NATION

PASSWORD

Middle East Conflict Megathread (Syria, Iraq, Yemen, etc)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What faction(s) do you support in the Syrian civil war? Check any that apply

Syrian government/SAA
98
18%
Syrian Democratic Forces/YPG
124
22%
Tahrir al-Sham (Nusra)
10
2%
Ahrar al-Sham/other opposition
14
3%
Turkey/TFSA
20
4%
ISIS
17
3%
Hezbollah
40
7%
Russia
55
10%
United States/NATO/Israel
130
23%
Iran
49
9%
 
Total votes : 557

User avatar
The Knockout Gun Gals
Senator
 
Posts: 4919
Founded: Aug 06, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Knockout Gun Gals » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:08 am

Aulus Maximus wrote:
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:Not very far from few Sunni Muslim communities, though. I know there are few who kind of...well, like that.

There are Sunni groups that do condemn non-Sunnis or even Sunnis that do not hold to their viewpoints yes. But again, it's an over generalization. Not all Sunnis go out and takfir people.

There are all sorts of people among Sunnis and Shias, really.


Yes, true enough.
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
TriStates wrote:Covenant declare a crusade, and wage jihad against the UNSC and Insurrectionists for 30 years.

So Covenant declare a crusade and then wage jihad? :p

User avatar
MERIZoC
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:38 am

Baltenstein wrote:
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
Forgive me for my lack of knowledge about Kurdish, but why their chance would be zero solid if they siding with Assad and Russia?


Assad has made it clear on several occasions that he won't tolerate any Kurdish break-away separatism on his authority. For the Kurds, siding with Assad would simply mean returning to the Status Quo Ante, which is the opposite of what the SDF wants.

TEV-DEM has made it clear it is not interested in separatism

User avatar
The Knockout Gun Gals
Senator
 
Posts: 4919
Founded: Aug 06, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Knockout Gun Gals » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:39 am

MERIZoC wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
Assad has made it clear on several occasions that he won't tolerate any Kurdish break-away separatism on his authority. For the Kurds, siding with Assad would simply mean returning to the Status Quo Ante, which is the opposite of what the SDF wants.

TEV-DEM has made it clear it is not interested in separatism


So...more like an autonomous status? That seems a little bit better. I say little bit, because of course there are still voices of full independence.
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
TriStates wrote:Covenant declare a crusade, and wage jihad against the UNSC and Insurrectionists for 30 years.

So Covenant declare a crusade and then wage jihad? :p

User avatar
Aulus Maximus
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 452
Founded: Mar 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Aulus Maximus » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:14 am

The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:TEV-DEM has made it clear it is not interested in separatism


So...more like an autonomous status? That seems a little bit better. I say little bit, because of course there are still voices of full independence.

AFAIK TEV-DEM wants a federalization of Syria with Rojava having an own state constitution.
Caliph Ron al-Pauliyya for American Sultanate 2020
Body is purified by water. Ego by tears. Intellect is purified by knowledge. And soul is purified with love. ~hz. Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra)
Offen love between two people intensifies not because of beauty or some advantage, but because of sheer spiritual affinity. ~hz. Al Ghazali

User avatar
Socialist Czechia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6183
Founded: Apr 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Czechia » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:00 am

Aulus Maximus wrote:
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
So...more like an autonomous status? That seems a little bit better. I say little bit, because of course there are still voices of full independence.

AFAIK TEV-DEM wants a federalization of Syria with Rojava having an own state constitution.


And Assad is surely not a such optimistic fool (after almost decade of civil war) to expect simple return to status quo, just like that.
Reforms will be necessary, whether he likes it or not. So, Kurds and the government should find solution possible for both sides.

Because compromise is, when neither side is happy.
"Those who reached my boundary, their seed is not; their hearts and their souls are finished forever and ever. As for those who had assembled before them on the sea, the full flame was their front before the harbour mouths, and a wall of metal upon the shore surrounded them. They were dragged, overturned, and laid low upon the beach; slain and made heaps from stern to bow of their galleys, while all their things were cast upon the water." - Ramesses III., Battle of the Delta

User avatar
The Sauganash Union
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1154
Founded: Mar 08, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sauganash Union » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:03 am

Is there any particular reason why American foreign policy seems to oppose Arab nationalist and Shia dictatorships because of their oppressiveness, but is totally okay with the even more oppressive Sunni Gulf states?
A nation founded in the early 1800s by Federalist immigrants from the United States. Has since developed an identity of its own and imperial ambitions. Now a neoliberal imperial power that justifies its aggression by putting it the name of tolerance and social justice.


Handshakes and tie knots. I don't have time for someone who can't master these simple things.

