Middle East Conflict Megathread (Syria, Iraq, Yemen, etc)

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Do you deny the Holocaust or something? Seem to be taking it pretty personally.

No, no, I'm not some nutcase.

It's just irritating when people cry anti-Semitism at any opposition to events, people, governments closely related to the Jews. Considering I'm strongly opposed to Israel, I've had problem once or twice.

So, your best example of a Baathist leader was a nutcase?

[Collatis]

Antisemitism is an essential part of Holocaust denial. Claiming that I'm "reaching" doesn't change that.

Not necessarily, you don't need to be an anti-Semite to deny it.

One generally needs to be antisemitic to believe in an antisemitic conspiracy theory. That's like saying one doesn't have to be racist to believe that blacks are inferior.

You don't need to be antifa to oppose fascism, it's literally that simple.

You have it completely mixed up. You don't need to be part of Antifa to oppose fascism, much like you don't need to deny the Holocaust to be an antisemite. However, you do need to oppose fascism to be part of Antifa, like how you need to be antisemitic to be a Holocaust denier.

This really isn't complicated. Is it really surprising that the leader of a country 3/4^ths of the population is antisemitic would also be antisemitic?

[Ile des Canaries de Cerda]

So, your best example of a Baathist leader was a nutcase?

As I said, it's something I don't care about. Nasser could have thought the world was flat and that the earth revolved around the moon, I'd still view him as a hero.

1. One generally needs to be antisemitic to believe in an antisemitic conspiracy theory. That's like saying one doesn't have to be racist to believe that blacks are inferior.

2. You have it completely mixed up. You don't need to be part of Antifa to oppose fascism, much like you don't need to deny the Holocaust to be an antisemite. However, you do need to oppose fascism to be part of Antifa, like how you need to be antisemitic to be a Holocaust denier.

3. This really isn't complicated. Is it really surprising that the leader of a country 3/4^ths of the population is antisemitic would also be antisemitic?

1. That's wrong, the denial of the Holocaust isn't in itself anti-Semitic. Nowhere does it particularly specify that Jews are inferior or subhuman, merely that a historical event did not happen. Also, again, there are Jews that aren't anti-Semites and believe in holocaust denial.

2. No you don't, you're literally making that requirement up.

3. I'd like to see actual sources on Nasser's anti-Semitism, rather than baseless assumptions made on more baseless assumptions (unless you have a source for that 3/4ths figure?).

[Pope Joan]

Lebanon says Saudi Arabia has declared war on it.

Saudi Arabia says no, it is the other way around.

Given their respective records for truthfulness and general morality, I trust Lebanon's version.

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle- ... on-Lebanon

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Lebanon says Saudi Arabia has declared war on it.

Saudi Arabia says no, it is the other way around.

Given their respective records for truthfulness and general morality, I trust Lebanon's version.

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle- ... on-Lebanon

I trust neither.

There is no war.

[Alsheb]

Lebanon says Saudi Arabia has declared war on it.

Saudi Arabia says no, it is the other way around.

Given their respective records for truthfulness and general morality, I trust Lebanon's version.

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle- ... on-Lebanon

Not to mention the fact that Lebanon literally has done nothing against Saudi Arabia, whereas the Saudis have abducted the Lebanese prime minister and head of government. That is in fact an act of war.

[Pilarcraft]

Lebanon says Saudi Arabia has declared war on it.

Saudi Arabia says no, it is the other way around.

Given their respective records for truthfulness and general morality, I trust Lebanon's version.

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle- ... on-Lebanon

I trust neither.

There is no war.

not yet.
But it's highly likely it's gonna happen soon. after all, if there's no war in middle east, how are they gonna exploit everyone's resources and sell all their weapons?
In all seriousness though, If it's a question of whom to trust, as much as I hate Hezbollah, I'd still trust them over Saudis.

[Albrenia]

Ugh. Holocaust Denial.

You have to be pretty blinded by something to believe that the Holocaust didn't happen.

On topic, I think it'll be pretty clear if there's war. Until then it's just bluster. I hope it remains that.

[Aillyria]

Ugh. Holocaust Denial.

You have to be pretty blinded by something to believe that the Holocaust didn't happen.

On topic, I think it'll be pretty clear if there's war. Until then it's just bluster. I hope it remains that.

