UK Politics Thread VII: Wake me DUP inside [can't wake UUP]

[Fartsniffage]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44510120

So the Home Secretary might increase funding for police? Nah, he's a Tory.

We already have too many cameras and too much security as it is.

A member of the cabinet got robbed on a British street and you think we have too much policing?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

We already have too many cameras and too much security as it is.

A member of the cabinet got robbed on a British street and you think we have too much policing?

Go out on any Friday night in Edinburgh and you'll see over-policing.

[Ifreann]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44495598

The NHS is getting even more than we currently contribute to the EU in increased funding due to a Brexit dividend.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44510120

So the Home Secretary might increase funding for police? Nah, he's a Tory.

What...

What is happening?

Tories might un-cut police budgets?

The NHS might get more than £350 million a week?

[Dumb Ideologies]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44495598

The NHS is getting even more than we currently contribute to the EU in increased funding due to a Brexit dividend.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44510120

So the Home Secretary might increase funding for police? Nah, he's a Tory.

What...

What is happening?

Tories might un-cut police budgets?

The NHS might get more than £350 million a week?

C'mon Theresa, shake yer money tree for the lads!

[The Huskar Social Union]

What...

What is happening?

Tories might un-cut police budgets?

The NHS might get more than £350 million a week?

C'mon Theresa, shake yer money tree for the lads!

Stop

[Dumb Ideologies]

C'mon Theresa, shake yer money tree for the lads!

Stop

Don't be a shit lad, she wants to give you that sweet public service sugar.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Stop

Don't be a shit lad, she wants to give you that sweet public service sugar.

[Ifreann]

What...

What is happening?

Tories might un-cut police budgets?

The NHS might get more than £350 million a week?

C'mon Theresa, shake yer money tree for the lads!

So that's what she was up to in those wheat fields. Secretly cultivating a money tree.

[Souseiseki]

We already have too many cameras and too much security as it is.

A member of the cabinet got robbed on a British street and you think we have too much policing?

this is a problem has so many levels to it that i would honestly consider this argument to be fundamentally flawed

1) we do have a bloated security apparatus. the fact they can't use it effectively (in part because it's so bloated) has no bearing on its size.
2) it's impossible to fully prevent pretty crimes like that. that is, there is no amount of crazy surveillance and bobbies on the beat that will stop it outside of full on sci-fi. which means the fact it's happening can't really be used to draw reliable conclusions on how much policing there actually is. it's fundamentally the same mistake that the "if the police are so good then why didn't they catch that guy when bob when he was robbed in '93?" people make.
3) there's also no reliable way of determining who is and is not a member of british cabinet (assuming potential criminals do not have a photographic profile of them) and they're not escorted 24/7. ideally the law and the protections of the law would be equal. so the fact he is or is not a member of the british cabinet ultimately has no relevance to the fact he was robbed or how effective the police are, except outside a false assumption that members of the cabinet must be their nature by better protected from all possible crimes at all possible times which isn't true.

written after being up all night

[Souseiseki]

A member of the cabinet got robbed on a British street and you think we have too much policing?

Go out on any Friday night in Edinburgh and you'll see over-policing.

scotland and england are not the same country. they have different governments, different budgets and different police forces. you are correct in that scotland has massively increased its number of police, but what people are complaining about is that england has decreased its number of police.

[Hurdergaryp]

Tories might un-cut police budgets?

UK POLICE BUDGET 2KXVIII: LARGE, IN CHARGE & UNCUT!