User avatar
Aulus Maximus
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 452
Founded: Mar 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Aulus Maximus » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:04 am

The Sauganash Union wrote:Is there any particular reason why American foreign policy seems to oppose Arab nationalist and Shia dictatorships because of their oppressiveness, but is totally okay with the even more oppressive Sunni Gulf states?

Oil
Caliph Ron al-Pauliyya for American Sultanate 2020
Body is purified by water. Ego by tears. Intellect is purified by knowledge. And soul is purified with love. ~hz. Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra)
Offen love between two people intensifies not because of beauty or some advantage, but because of sheer spiritual affinity. ~hz. Al Ghazali

User avatar
Socialist Czechia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6183
Founded: Apr 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Czechia » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:14 am

The Sauganash Union wrote:Is there any particular reason why American foreign policy seems to oppose Arab nationalist and Shia dictatorships because of their oppressiveness, but is totally okay with the even more oppressive Sunni Gulf states?


Duh, because there is a lot more Sunnis than Shias. Realpolitik.

It's funny though, that Islamic Republic of Iran is considered a total evil, since Khamenei's paradise is still incredibly democratic compared to nightmarish oppression of Wahhabist regime.
"Those who reached my boundary, their seed is not; their hearts and their souls are finished forever and ever. As for those who had assembled before them on the sea, the full flame was their front before the harbour mouths, and a wall of metal upon the shore surrounded them. They were dragged, overturned, and laid low upon the beach; slain and made heaps from stern to bow of their galleys, while all their things were cast upon the water." - Ramesses III., Battle of the Delta

User avatar
Aulus Maximus
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 452
Founded: Mar 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Aulus Maximus » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:15 am

Socialist Czechia wrote:
The Sauganash Union wrote:Is there any particular reason why American foreign policy seems to oppose Arab nationalist and Shia dictatorships because of their oppressiveness, but is totally okay with the even more oppressive Sunni Gulf states?


Duh, because there is a lot more Sunnis than Shias. Realpolitik.

It's funny though, that Islamic Republic of Iran is considered a total evil, since Khamenei's paradise is still incredibly democratic compared to nightmarish oppression of Wahhabist regime.

Iran also has a bigger lobby to elimenate Israel from the map than Saudi Arabia does. This might be the reason as well.
Caliph Ron al-Pauliyya for American Sultanate 2020
Body is purified by water. Ego by tears. Intellect is purified by knowledge. And soul is purified with love. ~hz. Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra)
Offen love between two people intensifies not because of beauty or some advantage, but because of sheer spiritual affinity. ~hz. Al Ghazali

User avatar
Socialist Czechia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6183
Founded: Apr 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Czechia » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:18 am

Aulus Maximus wrote:
Socialist Czechia wrote:
Duh, because there is a lot more Sunnis than Shias. Realpolitik.

It's funny though, that Islamic Republic of Iran is considered a total evil, since Khamenei's paradise is still incredibly democratic compared to nightmarish oppression of Wahhabist regime.

Iran also has a bigger lobby to elimenate Israel from the map than Saudi Arabia does. This might be the reason as well.


if I remember correctly (oh, I do), Wahhabists bought ballistic missiles from PRC some decades ago and had northern missile base (you can figure out why).
And actually also tried to get nuclear warhead (although Wahhabists rather tried to buy some not develop it)-
"Those who reached my boundary, their seed is not; their hearts and their souls are finished forever and ever. As for those who had assembled before them on the sea, the full flame was their front before the harbour mouths, and a wall of metal upon the shore surrounded them. They were dragged, overturned, and laid low upon the beach; slain and made heaps from stern to bow of their galleys, while all their things were cast upon the water." - Ramesses III., Battle of the Delta

User avatar
Aulus Maximus
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 452
Founded: Mar 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Aulus Maximus » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:21 am

Socialist Czechia wrote:
Aulus Maximus wrote:Iran also has a bigger lobby to elimenate Israel from the map than Saudi Arabia does. This might be the reason as well.


if I remember correctly (oh, I do), Wahhabists bought ballistic missiles from PRC some decades ago and had northern missile base (you can figure out why).
And actually also tried to get nuclear warhead (although Wahhabists rather tried to buy some not develop it)-

Saudi Arabia develops drones together with Israel and sells them to said country through technology from South Africa. They don't have official ties but they do a lot of things behind the curtain. Israel often said that Saudi Arabia is a guarantee of stability of the Middle East as well. It isn't a lie as well that they have a common goal against Iran as well.
Caliph Ron al-Pauliyya for American Sultanate 2020
Body is purified by water. Ego by tears. Intellect is purified by knowledge. And soul is purified with love. ~hz. Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra)
Offen love between two people intensifies not because of beauty or some advantage, but because of sheer spiritual affinity. ~hz. Al Ghazali

User avatar
Socialist Czechia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6183
Founded: Apr 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Czechia » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:52 am

Aulus Maximus wrote:
Socialist Czechia wrote:
if I remember correctly (oh, I do), Wahhabists bought ballistic missiles from PRC some decades ago and had northern missile base (you can figure out why).
And actually also tried to get nuclear warhead (although Wahhabists rather tried to buy some not develop it)-

Saudi Arabia develops drones together with Israel and sells them to said country through technology from South Africa. They don't have official ties but they do a lot of things behind the curtain. Israel often said that Saudi Arabia is a guarantee of stability of the Middle East as well. It isn't a lie as well that they have a common goal against Iran as well.