Not exactly.....it could be argued that there aren't reliable source for supposrd Jrwish deaths during WW2 or that the death count was exaggerated.



*I am not a holocaust denier, btw. Just playing devil's advocate.*

[Shofercia]

Go tell Assad that

Assad is winning. The KSA isn't making much progress against Yemen.

That's debatable. Turkey holds a strategic location, and can defend it. I'm not talking about Erdogan's Adventures in Syria; I am talking about Turkey regulating key trade routes, which give Turkey quite a bit of leverage. Egypt stands at the crossroads of the Middle East and Africa, effectively extending its influence both ways.

Iran has been gaining strength recently, but Iran is forced to act with extreme caution. Additionally, neither Egypt nor Turkey have a regional enemy; Iran does. Iran's rise has been linked to the ill fated Iraq War, and the creation of vacuum in Iraq and Syria. Before that - Iran was able to seize Lebanon, again, because of mistakes made by the US. For someone claiming that they're "fighting Iran and Russia" the US is certainly scoring a bunch of own goals.

Now compare that to Turkey - which just took half of Cyprus, because Turkey could do so. Turkey continues to rule part of Cyprus as a military dictatorship, and nary a word about condemning that, aside from those oh so strongly worded letters. Egypt was the only Middle Eastern country to lose land in war and gain it back through peace, at least only one to do so in recent History.

What makes Iran more powerful than either one of those two countries? Iran is more powerful in Syria and Iraq than Turkey/Egypt - no doubt. But in terms of overall power projection, that's debatable.

Turkey is powerful in pushing around a country like a bankrupt country like Greece nearly 50 years ago in a war that lasted a week. That much it has proven. It's also proven it is great at milking the American teat. In terms of armour, the two sides are about evenly matched with 3,000 tanks each and Iran wins out in terms of attack helicopters, Iran wins out by several dozen. Not to mention the fact that Turkey just dealt with an attempted coup and subsequent purge. Historically, purges weaken an army considerably (looking at your antebellum Soviet Union).

To say Egypt has force projection comparable to Iran is also untrue. Iran has proven it has the ability to strike targets as far as Syria and is widely known across the Middle East for the effectiveness of the Quds Force. Egypt recently dealt with a turbulent revolution and is still probably not stable enough to deal with a major war. Not to mention their horrible track history with wars, especially Israel. Egypt has an army of 300,000, 2/3 of whom are conscripts mainly used for police duties. Sure, Egypt has the Suez Canal. But are they realistically going to close it off? And it's not like Iran relies on it heavily for shipping anyhow. Most of their goods go to Asia. If anything, Egypt has to worry about Hormuz.

Greece wasn't bankrupt 50 years ago and I'm not talking about the military. Yes, Iran has a better military than either Turkey or Egypt; I'm talking about Turkey and Egypt arguably being more powerful than Iran. Arguably being the key word. For instance - the US can be the number one nuclear power; arguably, that can also be Russia. It doesn't mean that Russia/US are numero uno, but rather, that each country can make an argument for being numero uno, considering that they both have the doomsday device or its equivalent. I'm not saying that Egypt/Turkey are more powerful than Iran for sure; I'm saying that could be the case.

Realistically speaking, no one has to worry about Iran closing the Straits of Hormuz, since that will lead to a confrontation with the US, and the Straits will be open rather quickly. Keep in mind that when NATO failed to achieve their objective on the ground in Yugoslavia, NATO bombed Belgrade until the Serbs surrendered to save their capital from being annihilated. If Iran closes the Straits, NATO will drop "smart" bombs on Tehran until the Straits are opened. So yes, militarily speaking, you're right, Iran is number one in the Middle East. But when Power Projection is taken into account, Turkey and Egypt can also make that claim.

No it doesn't and never will like Kurdistan

Oh, I can guarantee it will, mate. The KSA won't survive our life times.

You'd be surprised.

I dunno....I dont love to make far off predictions of the future and it's not as if Saudi Arabia seems particularly unstable right now. It's impossible to say what could happen with 60, 70 years.

Oh, it's definitely not going to survive. But I also don't think basically any Middle Eastern regime is going to survive our lifetimes.

I'll take that bet.

were/are too authoritarian, although some degree of strong central leadership is welcomed.

Further, how were they too authoritarian for Baathism? They established a one-party state. As Baathism calls for in Aflaq's favouring of a Leninist model.

Aflac's?

