UK Politics Thread VII: Wake me DUP inside [can't wake UUP]

[Imperializt Russia]

He seems pretty based imo. After all, he's going for 21st century socialism and brexiting to make it happen in Britain.
Though that might be called bumbling idiocy by those who call capitalism efficient.

How is Britain going to pay for all of these "socialist" policies?

Well, they're all solidly social-democratic, not socialist. But also with... money, from tax revenues.
Y'know.

Where government money usually comes from.

How is Britain going to pay for all of these "socialist" policies?

I dunno. They might abolish trident or something? Ask Jeremy.

err, no, they won't.

[Vassenor]

How is Britain going to pay for all of these "socialist" policies?

Well, they're all solidly social-democratic, not socialist. But also with... money, from tax revenues.
Y'know.

Where government money usually comes from.

I dunno. They might abolish trident or something? Ask Jeremy.

err, no, they won't.

But Muh Magic Money Tree

[Eastfield Lodge]

Really? All those stories from the subcontinent about women getting acid attacked by rejected guys not sound familiar?

Which are stories from the subcontinent, in countries that are majority - as we would consider them in the UK - "BME" persons.

Point is, it would be quite easy to see police targeting BME persons on this basis.

[Questers]

He seems pretty based imo. After all, he's going for 21st century socialism and brexiting to make it happen in Britain.
Though that might be called bumbling idiocy by those who call capitalism efficient.

How is Britain going to pay for all of these "socialist" policies?

The real question which nobody bothered to ask during the election is actually how Britain is going to pay for austerity.

The Conservative austerity policies are basically laying the path for Britain to become a debtor country. Large-scale tax cuts, hardly offset by meagre public sector cuts, have skyrocketed our national debt (which is nearly double what it was before Labour lost the election) and none of the wealth has trickled down. Investment is down, productivity is down and wages are down. The only thing that has gone up is the divident payout ratio which is the opposite of what they told us would happen. Our government's fiscal policy is to borrow tons of money and use it to finance corporate income at the expense of the natioanl economy.

Taking on debt isn't necessarily bad - almost all companies in the private sector take on debt in order to expand. Taking on debt in order to then hand it to corporate interests and watch as it flows in one great movement out of the country is not a good idea. It's also totally unaffordable and will end up bankrupting us. At the very least Labour's policy makes more sense because it's borrowing to invest rather than borrowing to spend.

[Questers]

Well, they're all solidly social-democratic, not socialist. But also with... money, from tax revenues.
Y'know.

Where government money usually comes from.
err, no, they won't.

But Muh Magic Money Tree

What was really sad about the election is that Britain does have a magic money tree. It has the oldest and quite probably the best magic money tree in the world. It is located in Threadneedle Street, London, and British governments have often used it to be just that: a magic money tree.

[Imperializt Russia]

Which are stories from the subcontinent, in countries that are majority - as we would consider them in the UK - "BME" persons.

Point is, it would be quite easy to see police targeting BME persons on this basis.

This simply doesn't follow, because what happens on the subcontinent is not relevant to what happens in the UK.

[Frank Zipper]

Can't see Hammond staying in post much longer. We should have a sweepstake.

[Vassenor]

Can't see Hammond staying in post much longer. We should have a sweepstake.

I've seen people tinfoiling that this has all been about driving him out because he's too pro-EU.

[Salandriagado]

He seems pretty based imo. After all, he's going for 21st century socialism and brexiting to make it happen in Britain.
Though that might be called bumbling idiocy by those who call capitalism efficient.

How is Britain going to pay for all of these "socialist" policies?

See the fully-costed manifesto.

[Geilinor]

How is Britain going to pay for all of these "socialist" policies?

See the fully-costed manifesto.

Which may end up being uncosted depending on how much Brexit hits the budget.

[Dooom35796821595]

See the fully-costed manifesto.

Which may end up being uncosted depending on how much Brexit hits the budget.

Comrade Corbin is a bigger threat to the economy then Brexit, I see he's already started purging the Labour Party. Who wants to bet he builds gulags for his political enemies if he becomes PM?

[Salandriagado]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40623343

Public sector workers receive a 10% "premium" over the private sector, said Philip Hammond, who said colleagues should not be leaking cabinet talks.

The chancellor refused to comment on reports he said at a cabinet meeting that public servants were "overpaid".

Well, I guess it depends on who he is comparing it to. If you compare what nurses earn (between £22k and £25k a year) and compare that to someone with a paper round, then yes, they probably are ludicrously over paid and should be thankful for it.