I am just saying, that not so long ago, before Islamic Republic was declared an enemy of the world, Wahhabists had some bombic plans involving Jews too ;)
"Those who reached my boundary, their seed is not; their hearts and their souls are finished forever and ever. As for those who had assembled before them on the sea, the full flame was their front before the harbour mouths, and a wall of metal upon the shore surrounded them. They were dragged, overturned, and laid low upon the beach; slain and made heaps from stern to bow of their galleys, while all their things were cast upon the water." - Ramesses III., Battle of the Delta

User avatar
Baltenstein
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11008
Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Baltenstein » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:12 am

Socialist Czechia wrote:
Aulus Maximus wrote:Saudi Arabia develops drones together with Israel and sells them to said country through technology from South Africa. They don't have official ties but they do a lot of things behind the curtain. Israel often said that Saudi Arabia is a guarantee of stability of the Middle East as well. It isn't a lie as well that they have a common goal against Iran as well.


I am just saying, that not so long ago, before Islamic Republic was declared an enemy of the world, Wahhabists had some bombic plans involving Jews too ;)


And Israel was one of the very, very few countries that supported Iran against Iraq back during the First Gulf War, because they thought they would make a good counter-weight against Saddam. Everybody double-crosses everybody in the Middle East, nothing new here.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


THE NORTH REMEMBERS

User avatar
Chikotsu
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Nov 03, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chikotsu » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:01 am

The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:TEV-DEM has made it clear it is not interested in separatism


So...more like an autonomous status? That seems a little bit better. I say little bit, because of course there are still voices of full independence.

really it's bound up in the ideology of the PYD/YPG/J/etc. this sort of obscures the detail but you could understand it as being less about a particular political framework than the 'rojava revolution' as a whole

User avatar
Auze
Minister
 
Posts: 2076
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Auze » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:13 am

Baltenstein wrote:And Israel was one of the very, very few countries that supported Iran against Iraq back during the First Gulf War, because they thought they would make a good counter-weight against Saddam. Everybody double-crosses everybody in the Middle East, nothing new here.

Double crossing in alliances: One of the oldest middle eastern traditions. It is the area were conquest was invented, after all.
Hello, I'm an Latter-day Saint kid from South Carolina!
In case you're wondering, it's pronounced ['ɑ.ziː].
My political views are best described as "incoherent"

Anyway, how about a game?
[spoiler=Views I guess]RIP LWDT & RWDT. Y'all did not go gentle into that good night.
In general I am a Centrist

I disown most of my previous posts (with a few exceptions)

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:25 am

Baltenstein wrote:
Socialist Czechia wrote:
I am just saying, that not so long ago, before Islamic Republic was declared an enemy of the world, Wahhabists had some bombic plans involving Jews too ;)


And Israel was one of the very, very few countries that supported Iran against Iraq back during the First Gulf War, because they thought they would make a good counter-weight against Saddam. Everybody double-crosses everybody in theMiddle East, literally everywhere nothing new here.


It's also a favored European pastime. And Asian, really.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
Baltenstein
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11008
Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Baltenstein » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:56 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
And Israel was one of the very, very few countries that supported Iran against Iraq back during the First Gulf War, because they thought they would make a good counter-weight against Saddam. Everybody double-crosses everybody in theMiddle East, literally everywhere nothing new here.


It's also a favored European pastime. And Asian, really.


Yeah but in this day and age, the Middle East is the undisputed champion. If it was an actual sports discipline, Middle Eastern countries might actually win a few cups for a change.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


THE NORTH REMEMBERS

User avatar
MERIZoC
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:05 am

Ah yes, the trope of the treacherous Arab/Jew/Persian never gets old.

Perhaps we should all be posting the meme with the grotesque caricature rubbing his hands, just to drive the point home?

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:11 am

MERIZoC wrote:Ah yes, the trope of the treacherous Arab/Jew/Persian never gets old.

Perhaps we should all be posting the meme with the grotesque caricature rubbing his hands, just to drive the point home?

The Arab is the most trustworthy race of mankind. Their innate sense of justice and virtue should be admired by all, and rewarded with a state from Morocco to the Gulf.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

User avatar
The Sauganash Union
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1154
Founded: Mar 08, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sauganash Union » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:13 am

Baltenstein wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
It's also a favored European pastime. And Asian, really.


