Middle East Conflict Megathread (Syria, Iraq, Yemen, etc)

[Fahran]

Okay. Ill bite.

If he has a wife and three children. Clearly he had to fuck to make those kids. There is little to no evidence that he likes men.

Maybe someone else did it. Just like someone else dropped all that chlorine gas on civilians opposed to his regime.

Do you see how ridiculous the false flag operation argument sounds now?

And this whole discussion happened because I called Assad a faggot as an insult

We probably shouldn't use homophobic slurs in general, but this entire thread has been insanity so I figured I'd use it as an example.

[Mujahidah]

Assad isn't a man I like. He is a man of many flaws. He is a brutal dictator who kills his own people using Chemical Weapons. However, I'm pretty sure he isn't gay.

I used the term "faggot" as an insult, OK?

I'm aware. Don't do that. It makes you hard to be taken seriously.

[Socialist Czechia]

Okay. Ill bite.

If he has a wife and three children. Clearly he had to fuck to make those kids. There is little to no evidence that he likes men.

Maybe someone else did it. Just like someone else dropped all that chlorine gas on civilians opposed to his regime.

Do you see how ridiculous the false flag operation argument sounds now?

Just one look on Syrian Civil War frontlines clearly shows there are many groups with various agendas. Do you really think it's so complicated to get some Chlorine? You can buy truck of it yourself
Of course it depends how much corruption exists in your country or how much your companies care about proper paperwork.



Besides, how exactly Tahrir al-Sham (Al-Qaeda) ended being the GOOD guys in Western medias?
While they ARE same brutal, extreme and deranged like ISIL...

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

I used the term "faggot" as an insult, OK?

I'm aware. Don't do that. It makes you hard to be taken seriously.

Just couldn't think of any other words to describe him

[Fahran]

Just one look on Syrian Civil War frontlines clearly shows there are many groups with various agendas. Do you really think it's so complicated to get some Chlorine? You can buy truck of it yourself

There are lots of men in Syria and in the world. Do you really think that Assad is the only person who could be the father of his children?

Besides, how exactly Tahrir al-Sham (Al-Qaeda) ended being the GOOD guys in Western medias?
While they ARE same brutal, extreme and deranged like ISIL...

Opposing Assad doesn't mean supporting al-Qaeda. Multiple rebel groups have actually fought against al-Qaeda, including factions of the FSA and the SDF.

Just couldn't think of any other words to describe him

Comparing fabulous gay men to Assad is an insult to fabulous gay men. Also, work on getting more creative with your insults, though perhaps not on NS. It's generally seen as bad form.

[New Emeline]

I'm aware. Don't do that. It makes you hard to be taken seriously.

Just couldn't think of any other words to describe him

Really? No other word came to mind?

[Socialist Czechia]

Opposing Assad doesn't mean supporting al-Qaeda. Multiple rebel groups have actually fought against al-Qaeda, including factions of the FSA and the SDF.

When you look on the map, the most 'Rebel' areas are actually the Al Qaeda's areas - the big blob around Idlib is almost exclusively Al Qaeda.
'FSA' holds just few tiny pockets and plays Vichy Syria for Turks.

FSA, is basically nothing now. And wasn't much even before.

[North Malagasy]

Obviously that faggot Assad. He's done it before.

Assad isn't a man I like. He is a man of many flaws. He is a brutal dictator who kills his own people using Chemical Weapons. However, I'm pretty sure he isn't gay.

I agree. so does this guy:

Comparing fabulous gay men to Assad is an insult to fabulous gay men. Also, work on getting more creative with your insults, though perhaps not on NS. It's generally seen as bad form.

This is very true.

Kinda pathetic, how everyone in last 7 years condemns Assad for every (perceived, real or untrue) reason possible.

While Omar Hassan Ahmad al-Bashir, for example, is undoubtedly war criminal and mass murderer: but who cares about Sudan?
Arabia is ruled by extremist totalitarian regime for decades, hellhole for everyone, but oil is oil.