Israel has also had a lot to do as they are preparing for a war with Hezbollah.

There's already a war between Israel and Hezbollah. It's been there since 2006.

[Ile des Canaries de Cerda]

Ugh. Holocaust Denial.

You have to be pretty blinded by something to believe that the Holocaust didn't happen.

On topic, I think it'll be pretty clear if there's war. Until then it's just bluster. I hope it remains that.

Usually, although I have friends who doubt it because everyone uses it as a way to give the Jews a get-out-of-jail free card. I agree, but I don't go as far as doubting such a traumatic event.

[Shofercia]

Lebanon says Saudi Arabia has declared war on it.

Saudi Arabia says no, it is the other way around.

Given their respective records for truthfulness and general morality, I trust Lebanon's version.

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle- ... on-Lebanon

Not to mention the fact that Lebanon literally has done nothing against Saudi Arabia, whereas the Saudis have abducted the Lebanese prime minister and head of government. That is in fact an act of war.

He'll be-heading straight to the UNHRC

Ugh. Holocaust Denial.

You have to be pretty blinded by something to believe that the Holocaust didn't happen.

On topic, I think it'll be pretty clear if there's war. Until then it's just bluster. I hope it remains that.

Not exactly.....it could be argued that there aren't reliable source for supposrd Jrwish deaths during WW2 or that the death count was exaggerated.

*I am not a holocaust denier, btw. Just playing devil's advocate.*

Claiming "4 million, not 6 million" while factually incorrect, isn't denying the Holocaust, and you seem to be a denier of proper spelling. And there are plenty of reliable sources. Being a Holocaust Denier isn't even equivalent to a 9/11 truther, it's equivalent to someone claiming "9/11 Didn't Happen and the Moon Landing was faked!"

[Shofercia]

Ugh. Holocaust Denial.

You have to be pretty blinded by something to believe that the Holocaust didn't happen.

On topic, I think it'll be pretty clear if there's war. Until then it's just bluster. I hope it remains that.

Usually, although I have friends who doubt it because everyone uses it as a way to give the Jews a get-out-of-jail free card. I agree, but I don't go as far as doubting such a traumatic event.

I agree, and there's a difference between denying actual History and not being a fan of Zionism. The former makes a person look... bad; the latter is just an opinion.

[Collatis]

1. That's wrong, the denial of the Holocaust isn't in itself anti-Semitic. Nowhere does it particularly specify that Jews are inferior or subhuman, merely that a historical event did not happen. Also, again, there are Jews that aren't anti-Semites and believe in holocaust denial.

Saying I'm wrong and that there are Holocaust denying-Jews that aren't anti-Semites doesn't make either remotely true.

2. No you don't, you're literally making that requirement up.

I'm not the one making things up to defend my Holocaust denying friends and idols.

3. I'd like to see actual sources on Nasser's anti-Semitism, rather than baseless assumptions made on more baseless assumptions (unless you have a source for that 3/4ths figure?).

President Nasser of Egypt in a notorious interview with the editor of the neo-Nazi Deutsche Soldaten und National Zeitung, published on 1 May 1964, insisted that 'No one, not even the simplest man in our country, takes seriously the lie about six million Jews who were murdered'.

And this is from 2014. The number was almost certainly higher in Nasser's time.

[Collatis]

Usually, although I have friends who doubt it because everyone uses it as a way to give the Jews a get-out-of-jail free card. I agree, but I don't go as far as doubting such a traumatic event.

I agree, and there's a difference between denying actual History and not being a fan of Zionism. The former makes a person look... bad; the latter is just an opinion.

The problem is when one uses the latter as a cover and an excuse for the former.

[The of Japan]

Go tell Assad that

Assad is winning. The KSA isn't making much progress against Yemen.

Turkey is powerful in pushing around a country like a bankrupt country like Greece nearly 50 years ago in a war that lasted a week. That much it has proven. It's also proven it is great at milking the American teat. In terms of armour, the two sides are about evenly matched with 3,000 tanks each and Iran wins out in terms of attack helicopters, Iran wins out by several dozen. Not to mention the fact that Turkey just dealt with an attempted coup and subsequent purge. Historically, purges weaken an army considerably (looking at your antebellum Soviet Union).