Yeah but in this day and age, the Middle East is the undisputed champion. If it was an actual sports discipline, Middle Eastern countries might actually win a few cups for a change.


The Middle East and Western Asia have it down to a science.

Just look at the Mujaheddin.
A nation founded in the early 1800s by Federalist immigrants from the United States. Has since developed an identity of its own and imperial ambitions. Now a neoliberal imperial power that justifies its aggression by putting it the name of tolerance and social justice.


Handshakes and tie knots. I don't have time for someone who can't master these simple things.

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:13 am

Baltenstein wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
It's also a favored European pastime. And Asian, really.


Yeah but in this day and age, the Middle East is the undisputed champion. If it was an actual sports discipline, Middle Eastern countries might actually win a few cups for a change.


Well, true. Because it's a hotspot of conflict. Like, say, Europe in the 19th century.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
The Sauganash Union
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1154
Founded: Mar 08, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sauganash Union » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:14 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Ah yes, the trope of the treacherous Arab/Jew/Persian never gets old.

Perhaps we should all be posting the meme with the grotesque caricature rubbing his hands, just to drive the point home?

The Arab is the most trustworthy race of mankind. Their innate sense of justice and virtue should be admired by all, and rewarded with a state from Morocco to the Gulf.


lol
A nation founded in the early 1800s by Federalist immigrants from the United States. Has since developed an identity of its own and imperial ambitions. Now a neoliberal imperial power that justifies its aggression by putting it the name of tolerance and social justice.


Handshakes and tie knots. I don't have time for someone who can't master these simple things.

User avatar
Baltenstein
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11008
Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Baltenstein » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:17 am

MERIZoC wrote:Ah yes, the trope of the treacherous Arab/Jew/Persian never gets old.

Perhaps we should all be posting the meme with the grotesque caricature rubbing his hands, just to drive the point home?


So you're saying...what? That the players in the Mid-East (note: this includes outside factions too, like the US or Russia) don't backstab each other all the time? Because they totally do.

Salus Maior wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
Yeah but in this day and age, the Middle East is the undisputed champion. If it was an actual sports discipline, Middle Eastern countries might actually win a few cups for a change.


Well, true. Because it's a hotspot of conflict. Like, say, Europe in the 19th century.


Good times, good times.

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Ah yes, the trope of the treacherous Arab/Jew/Persian never gets old.

Perhaps we should all be posting the meme with the grotesque caricature rubbing his hands, just to drive the point home?

The Arab is the most trustworthy race of mankind. Their innate sense of justice and virtue should be admired by all, and rewarded with a state from Morocco to the Gulf.


Signed: Somebody who isn't familiar with Realpolitik very much.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


THE NORTH REMEMBERS

User avatar
Pilarcraft
Senator
 
Posts: 3826
Founded: Dec 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Pilarcraft » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:17 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Ah yes, the trope of the treacherous Arab/Jew/Persian never gets old.

Perhaps we should all be posting the meme with the grotesque caricature rubbing his hands, just to drive the point home?

The Arab is the most trustworthy race of mankind. Their innate sense of justice and virtue should be admired by all, and rewarded with a state from Morocco to the Gulf.

is this satirical? please let this be satirical
The Confederal Alliance of Pilarcraft ✺ That world will cease to be
Led by The Triumvirate.
OOC | Military | History |Language | Overview | Parties | Q&A | Factbooks
Proud Civic Persian Nationalist
B.P.D.: Dossier on parallel home-worlds released, will be updated regularly to include more encountered in the Convergence.

User avatar
Auze
Minister
 
Posts: 2076
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Auze » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:46 am

Pilarcraft wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:The Arab is the most trustworthy race of mankind. Their innate sense of justice and virtue should be admired by all, and rewarded with a state from Morocco to the Gulf.

is this satirical? please let this be satirical

Looking at who posted it, yes, it is.
Hello, I'm an Latter-day Saint kid from South Carolina!
In case you're wondering, it's pronounced ['ɑ.ziː].
My political views are best described as "incoherent"

Anyway, how about a game?
[spoiler=Views I guess]RIP LWDT & RWDT. Y'all did not go gentle into that good night.
In general I am a Centrist

I disown most of my previous posts (with a few exceptions)

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aldygast, Ankoz, El Lazaro, Enormous Gentiles, Galloism, Grinning Dragon, ImperialRussia, Kenowa, Picairn, Port Caverton, Primitive Communism, Reloviskistan, Soviet Haaregrad, Stellar Colonies, Tarsonis, Techocracy101010, The Sherpa Empire, Umeria, Xmara, Yokron pro-government partisans

Advertisement

Remove ads