Who cares about Yemen, where Wahhabists uses ethnic and religious cleansing and mercenaries, denying help to civilians wherever possible?
Who cares about Libya, mostly rejecting internationally supported extremist government, rather fighting Tobruk government?
Who cares about Somaliland, the only functional government in Somalia no one recognizes?

So much excrements around, but everyone throws it only to Assad's face

Me. I care about how brutal the Saudi government is.

They're all horrible situations, there is no point in blaming one single ethnic group or leader.

You mean a weak, puppet government that allows millions of their own people to be killed by terrorists?

ISIS is screwed anyway. And I'm suggesting a situation similar to Afghanistan, where the US doesn't royally fuck everything up.

ISIS being screwed is not gonna solve all of Iraq's problems.

[Fahran]

When you look on the map, the most 'Rebel' areas are actually the Al Qaeda's areas - the big blob around Idlib is almost exclusively Al Qaeda.

That's fine if you ignore the SDF, who Assad will probably have to a cut a deal with, and the pockets of the FSA that aren't nudged against the Turkish border. Other than that half the non-SDF rebel controlled areas are controlled by the FSA. Both of those groups have received western support.

'FSA' holds just few tiny pockets and plays Vichy Syria for Turks.

FSA, is basically nothing now. And wasn't much even before.

They were one of the largest forces opposed to Assad at the beginning of the conflict and have been gradually replaced with al-Qaeda affiliates and other Islamists as desperation set in. Additionally, Assad may have been partially responsible for the proliferation of terrorist groups in the region.

Source.

[Socialist Czechia]

Additionally, Assad may have been partially responsible for the proliferation of terrorist groups in the region.

People will just never tire of claims, summarized to: 'Assad did everything'.

Because you can't forgive him that he's still alive and standing his ground for 7 years, while he was buried by West since 2012.

He just refused to be exiled, prosecuted or murdered by rabble and you can't forgive him that. xD

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Just couldn't think of any other words to describe him

Comparing fabulous gay men to Assad is an insult to fabulous gay men. Also, work on getting more creative with your insults, though perhaps not on NS. It's generally seen as bad form.

Ok, I won't call him that again.

[Salus Maior]

Maybe someone else did it. Just like someone else dropped all that chlorine gas on civilians opposed to his regime.

Do you see how ridiculous the false flag operation argument sounds now?

Just one look on Syrian Civil War frontlines clearly shows there are many groups with various agendas. Do you really think it's so complicated to get some Chlorine? You can buy truck of it yourself

The rebels have actually used chemical weapons before and it's known that they have them (as does Assad). So whether or not they have them isn't really a question.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Just one look on Syrian Civil War frontlines clearly shows there are many groups with various agendas. Do you really think it's so complicated to get some Chlorine? You can buy truck of it yourself

The rebels have actually used chemical weapons before and it's known that they have them (as does Assad). So whether or not they have them isn't really a question.

Sources please?

[Fahran]

People will just never tire of claims, summarized to: 'Assad did everything'.

He's accused of very specific things. Torture, using chemical weapons, targeting civilians, suppressing ethnic and religious minorities, etc.

Because you can't forgive him that he's still alive and standing his ground for 7 years, while he was buried by West since 2012.

The West has hardly intervened in this conflict. If anything, Assad's allies have been far more inclined to intervene and have played an important role in propping him up, especially Hezbollah and Russia.

He just refused to be exiled, prosecuted or murdered by rabble and you can't forgive him that. xD

He also refused to allow democratic elections, refused to stop using chemical weapons, refused to stop targeting civilians with bombs, refused to stop torturing and imprisoning political dissidents, and generally refused to address any of the prerequisite causes of this conflict.

[Socialist Czechia]

Just one look on Syrian Civil War frontlines clearly shows there are many groups with various agendas. Do you really think it's so complicated to get some Chlorine? You can buy truck of it yourself

The rebels have actually used chemical weapons before and it's known that they have them (as does Assad). So whether or not they have them isn't really a question.

I know that, but many still believe, that after 7 years of warfare, only Assad alone here is Joker-level evil enough to use them...

These Chlorine attacks are incredibly obviously made by 'rebels' to get sympathy. If Sarin or VX was used, sure, that's not easy to made or get.
But Chlorine? Phosgene? Even Yperite? You can made and use them quite easily, almost anywhere.

