Middle East Conflict Megathread (Syria, Iraq, Yemen, etc)

[Pilarcraft]

Do Iranians miss the times when the Shah was leader? Especially now when there`s high disdain for the Islamic government in Iran. And what do you Muslims think of Ayatollah Khomeini?

No. God no. They're all horrible but out of the three recent Iranian leaders, it is:
1. Khomeini
2. Khamenei
3. Pahlavi

The Shah was a brutal puppet dictator who attempted to silence Islam in order to please the West and in the process, attacked Iranian culture, ordered his secret police to kill thousands of Iranians, established a one-party state, and whose erratic behavior towards the end of his reign included firing all of the palace staff virtually without warning.

As for what Muslims think of Khomeini, I'm no longer Muslim so my opinion probably doesn't matter much about that particular question.

You'd be surprised, but The Shah (and, moreso, his dad, Reza Shah) have regained almost all of the popularity they'd lost back in 1979. The radical islamist minority (... surprisingly, also the ruling faction) aside, nobody really hates either Shah or his dad. Khomeini (especially) and Khamenei are hated more than Shah ever was. Then again, most of the reason the hatred is gone is that Post-revolutionary Iran is so bad that even the worst of Shah's crimes pale in front of it.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

No. God no. They're all horrible but out of the three recent Iranian leaders, it is:
1. Khomeini
2. Khamenei
3. Pahlavi

The Shah was a brutal puppet dictator who attempted to silence Islam in order to please the West and in the process, attacked Iranian culture, ordered his secret police to kill thousands of Iranians, established a one-party state, and whose erratic behavior towards the end of his reign included firing all of the palace staff virtually without warning.

As for what Muslims think of Khomeini, I'm no longer Muslim so my opinion probably doesn't matter much about that particular question.

You'd be surprised, but The Shah (and, moreso, his dad, Reza Shah) have regained almost all of the popularity they'd lost back in 1979. The radical islamist minority (... surprisingly, also the ruling faction) aside, nobody really hates either Shah or his dad. Khomeini (especially) and Khamenei are hated more than Shah ever was. Then again, most of the reason the hatred is gone is that Post-revolutionary Iran is so bad that even the worst of Shah's crimes pale in front of it.

You overestimate. Virtually all of my family still in Iran despises the Shah. I'm sure many of the thousands of families who lost family members to his SAVAK feel the same way. The Shahs were barely popular in Iran when they were in power. What with their storming mosques to kill those inside and shooting into crowds of protestors.

[Socialist Czechia]

Who knows, Iranian Civil War may happen or another revolution. Islamic government may anger people to breaking point just the same as Shah did.

Imagine Ayatollah dragged through the streets and tortured to death by rabble: this can happen to every political leader in this area. No religious title can save you from angry mob you royally pissed off

Not saying Pahlavis will return in some kind of Glorious Revolution or Pahlavi Restoration: not even rightful King of Afghanistan returned to throne, after defeat of Taliban. But it would be satisfaction for them, for sure.

[Pilarcraft]

Who knows, Iranian Civil War may happen or another revolution. Islamic government may anger people to breaking point just the same as Shah did.

Imagine Ayatollah dragged through the streets and tortured to death by rabble: this can happen to every political leader in this area. No religious title can save you from angry mob you royally pissed off

Not saying Pahlavis will return in some kind of Glorious Revolution or Pahlavi Restoration: not even rightful King of Afghanistan returned to throne, after defeat of Taliban. But it would be satisfaction for them, for sure.

Oh the Pahlavis are not likely to return. The next-in-line of the house has repeatedly said he has no interest on the throne (if anything, he's generally the one saying "forget the monarchy let's just put a republic if everyone wants it!") but I must admit as an Iranian the idea of the Ayatollahs getting the French Treatment is appealing.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Who knows, Iranian Civil War may happen or another revolution. Islamic government may anger people to breaking point just the same as Shah did.

Imagine Ayatollah dragged through the streets and tortured to death by rabble: this can happen to every political leader in this area. No religious title can save you from angry mob you royally pissed off

Not saying Pahlavis will return in some kind of Glorious Revolution or Pahlavi Restoration: not even rightful King of Afghanistan returned to throne, after defeat of Taliban. But it would be satisfaction for them, for sure.

Oh the Pahlavis are not likely to return. The next-in-line of the house has repeatedly said he has no interest on the throne (if anything, he's generally the one saying "forget the monarchy let's just put a republic if everyone wants it!") but I must admit as an Iranian the idea of the Ayatollahs getting the French Treatment is appealing.