To say Egypt has force projection comparable to Iran is also untrue. Iran has proven it has the ability to strike targets as far as Syria and is widely known across the Middle East for the effectiveness of the Quds Force. Egypt recently dealt with a turbulent revolution and is still probably not stable enough to deal with a major war. Not to mention their horrible track history with wars, especially Israel. Egypt has an army of 300,000, 2/3 of whom are conscripts mainly used for police duties. Sure, Egypt has the Suez Canal. But are they realistically going to close it off? And it's not like Iran relies on it heavily for shipping anyhow. Most of their goods go to Asia. If anything, Egypt has to worry about Hormuz.

Greece wasn't bankrupt 50 years ago and I'm not talking about the military. Yes, Iran has a better military than either Turkey or Egypt; I'm talking about Turkey and Egypt arguably being more powerful than Iran. Arguably being the key word. For instance - the US can be the number one nuclear power; arguably, that can also be Russia. It doesn't mean that Russia/US are numero uno, but rather, that each country can make an argument for being numero uno, considering that they both have the doomsday device or its equivalent. I'm not saying that Egypt/Turkey are more powerful than Iran for sure; I'm saying that could be the case.

Realistically speaking, no one has to worry about Iran closing the Straits of Hormuz, since that will lead to a confrontation with the US, and the Straits will be open rather quickly. Keep in mind that when NATO failed to achieve their objective on the ground in Yugoslavia, NATO bombed Belgrade until the Serbs surrendered to save their capital from being annihilated. If Iran closes the Straits, NATO will drop "smart" bombs on Tehran until the Straits are opened. So yes, militarily speaking, you're right, Iran is number one in the Middle East. But when Power Projection is taken into account, Turkey and Egypt can also make that claim.

Oh, I can guarantee it will, mate. The KSA won't survive our life times.

You'd be surprised.

And force open the straits and devastate the Iranian navy in the process

Oh, it's definitely not going to survive. But I also don't think basically any Middle Eastern regime is going to survive our lifetimes.

I'll take that bet.

Further, how were they too authoritarian for Baathism? They established a one-party state. As Baathism calls for in Aflaq's favouring of a Leninist model.

Aflac's?

Israel has also had a lot to do as they are preparing for a war with Hezbollah.

There's already a war between Israel and Hezbollah. It's been there since 2006.

[Pilarcraft]

Earthquakes all over Middle East. Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Armenia, Qatar and Bahrain.
Up to 7.2 in Kermanshah (iran).
Anyone from here? I experienced it in Tehran, a very mild one that passed in a few seconds and was no threat (just the lights shaking for a few minutes)

[The Eternal Aulus]

Earthquakes all over Middle East. Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Armenia, Qatar and Bahrain.
Up to 7.2 in Kermanshah (iran).
Anyone from here? I experienced it in Tehran, a very mild one that passed in a few seconds and was no threat (just the lights shaking for a few minutes)

Not in Israel? It's those pesky Israelis I tell you.

[Pilarcraft]

Earthquakes all over Middle East. Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Armenia, Qatar and Bahrain.
Up to 7.2 in Kermanshah (iran).
Anyone from here? I experienced it in Tehran, a very mild one that passed in a few seconds and was no threat (just the lights shaking for a few minutes)

Not in Israel? It's those pesky Israelis I tell you.

I'm not sure. last I heard, it was the regions bordering or close to Iraq. maybe it was in israel too, I'm not sure.

[Collatis]

Former Lebanese prime minister insists from Saudi Arabia that he is ‘free’ and will return ‘very soon’

[United Muscovite Nations]

Powerful earthquake strikes near Iraqi city of Halabja

[The Eternal Aulus]

Powerful earthquake strikes near Iraqi city of Halabja

(Image)

That moment you realize memes keep Saddam's spirit alive

[Shofercia]

Earthquakes all over Middle East. Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Armenia, Qatar and Bahrain.
Up to 7.2 in Kermanshah (iran).
Anyone from here? I experienced it in Tehran, a very mild one that passed in a few seconds and was no threat (just the lights shaking for a few minutes)

Armenia migrated to the Middle East? That explains the tectonic shifts.

[Pilarcraft]

there's a possibility of another earthquake between 12-3 (it means 8:30-11:30 GMT) in Tehran.
god dammit I'm so stressed.

[Herador]

Powerful earthquake strikes near Iraqi city of Halabja

(Image)

That moment you realize memes keep Saddam's spirit alive

Saddam is a tulpa