Anyone here can buy legally high quantities of Chlorine and Phosgene is byproduct of natura decay of plants. Yperite/Mustard Gas can be also made from many legally and easily obtained chemicals.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

The rebels have actually used chemical weapons before and it's known that they have them (as does Assad). So whether or not they have them isn't really a question.

I know that, but many still believe, that after 7 years of warfare, only Assad alone here is Joker-level evil enough to use them...

These Chlorine attacks are incredibly obviously made by 'rebels' to get sympathy. If Sarin or VX was used, sure, that's not easy to made or get.
But Chlorine? Phosgene? Even Yperite? You can made and use them quite easily, almost anywhere.

Anyone here can buy legally high quantities of Chlorine and Phosgene is byproduct of natura decay of plants. Yperite/Mustard Gas can be also made from many legally and easily obtained chemicals.

Blood and urine samples from the attack tested positive for chlorine and nerve agents.

[Salus Maior]

The rebels have actually used chemical weapons before and it's known that they have them (as does Assad). So whether or not they have them isn't really a question.

Sources please?

https://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-un- ... es/5363139

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... sads-regi/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/syrian-re ... ator-says/

[Socialist Czechia]

Blood and urine samples from the attack tested positive for chlorine and nerve agents.

I know. And that still doesn't mean anything: military grade nerve agents still very differs from ones made in primitive laboratory.

Remember that Japanese sect what attacked Tokyo underground with Sarin in 1990s?
It certainly wasn't military grade Sarin, as it would killed thousands. It wasn't clean at all, barely any major concentration.

If Assad used military grade nerve agent against Rebels, you can be absolutely sure, no one would survive, not even rats in whole affected city.

[Salus Maior]

The rebels have actually used chemical weapons before and it's known that they have them (as does Assad). So whether or not they have them isn't really a question.

I know that, but many still believe, that after 7 years of warfare, only Assad alone here is Joker-level evil enough to use them...

These Chlorine attacks are incredibly obviously made by 'rebels' to get sympathy. If Sarin or VX was used, sure, that's not easy to made or get.
But Chlorine? Phosgene? Even Yperite? You can made and use them quite easily, almost anywhere.

Anyone here can buy legally high quantities of Chlorine and Phosgene is byproduct of natura decay of plants. Yperite/Mustard Gas can be also made from many legally and easily obtained chemicals.

The Rebels probably would have gotten them from the Government weapons stockpiles they took.

[Reploid Productions]

Who are these idiots and why are there so dense?

Were you dropped on the head as a child?

This is not how we debate people here. You can attack the argument all you like, you don't get to attack the person making the argument. That's called flaming, and that is not permitted by the site rules. Knock it off.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Socialist Czechia]

The Rebels probably would have gotten them from the Government weapons stockpiles they took.

Who knows. When ISIL took half Syria, they could have it too, and then, somehow, it ended in Al Qaeda/FSA's hands.

[United Ardahaminia]

*sees Syria crisis* well, here we come ww3! *moves to Switzerland to avoid nuclear holocaust*

[Socialist Czechia]

*sees Syria crisis* well, here we come ww3! *moves to Switzerland to avoid nuclear holocaust*

[Durin VII]

1) And by what means do you believe Russia would 'lose' on the long term?

Russia has no realistic way of maintaining its old sphere of influence given modern geopolitics and its rapidly declining economic and political capital. Ukraine, the Baltic states, and other former Soviet satellites will eventually drift closer to Europe since Germany, France, the UK, and the EU more generally possess vastly more political, economic, and cultural capital at the moment and offer something more than the prospect of licking the boots of some strongman perched in Moscow.

At the moment, Russia appears to be heavily reliant on force, such as their invasion of Ukraine, and past traditions of ethnic cleansing, such as the policies that led to such vast Russian influence in places like Lithuania, to project its power beyond its immediate borders. In a couple generations, that'll cease to be an effective strategy for power projection. The alternative, aligning itself with China and international pariahs, might work a little while longer, but that house of cards is already unstable. Syria will inevitably have to deal with another uprising if Assad doesn't address societal inequalities and the demand for increased liberties. Iran has already had multiple flare-ups as a result of its exceedingly theocratic government. North Korea will collapse the minute China isn't there to protect it and coalition boots hit its soil. Eventually, Russia winds up standing by itself.