But if you compare what nurses earn to what MPs earn (I think it was £77k a year at the last raise?) I think his argument looks a little thin.

And then if you compare it to the private sector, where salaries can run into the £100k, £200k band for some senior staff (where as senior nurses get, I believe, £69k a year) then his argument collapses even further.

(I am paid well above £40k and while I do have a skilled job, I would say that the police, fire brigade and DEFINITELY the nursing profession is a far harder job than mine and really they should be paid more. But then I am not an MP and who knows how their exalted minds work?)

I am not one to rush to judgement about how much shit MPs are apt to talk, but in this case, I think the moment you hear it, you know he is full of crap.

Alternatively, we could make a reasonable comparison of similar qualification levels. Say, you could compare average starting graduate salaries (£30,000, The Graduate Market in 2016, High Fliers) to starting teacher salaries (actually better qualified, but never mind). The latter are nice and easy: they're here (E&W excluding London), here (London), here (Scotland), and here (NI). Now, the relevant figures of each are in the top-left of each: £21,804 to £27,819, depending on where you are. Decidedly not £33,000. In fact, London and Scotland are the only areas where that mark is reached anywhere on the main pay scale.

[Hydesland]

Fortunately BBC has already looked into this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40480766

Reality Check verdict: It is a difficult comparison to make, but IFS calculations suggest that Lord Lamont is probably right. However, in recent years private sector pay has been growing faster than public sector pay and the gap between public and private pay is expected to continue to narrow in the coming years if current government policies are implemented.

[Salandriagado]

Fortunately BBC has already looked into this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40480766

Reality Check verdict: It is a difficult comparison to make, but IFS calculations suggest that Lord Lamont is probably right. However, in recent years private sector pay has been growing faster than public sector pay and the gap between public and private pay is expected to continue to narrow in the coming years if current government policies are implemented.

Yeah, I forgot doctors counted. That makes sense.

[Imperializt Russia]

Which may end up being uncosted depending on how much Brexit hits the budget.

Comrade Corbin is a bigger threat to the economy then Brexit, I see he's already started purging the Labour Party. Who wants to bet he builds gulags for his political enemies if he becomes PM?

Who has allegedly been purged (they've certainly not been purged from the Party, he doesn't have that power) and how does this relate to his alleged threat to the economy, which you have left unquantified as to why?

[Dooom35796821595]

Comrade Corbyn is a bigger threat to the economy then Brexit, I see he's already started purging the Labour Party. Who wants to bet he builds gulags for his political enemies if he becomes PM?

Who has allegedly been purged (they've certainly not been purged from the Party, he doesn't have that power) and how does this relate to his alleged threat to the economy, which you have left unquantified as to why?

Corbyn has been reported as threatening to deselect MPs who go against the party line, something he did his entire career as a back bencher. And because he would just keep spending money the government dosen't have, since raising taxes dosen't guarantee proportional increases in revenue.

[Big Brain City]

How is Britain going to pay for all of these "socialist" policies?

The real question which nobody bothered to ask during the election is actually how Britain is going to pay for austerity.

The Conservative austerity policies are basically laying the path for Britain to become a debtor country. Large-scale tax cuts, hardly offset by meagre public sector cuts, have skyrocketed our national debt (which is nearly double what it was before Labour lost the election) and none of the wealth has trickled down. Investment is down, productivity is down and wages are down. The only thing that has gone up is the divident payout ratio which is the opposite of what they told us would happen. Our government's fiscal policy is to borrow tons of money and use it to finance corporate income at the expense of the natioanl economy.

Taking on debt isn't necessarily bad - almost all companies in the private sector take on debt in order to expand. Taking on debt in order to then hand it to corporate interests and watch as it flows in one great movement out of the country is not a good idea. It's also totally unaffordable and will end up bankrupting us. At the very least Labour's policy makes more sense because it's borrowing to invest rather than borrowing to spend.

wtf is this insane, retarded bullshit
do they intend to run the country on perpetually increasing loans until the gov can only pay itself and interest on the debts?

[Imperializt Russia]

Who has allegedly been purged (they've certainly not been purged from the Party, he doesn't have that power) and how does this relate to his alleged threat to the economy, which you have left unquantified as to why?

Corbin has been reported as threatening to deselect MPs who go against the party line, something he did his entire career as a back bencher. And because he would just keep spending money the government dosen't have, since raising taxes dosen't guarantee proportional increases in revenue.