[Dooom35796821595]

A member of the cabinet got robbed on a British street and you think we have too much policing?

this is a problem has so many levels to it that i would honestly consider this argument to be fundamentally flawed

1) we do have a bloated security apparatus. the fact they can't use it effectively (in part because it's so bloated) has no bearing on its size.
2) it's impossible to fully prevent pretty crimes like that. that is, there is no amount of crazy surveillance and bobbies on the beat that will stop it outside of full on sci-fi. which means the fact it's happening can't really be used to draw reliable conclusions on how much policing there actually is. it's fundamentally the same mistake that the "if the police are so good then why didn't they catch that guy when bob when he was robbed in '93?" people make.
3) there's also no reliable way of determining who is and is not a member of british cabinet (assuming potential criminals do not have a photographic profile of them) and they're not escorted 24/7. ideally the law and the protections of the law would be equal. so the fact he is or is not a member of the british cabinet ultimately has no relevance to the fact he was robbed or how effective the police are, except outside a false assumption that members of the cabinet must be their nature by better protected from all possible crimes at all possible times which isn't true.

written after being up all night

The security apparatus, for counter terrorisim is overblown, however police funding and numbers is critically low.

And robbery is not a petty crime, by any stretch of the imagination.

Surveillance drones on every street, cctv on every lamppost, and one bobby in every 100 citizens!

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Go out on any Friday night in Edinburgh and you'll see over-policing.

scotland and england are not the same country. they have different governments, different budgets and different police forces. you are correct in that scotland has massively increased its number of police, but what people are complaining about is that england has decreased its number of police.

Well I'm down in Manchester soon so I'll go out on the piss their and see if I have a different experience.
The bloated Scottish police force is killing Edinburgh's party scene though.

[The Nihilistic view]

Manchester is a top night out, almost as good as Brexit!

[Souseiseki]

Manchester is a top night out, almost as good as Brexit!

nice try

[MERIZoC]

We already have too many cameras and too much security as it is.

A member of the cabinet got robbed on a British street and you think we have too much policing?

If its only one, then yes.

[Lauchenoiria]

Go out on any Friday night in Edinburgh and you'll see over-policing.

scotland and england are not the same country. they have different governments, different budgets and different police forces. you are correct in that scotland has massively increased its number of police, but what people are complaining about is that england has decreased its number of police.

Fully agree. Scotland doesn't need any more police, I was in Edinburgh yesterday and they were everywhere. But England is completely different. There's a lot of counter-terrorism, but not so much funding going to non-terrorist crimes.

[Hrythingia]

We already have too many cameras and too much security as it is.

A member of the cabinet got robbed on a British street and you think we have too much policing?

The nature of our security services and their effectiveness are two different things. Just because they are heavily armed with access to all sorts of privacy-invading technology et cetera does not mean that they carry out their duties with any more diligence and utility.

[Trumptonium1]

A member of the cabinet got robbed on a British street and you think we have too much policing?

Go out on any Friday night in Edinburgh and you'll see over-policing.

Scotland number of FTE police officers: 17 170. For a population of 5 400 000 that is 318 police officers per 100 000 Scots.

1 January 2014 = 17258 FTE police officers, roughly same rate per 100 000.

Hampshire and Isle of Wight number of FTE police officers: 2 987 (down from 3 748 Y/E 31 March 2010). For a population of 2 100 000 that is 142 police officers per 100 000 residents of Hampshire and IOW (down from 197 police officers per 100 000 people on 1 899 900 residents.)

142 police officers per 100k residents is below India at 149. 197 police officers was closer to Sweden/Japan who were both at 195 and 198 last year nationwide.

Met Police had 32 150 FTE officers Y/E 2017 for a population of 8 800 000 - 365 police officers per 100 000 residents. This is down from 33,367 on 8 174 000 people in 2011, which was 409 police officers per 100 000 people.

GMP had 6 396 FTE officers Y/E 2017 for a population of 2 780 000 - 230 police officers per 100 000 residents. This is down from 8 148 on 2 550 000 people in 2011, which was 319 police officers per 100 000 people.