2) UN Security Council Resolution #688 did not gave permission for that. Even the Secretary-General of the UN at the time the resolution was passed (Boutros Boutros-Ghali) called the no-fly zones illegal.

It didn't give explicit permission for it, and Boutros-Ghali did call the no-fly zone illegal. However, realistically, there was no other course UN member-states could take to prevent genocide and ethnic cleansing in Iraq without imposing a no-fly zone. By the implications of the resolution, this means that such actions could have been deemed legal. This is why the US, UK, and France enacted it without too many qualms initially.

3) 'Do you honestly believe that Assad would go free if he turned himself in for trial at the Hague?' I'm fairly sure he wouldn't, just like with many other world leaders, though i don't think he would be found guilty on the chemical weapons attack.

Why wouldn't he go free then? Do you believe they'd get him on charges of torture then?

On the other hand though, i wonder. You don't believe Assad because you believe he would be stupid enough to commit such an act,

Stupid? Not at all. The international community allowed him to get away with it multiple times. At this point, he could reasonably bet on getting away with it again and on people like you defending him regardless of how abundant the evidence of his guilt, which you still haven't managed to explain away, was.

yet you do believe a terrorist organisation (Jaysh al-Islam, they're the ones who called in the chemical attack and laid the blame on Assad) who has been known to have used chemical weapons (on april 7 2016 they shelled a neighbourhood in Aleppo.

I believe them and the numerous other groups who are alleging that Assad is guilty, yes. It'd be one thing if it was just the opposition making these claims and if the circumstantial evidence didn't almost always validate them when they made these claims. The problem with that is that these attacks almost always seem to benefit Assad and hurt the rebels. And the international community has arrived at the same consensus.

Source.

As for explanations, there's nothing to explain. As I've stated, some rebel groups probably deployed illegal weapons as well. Assad has done it more regularly and to greater effect. He's also the principal reason that around twenty two percent of the population is displaced.

4) In Iraq the Kurds barely came outside of their own region and the vast majority of fighting was done by the Iraqi army and the allied militias. In Syria, granted, they did a lot more, but still not enough to be booked as 'instrumental' from my point of view (unless you view the Syrian army, Iraqi army and Iraqi militias as instrumental as well). From my perspective it was a 'team' effort in which many parties did a lot, but none of them really jumped out enough to be called instrumental.

According to most of the sources I've read, Raqqa was captured almost exclusively by Kurdish units, without any assistance from Damascus. The campaign as a whole received minimal support from militias loyal to Damascus, though those units sustained no casualties. As far as I've read, though admittedly it's been primarily from Kurdish and Iraqi sources, the SAA was primarily focused on fighting the FSA throughout these campaigns. Given the pivotal role, the SDF played both in handing Daesh its first significant defeat in Syria and in capturing their operational center in Syria, I believe that instrumental is absolutely the correct label.

1) Right man, keep on dreaming.

2) You can twist the matter as much as you desire to stamp it into a box which could fall under legal matters, but in the end it was illegal in every way, shape and form. Oh, and lets be honest here, it's not like the US, UK, France or any other substantial power for that matter has ever cared about international law.

3) Amongst others. Assad is far from an angel.

4) Good to know that you blindly believe some wild accusations, amongst others even from terrorists known to have used chemical weapons. Good in the sense that it means i can stop arguing about it right here and right now.

5) You do realize that Daesh had more land under its control in Syria than just Ar-Raqqah right? I'll admit that the SAA often used the fighting amongst rebels and Daesh in its favour, but saying they were primarily focused on fighting the FSA is quite the overstatement. In fact, the evidence is right there. The FSA still exists and is still considered a reasonable force, Daesh on the other hand has pretty much vanished from the map and roughly half of their former territory in Syria now belongs to the Syrian government.

[MERIZoC]

Damascus is being bombed