy.

It's not a hidden conspiracy, but it is a conspiracy.
Crown the King with Might!
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Setgavarius
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Postby Setgavarius » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:22 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:
Hydesland wrote:
Elected politicians making decisions publicly is not a conspiracy.

It's not a hidden conspiracy, but it is a conspiracy.

Then it's just group planning.
"Conspiracy" does not mean "group planning to do immoral things". It is group planning in secret.
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HMS Queen Elizabeth
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Postby HMS Queen Elizabeth » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:24 am

Conspiracy is a general term for group coordination, e.g. conspiracy to commit murder. You're still guilty even if you tell everyone that you are planning a murder with others.
Crown the King with Might!
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HMS Queen Elizabeth
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Postby HMS Queen Elizabeth » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:29 am

The twitterer ties himself up in knots talking about democracy.

Yes, it is a legitimate democratic outcome that in 1992 one of the two parties wins on a pro-EU platform and then in 1997 the electorate chooses the other party, which also ran on a pro-EU platform. Clearly the electorate has chosen to vote for the EU. Not a surprise outcome, but the legal one for sure.

It's also a legitimate democratic outcome for voters to eventually swing to an anti-EU third party in large numbers, forcing an EU referendum in which they vote to leave.

That is the system working as intended, isn't it? With a big time delay, granted, but eventually working properly. Or is just the first one democracy, and not the second?
Last edited by HMS Queen Elizabeth on Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:31 am

HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:Conspiracy is a general term for group coordination, e.g. conspiracy to commit murder. You're still guilty even if you tell everyone that you are planning a murder with others.

The difference here is that European integration is no crime.
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HMS Queen Elizabeth
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Postby HMS Queen Elizabeth » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:32 am

Geilinor wrote:
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:Conspiracy is a general term for group coordination, e.g. conspiracy to commit murder. You're still guilty even if you tell everyone that you are planning a murder with others.

The difference here is that European integration is no crime.

Some people regard it as harmful, including me.

But the harm here is that voters were denied choice.
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:32 am

Frank Zipper wrote:
Vaalserberg wrote:I dont think personally that reading books is dangerous 8)


I've seen some horrifying paper cuts.


This reminds me of Jackass! where they made some horrifying ones between the fingers, then the toes, and other weird places on the body. Shooting them was easier to bear than that :?
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Tinhampton
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:52 am

Vaalserberg wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
This reminds me of Jackass! where they made some horrifying ones between the fingers, then the toes, and other weird places on the body. Shooting them was easier to bear than that :?

Why is the Netherlands shelling Vaals?
Image

This is what it looks like because because of the shelling.

Hell if I know... I doubt they're even shelling it anyway. Why not have a look for yourself?
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Fartsniffage
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:55 am

Vaalserberg wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Hell if I know... I doubt they're even shelling it anyway. Why not have a look for yourself?

Well, looks like the EU and their dutch military war hawks have spread their propaganda very well, they even hacked the maps to remove our nations borders, >:(


This isn't a roleplay forum.

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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:56 am

Vaalserberg wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
This reminds me of Jackass! where they made some horrifying ones between the fingers, then the toes, and other weird places on the body. Shooting them was easier to bear than that :?

Why is the Netherlands shelling Vaals?
Image

This is what it looks like because because of the shelling.


NSG is an out-of-character forum and that has no relevance to UK politics anyway.
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Tinhampton
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:56 am

Vaalserberg wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Hell if I know... I doubt they're even shelling it anyway. Why not have a look for yourself?

Well, looks like the EU and their dutch military war hawks have spread their propaganda very well, they even hacked the maps to remove our nations borders, >:(

The Vaalserberg mountain still exists - it's just not in its own country.
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Reploid Productions
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Reploid Productions » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:56 am

Vaalserberg wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
This reminds me of Jackass! where they made some horrifying ones between the fingers, then the toes, and other weird places on the body. Shooting them was easier to bear than that :?

Why is the Netherlands shelling Vaals?
Image

This is what it looks like because because of the shelling.

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