The idea of Khamenei getting his dues is pretty nice. Just a shame that Mohammad Reza Pahlavi didn't get his just punishment, too. As for the Crown Prince, I hold nothing against him. The son is not to blame for the sins of his father. Hell, he even offered to fight for Iran in the war against Iraq. I admire that quite a bit that he was willing to set aside political differences to fight for his nation.

What kind of government would you like to see in Iran, Pilar?

[Socialist Czechia]

To be honest, I'd expect a lot more of monarchies to survive in muslim world, as muslims are a lot more conservative and reactionary and some areas are still very much tribal (Afghanistan, Libya), so elective monarchy made by chieftains/elders would make sense here.

But I doubt that monarchy will ever return to Egypt or Turkey. And Iraqis simply slaughtered royal family, without bothering with banishment.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

muslims are a lot more conservative and reactionary

What is up with this? We aren't reactionary.
It'd be nice if you stopped painting Muslims with 1 brush.

[Torrocca]

muslims are a lot more conservative and reactionary

I'll take, "what is Rojava," for $500, Alex.

[Pilarcraft]

Oh the Pahlavis are not likely to return. The next-in-line of the house has repeatedly said he has no interest on the throne (if anything, he's generally the one saying "forget the monarchy let's just put a republic if everyone wants it!") but I must admit as an Iranian the idea of the Ayatollahs getting the French Treatment is appealing.

The idea of Khamenei getting his dues is pretty nice. Just a shame that Mohammad Reza Pahlavi didn't get his just punishment, too. As for the Crown Prince, I hold nothing against him. The son is not to blame for the sins of his father. Hell, he even offered to fight for Iran in the war against Iraq. I admire that quite a bit that he was willing to set aside political differences to fight for his nation.

What kind of government would you like to see in Iran, Pilar?

Honestly, Reza Pahlavi is one of the, hands down, nicest people in the opposition to the government (and, despite his lack of academic education in political matters, surprisingly one of the most spoken), but I'm down with any form of liberal democratic government, as long as the constitution is stable enough. Hell, even the Islamic Republic might have been reformable (or, rather, salvageable) had Wilayat-i-Faqih not been one of its primary tenants -mind you, it'd take a lot of work to secularize that shitshow, but it'd still be possible. To be honest, though, I'm kinda glad they didn't catch The Shah. Dude was terminally ill at that point (seriously, had quite a few cancers, and was physically ill), he deserved dying at peace...

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

The idea of Khamenei getting his dues is pretty nice. Just a shame that Mohammad Reza Pahlavi didn't get his just punishment, too. As for the Crown Prince, I hold nothing against him. The son is not to blame for the sins of his father. Hell, he even offered to fight for Iran in the war against Iraq. I admire that quite a bit that he was willing to set aside political differences to fight for his nation.

What kind of government would you like to see in Iran, Pilar?

Honestly, Reza Pahlavi is one of the, hands down, nicest people in the opposition to the government (and, despite his lack of academic education in political matters, surprisingly one of the most spoken), but I'm down with any form of liberal democratic government, as long as the constitution is stable enough. Hell, even the Islamic Republic might have been reformable (or, rather, salvageable) had Wilayat-i-Faqih not been one of its primary tenants -mind you, it'd take a lot of work to secularize that shitshow, but it'd still be possible. To be honest, though, I'm kinda glad they didn't catch The Shah. Dude was terminally ill at that point (seriously, had quite a few cancers, and was physically ill), he deserved dying at peace...

Tbh, I honestly quite like Reza Pahlavi, too. I'd be up for an actual constitutional monarchy under him.

And I'm aware of how sick he was. It was probably one of the things that made him behave so erratically towards the end of his reign. That doesn't at all mean that he deserved anything. He had still been a brutal dictator. In an ideal world, he would have received a fair trial and been judged guilty for his crimes before being executed. That wouldn't have happened but a man can dream.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

And Iraqis simply slaughtered royal family, without bothering with banishment.

The Iraqi Royal Family still technically exists. They rule Jordan. The Hashemites have been one of the most influential families in the Arab world for decades.

[Shofercia]

..there is not a discussion which is not about a false here, where has the school gone, that should teach the ability to acknowledge?

there is no way to counter little politics propaganda (may be Assad, Putin, and so on) with an incapable populace. the rest is small things

And all your base are belong to us!