Pro-Corbyn Labour activists and councillors have made comments to the wording of "get on board" (in the one specific case of Luciana Berger, MP for Liverpool Wavertree), and this has been interpreted by the right-wing press as CORBYN PLOTS MASS DESELECTION TO CRUSH THE SABOTEURS

Are you intentionally misspelling "Corbyn", by the way?

[Kvatchdom]

Who has allegedly been purged (they've certainly not been purged from the Party, he doesn't have that power) and how does this relate to his alleged threat to the economy, which you have left unquantified as to why?

Corbin has been reported as threatening to deselect MPs who go against the party line, something he did his entire career as a back bencher. And because he would just keep spending money the government dosen't have, since raising taxes dosen't guarantee proportional increases in revenue.

Neither does whatever the fuck the conservatives are doing. Also, Labour's platform was fully costed weren't it? Unlike a certain other platform

[Vassenor]

Corbin has been reported as threatening to deselect MPs who go against the party line, something he did his entire career as a back bencher. And because he would just keep spending money the government dosen't have, since raising taxes dosen't guarantee proportional increases in revenue.

Neither does whatever the fuck the conservatives are doing. Also, Labour's platform was fully costed weren't it? Unlike a certain other platform

#magicmoneytree

[The Grim Reaper]

Neither does whatever the fuck the conservatives are doing. Also, Labour's platform was fully costed weren't it? Unlike a certain other platform

#magicmoneytree

Why bother winning seats - hell, even holding seats - if you can just import them from Northern Ireland? And so cheap, too!

[Kvatchdom]

If you give your enemies your seats you win.

[Dooom35796821595]

Corbin has been reported as threatening to deselect MPs who go against the party line, something he did his entire career as a back bencher. And because he would just keep spending money the government dosen't have, since raising taxes dosen't guarantee proportional increases in revenue.

Pro-Corbyn Labour activists and councillors have made comments to the wording of "get on board" (in the one specific case of Luciana Berger, MP for Liverpool Wavertree), and this has been interpreted by the right-wing press as CORBYN PLOTS MASS DESELECTION TO CRUSH THE SABOTEURS

Are you intentionally misspelling "Corbyn", by the way?

We'll see, won't we. And that is an odd way to spell that.

Corbin has been reported as threatening to deselect MPs who go against the party line, something he did his entire career as a back bencher. And because he would just keep spending money the government dosen't have, since raising taxes dosen't guarantee proportional increases in revenue.

Neither does whatever the fuck the conservatives are doing. Also, Labour's platform was fully costed weren't it? Unlike a certain other platform

I never said I have anymore faith in the conservatives. And I was pointing out that just because you raise tax, dosen't mean you get a corresponding increase in revenue, since most companies/people try to minimise the amount of tax they pay. Within the law normally.

[Imperializt Russia]

Pro-Corbyn Labour activists and councillors have made comments to the wording of "get on board" (in the one specific case of Luciana Berger, MP for Liverpool Wavertree), and this has been interpreted by the right-wing press as CORBYN PLOTS MASS DESELECTION TO CRUSH THE SABOTEURS

Are you intentionally misspelling "Corbyn", by the way?

We'll see, won't we. And that is an odd way to spell that.

I ask because the Sun's June 8th election special front page was "Don't chuck Britain in the Cor-Bin" with an image of Corbs peering out of a bin.
It's also not an odd spelling. As Martyn is a surname of Irish origin (Galway tribe) which has become a variant of the English given name Martin, it's possible that it also shows Irish heritage. "Behind The Name" suggests that Martyn as a given name is of Welsh and Ukrainian origin.

In any case, no, there is no mass central plan to deselect MPs. There are serious proposals to make it easier to trigger deselection proceedings, which would apply to all MPs, which is an effort to greater recognise the obvious influence and appeal of Labour Party membership.

The official line on such measures is to increase democracy within the party's workings, including the line "no MP should consider their safe seat a job for life".
I certainly wouldn't think anyone would disagree with that suggestion.

[Bakery Hill]

Who has allegedly been purged (they've certainly not been purged from the Party, he doesn't have that power) and how does this relate to his alleged threat to the economy, which you have left unquantified as to why?

Corbyn has been reported as threatening to deselect MPs who go against the party line, something he did his entire career as a back bencher. And because he would just keep spending money the government dosen't have, since raising taxes dosen't guarantee proportional increases in revenue.

I fucking hope he does. "Fair play" isn't the point. This isn't cricket.