For comparison:
Haiti - 108 police per 100k
India - 149 police per 100k
Denmark - 192 police per 100k
Sweden - 195 police per 100k
Japan - 198 police per 100k
Ireland - 252 police per 100k
Poland - 258 police per 100k
United States - 284 police per 100k
Germany - 296 police per 100k
France - 340 police per 100k
Czech Republic/Netherlands - 383 police per 100k
Italy - 456 police per 100k
Spain - 533 police per 100k

So yeah ... London went down from having as many police as rural Netherlands to somewhere above rural France. GMP down from around Austria to touching Brazil. In other words, it appears it's very easy to be blinded to the problems of rUK if you live in a region that is flooded with police officers, comparatively speaking. Scotland is far above European average, as is London (though below metropolitan average - Paris appears to have around 700 police per 100k) ... but the rest of the country is somewhere between Brazil and India. No disrespect to either, but I don't think that's where England should be relaxing.

The police count also generally rose in rural areas rather than metropolitan areas. For example, the number of police officers in Surrey increased by 7.3% between 2010 and 2017 (an extra 200 officers) while the number of police officers in West Yorkshire fell by -15.8% in the same period (950 fewer) and by -21% in Merseyside (1000 fewer)

One of the problems cities like Peterborough, Nottingham, Southampton and Bristol have is that they are not metropolitan boroughs, and hence do not get their own police force or control over policing. Urban areas obviously need more police officers than rural areas, but the placement of these cities means that they are severely lacking in protection. They also are all in staunchly conservative-controlled areas which are dominated by the rural vote in the surrounding borough.

Nevertheless this isn't a political party thing as there is a lot of nonsense in policing numbers. Kent has a population 400 000 lower than Hampshire but have 400 more police officers. Kent only has one city (Canterbury - 55k residents) and only two settlements with more than 100k people. Hampshire has three cities (inc. Winchester at 45k) of which two have a population above 100k (Southampton 260k, Portsmouth 210k) and two towns above 100k (Eastleigh 130k, Basingstoke 110k) ... so how Kent manages to have more police officers with a smaller budget and fewer urban areas and not having to share a police force with Britain's biggest island .. is a mystery.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... march-2018

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Go out on any Friday night in Edinburgh and you'll see over-policing.

Scotland number of FTE police officers: 17 170. For a population of 5 400 000 that is 318 police officers per 100 000 Scots.

1 January 2014 = 17258 FTE police officers, roughly same rate per 100 000.

Hampshire and Isle of Wight number of FTE police officers: 2 987 (down from 3 748 Y/E 31 March 2010). For a population of 2 100 000 that is 142 police officers per 100 000 residents of Hampshire and IOW (down from 197 police officers per 100 000 people on 1 899 900 residents.)

142 police officers per 100k residents is below India at 149. 197 police officers was closer to Sweden/Japan who were both at 195 and 198 last year nationwide.

Met Police had 32 150 FTE officers Y/E 2017 for a population of 8 800 000 - 365 police officers per 100 000 residents. This is down from 33,367 on 8 174 000 people in 2011, which was 409 police officers per 100 000 people.

GMP had 6 396 FTE officers Y/E 2017 for a population of 2 780 000 - 230 police officers per 100 000 residents. This is down from 8 148 on 2 550 000 people in 2011, which was 319 police officers per 100 000 people.

For comparison:
Haiti - 108 police per 100k
India - 149 police per 100k
Denmark - 192 police per 100k
Sweden - 195 police per 100k
Japan - 198 police per 100k
Ireland - 252 police per 100k
Poland - 258 police per 100k
United States - 284 police per 100k
Germany - 296 police per 100k
France - 340 police per 100k
Czech Republic/Netherlands - 383 police per 100k
Italy - 456 police per 100k
Spain - 533 police per 100k

So yeah ... London went down from having as many police as rural Netherlands to somewhere above rural France. GMP down from around Austria to touching Brazil. In other words, it appears it's very easy to be blinded to the problems of rUK if you live in a region that is flooded with police officers, comparatively speaking. Scotland is far above European average, as is London (though below metropolitan average - Paris appears to have around 700 police per 100k) ... but the rest of the country is somewhere between Brazil and India. No disrespect to either, but I don't think that's where England should be relaxing.