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/indepth/features/palestinians-face-explosive-bullets-dangerous-gas-bombs-180501091514736.html?__twitter_impression=true

Israel is using explosive bullets and chemical weapons on protesters

Human Rights only matter, in the Geopolitical sense, when some Great Power cares about them. Nothing will happen to Israel for it.

[Socialist Czechia]

muslims are a lot more conservative and reactionary

I'll take, "what is Rojava," for $500, Alex.

Kurds are in many things an exception amongst Sunnis. That's what so many people forget: they are technically Sunnis, just as same as Saudis
In treatment of women, for example, they are way ahead of all other muslim states around.

And Iraqis simply slaughtered royal family, without bothering with banishment.

The Iraqi Royal Family still technically exists. They rule Jordan. The Hashemites have been one of the most influential families in the Arab world for decades.

It's surprise, then, that Jordan had close ties to Iraq afterwards

If these animals butchered my family like that, I'd certainly as a monarch supported their enemies to rest of my days or at least send assassins.

[Northern Davincia]

If the Shah is to be reinstated, let him be an American puppet again.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

The Iraqi Royal Family still technically exists. They rule Jordan. The Hashemites have been one of the most influential families in the Arab world for decades.

It's surprise, then, that Jordan had close ties to Iraq afterwards

If these animals butchered my family like that, I'd certainly as a monarch supported their enemies to rest of my days or at least send assassins.

You seem to be mistaken. They didn't have close ties. Not for a few decades. Then realpolitik won out and they reestablished ties in 1979. Saddam wanted more Arab allies to counter Iran and propagate his Arab supremacist ideology and Jordan desperately needed Iraqi oil.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

If the Shah is to be reinstated, let him be an American puppet again.

No.

[Northern Davincia]

If the Shah is to be reinstated, let him be an American puppet again.

No.

I'm quite fond of the idea, as the major Middle Eastern countries, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, are already under the thumb of Washington. Adding one more to the trophy case helps us out greatly.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

No.

I'm quite fond of the idea, as the major Middle Eastern countries, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, are already under the thumb of Washington. Adding one more to the trophy case helps us out greatly.

The leader of a country is supposed to help that country's people, not foreign nations.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

No.

I'm quite fond of the idea, as the major Middle Eastern countries, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, are already under the thumb of Washington. Adding one more to the trophy case helps us out greatly.

I'm sure you are quite fond of the idea. I'm well-aware that the idea of an American empire that spans the entire world is a wet dream of yours. Too bad. The Iranian people may be tired of the Islamic Republic but that doesn't mean they love America either.

[Northern Davincia]

I'm quite fond of the idea, as the major Middle Eastern countries, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, are already under the thumb of Washington. Adding one more to the trophy case helps us out greatly.

The leader of a country is supposed to help that country's people, not foreign nations.

Who said anything about helping?

I'm quite fond of the idea, as the major Middle Eastern countries, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, are already under the thumb of Washington. Adding one more to the trophy case helps us out greatly.

I'm sure you are quite fond of the idea. I'm well-aware that the idea of an American empire that spans the entire world is a wet dream of yours. Too bad. The Iranian people may be tired of the Islamic Republic but that doesn't mean they love America either.

They don't have to love America right away, but over time I think they'll come to appreciate western gifts as they had under the Shah.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

I'm sure you are quite fond of the idea. I'm well-aware that the idea of an American empire that spans the entire world is a wet dream of yours. Too bad. The Iranian people may be tired of the Islamic Republic but that doesn't mean they love America either.

They don't have to love America right away, but over time I think they'll come to appreciate western gifts as they had under the Shah.

You done with your America Fuck Yeah wanking now?

[Northern Davincia]

They don't have to love America right away, but over time I think they'll come to appreciate western gifts as they had under the Shah.

You done with your America Fuck Yeah wanking now?

Yeah, I got it out of my system for now.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The leader of a country is supposed to help that country's people, not foreign nations.

Who said anything about helping?

Me

[Northern Davincia]

Who said anything about helping?

Me

Eliminating a foe of America by influencing their affairs directly is helping the country. World safety is the most obvious benefit.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Me

Eliminating a foe of America by influencing their affairs directly is helping the country.

No it's not. It only helps the US, not necessarily the people.

World safety is the most obvious benefit.

If the US cared about world safety, they'd stop overthrowing govs just because they disagree.