The police count also generally rose in rural areas rather than metropolitan areas. For example, the number of police officers in Surrey increased by 7.3% between 2010 and 2017 (an extra 200 officers) while the number of police officers in West Yorkshire fell by -15.8% in the same period (950 fewer) and by -21% in Merseyside (1000 fewer)

One of the problems cities like Peterborough, Nottingham, Southampton and Bristol have is that they are not metropolitan boroughs, and hence do not get their own police force or control over policing. Urban areas obviously need more police officers than rural areas, but the placement of these cities means that they are severely lacking in protection. They also are all in staunchly conservative-controlled areas which are dominated by the rural vote in the surrounding borough.

Nevertheless this isn't a political party thing as there is a lot of nonsense in policing numbers. Kent has a population 400 000 lower than Hampshire but have 400 more police officers. Kent only has one city (Canterbury - 55k residents) and only two settlements with more than 100k people. Hampshire has three cities (inc. Winchester at 45k) of which two have a population above 100k (Southampton 260k, Portsmouth 210k) and two towns above 100k (Eastleigh 130k, Basingstoke 110k) ... so how Kent manages to have more police officers with a smaller budget and fewer urban areas and not having to share a police force with Britain's biggest island .. is a mystery.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... march-2018

The Scottish number is also a little misstated because their are a lot of very rural areas in Scotland which I imagine won't have the same levels of policing. Much of those police officers will be concentrated in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

scotland and england are not the same country. they have different governments, different budgets and different police forces. you are correct in that scotland has massively increased its number of police, but what people are complaining about is that england has decreased its number of police.

Fully agree. Scotland doesn't need any more police, I was in Edinburgh yesterday and they were everywhere. But England is completely different. There's a lot of counter-terrorism, but not so much funding going to non-terrorist crimes.

We have police in England and Scotland doing really stupid things though. Their was a member of the police whose job it was to stand at the car park at a billy joel concert deciding whether bags were too big. That isn't a police officers job, firstly the size of bags shouldn't be restricted, and secondly if it has to be for some reason it's the job of private security.

[Fartsniffage]

Fully agree. Scotland doesn't need any more police, I was in Edinburgh yesterday and they were everywhere. But England is completely different. There's a lot of counter-terrorism, but not so much funding going to non-terrorist crimes.

We have police in England and Scotland doing really stupid things though. Their was a member of the police whose job it was to stand at the car park at a billy joel concert deciding whether bags were too big. That isn't a police officers job, firstly the size of bags shouldn't be restricted, and secondly if it has to be for some reason it's the job of private security.

It really is a police officers job. Probably a really highly trained one too.

Or did you forget about the backpack bomb detonated at a Manchester gig just a year back?

[Dumb Ideologies]

Fully agree. Scotland doesn't need any more police, I was in Edinburgh yesterday and they were everywhere. But England is completely different. There's a lot of counter-terrorism, but not so much funding going to non-terrorist crimes.

We have police in England and Scotland doing really stupid things though. Their was a member of the police whose job it was to stand at the car park at a billy joel concert deciding whether bags were too big. That isn't a police officers job, firstly the size of bags shouldn't be restricted, and secondly if it has to be for some reason it's the job of private security.

I wonder if there have been recent events that explain concern with gig-goers carrying large items in with them.

[Ifreann]

We have police in England and Scotland doing really stupid things though. Their was a member of the police whose job it was to stand at the car park at a billy joel concert deciding whether bags were too big. That isn't a police officers job, firstly the size of bags shouldn't be restricted, and secondly if it has to be for some reason it's the job of private security.

I wonder if there have been recent events that explain concern with gig-goers carrying large items in with them.

A veritable epidemic of people sneaking other people into concerts in their bags.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I wonder if there have been recent events that explain concern with gig-goers carrying large items in with them.

A veritable epidemic of people sneaking other people into concerts in their bags.

Sneak in a entirely different concert from a nearby smaller venue.