Middle East Conflict Megathread (Syria, Iraq, Yemen, etc)

[Pilarcraft]

So now it looks like we are trying to smear Syria with the "OMG CHEMICAL WEAPONS!" scam we pulled in Iraq and Libya.

Just stop it already. The tired old ploy is tired and old

well, I wouldn't know about Libya, but I know for a fact Iraq did use chemical weapons (mostly stuff they bought from Americans and Germans but I digress) and they used chemical weapons extensively.
Which, to be honest, isn't even that far from Assad's MO.

[Shofercia]

I'm not defending Turkey; I'm saying that they'll fail. That's not a defense.

Oh, we all know it's not Turkey you have a blind spot for.

Opposed Russia's Foreign Policy in Libya; I thought it was too soft. Turns out I was right. Also, I don't support Putin on Civil Rights, unrelated to voting. Wait, doesn't that mean that I don't have a blind spot, since you miss everything in your blind spot?

Looking on the Somalia and more recent example, Libya, is there really, literally any, viable alternative to Syrian regime?

If Assad's regime will fall, I see only worse things to come. I know you hate it to admit people, but he's still the best option here. Yes, despite all the nasty chemical and slaughtery things.

The Syrian regime isn’t an option. It’s Iranian puppet regime V.S. Turkish puppet regime V.S. PKK.

I think you're confusing the term "puppet regime" with the term "allied regime" - which is rather hilarious.

So now it looks like we are trying to smear Syria with the "OMG CHEMICAL WEAPONS!" scam we pulled in Iraq and Libya.

Just stop it already. The tired old ploy is tired and old

What if it's true though? Those "secular Arab dictatorships" tend to do things like that.

Are you still looking for WMDs in Iraq?

So now it looks like we are trying to smear Syria with the "OMG CHEMICAL WEAPONS!" scam we pulled in Iraq and Libya.

Just stop it already. The tired old ploy is tired and old

well, I wouldn't know about Libya, but I know for a fact Iraq did use chemical weapons (mostly stuff they bought from Americans and Germans but I digress) and they used chemical weapons extensively.
Which, to be honest, isn't even that far from Assad's MO.

In the 1980s...

[Shofercia]

Again, do you know how much this war is costing Russia? Because I don't think you do. Russia is deploying Special Forces and front line units, whose deployments are much easier to accomplish than the deployments of the regular armed forces. I did a Google search for the costs, skipped across the usual Russophobic drivel, (if an article is titled "the Syrian War will cost Russians Dearly, waaa!" I omitted that,) and came across this nice tidbit: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/h ... ia/ri16759



So let's say that the war actually costs Russia $1.5 billion a year. The GDP of Russia is $1,283 billion. That would place the war costs at 0.12% of Russia's GDP. But that, of course, neglects Russia's gains from the war. I am willing to bet you quite a bit that as a result of the war, Russian Arms Sales went up. Indeed, Russian Arms sales to the Middle East were worth... https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... evels.html



So Russia made $76.6 billion on arms sales increase. Of course that's gross revenue, but I doubt that net revenue would be any less than a quarter of said amount. Unlike the US in the Middle East, Russia is actually making money on this war, while kicking ass and taking names. But what of the servicemen being killed?

According to the Special Forces Doctrine, if you have less than 1% deaths, you are doing good. How many Russian Special Forces deployed to Syria? I'm not sure, but the Russians only had 45 deaths. So to summarize: the state is making money, the country is building its prestige, the servicemen are getting bonuses and the families of those who died are compensated for life. Tell me again, why would Russia stop?

Good job on getting a whole lot of nothing into the argument. I'm not even going to bother responding to it as you clearly miss the entire point of my post, the position of the Russian Federation and their goals in Syria.

From your post: I think you underestimate the costs of a war. Russia is not an economic powerhouse and cannot afford longterm deployments like the US can.

Regarding Syria, I clearly explained why that was a silly claim to make. You, on the other hand, have yet to mention any sources. Yes, Russia cannot afford long term deployments like the US can; however, that doesn't mean that Russia cannot afford a long term deployment is Syria, which is actually generating a net profit for Russia, as shown above. While the US is wasting trillions in Iraq, Russia is making billions in Syria, ergo judging Russia by American standards would be rather silly.

Why would Russia need to step up its military commitment? The current military commitment has been kicking ass and taking names. Why should said commitment be increased? It should be extended, and it will be extended. Russia's back, and Russia's there to stay, something the Kurds might want to appreciate, because at least the Russians will keep Assad off of their backs.

Because an official alliance would require exactly that.

Oh and no, it won't be extended and the Russians, as a deployed force, won't be there to stay at all.

No, an official alliance would mean that the de facto situation is raised to alliance level, once control over certain lands is regained. Official alliance would simply mean announcing the de facto situation, as de jure. As for the Russians staying in Syria - yeah the Russians will stay at Tartus and Latakia.

[Improved werpland]

I think you're confusing the term "puppet regime" with the term "allied regime" - which is rather hilarious.

Syria and its army have become so reliant on Iran that its pedantic to call them an allied regime.

Are you still looking for WMDs in Iraq?

No and that's a tired metanarrative. Ba'athist dictatorships should be called by what their most silly armchair activist supporters refer to them as, just to highlight how crappy they are.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I find it funny that people use the chemical weapons line to support bombing Assad, as if chemical weapons are somehow morally worse than area-of-effect conventional weapons.

[Pilarcraft]

I find it funny that people use the chemical weapons line to support bombing Assad, as if chemical weapons are somehow morally worse than area-of-effect conventional weapons.

They actually are morally worse than area of effect conventional missiles. They're so far from each other on the scale that they're not even in the same plane of competition. But I do agree that chemicals are irrelevant to bombing Assad. they have nothing to do with each other.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I find it funny that people use the chemical weapons line to support bombing Assad, as if chemical weapons are somehow morally worse than area-of-effect conventional weapons.

They actually are morally worse than area of effect conventional missiles. They're so far from each other on the scale that they're not even in the same plane of competition. But I do agree that chemicals are irrelevant to bombing Assad. they have nothing to do with each other.

I don't agree at all. Just because someone dies more painfully doesn't change that they die.

[Pope Joan]

So now it looks like we are trying to smear Syria with the "OMG CHEMICAL WEAPONS!" scam we pulled in Iraq and Libya.

Just stop it already. The tired old ploy is tired and old

well, I wouldn't know about Libya, but I know for a fact Iraq did use chemical weapons (mostly stuff they bought from Americans and Germans but I digress) and they used chemical weapons extensively.
Which, to be honest, isn't even that far from Assad's MO.

The managers have you drinking their Kool Ade

The US lost Syria, our lovely allies are jihadists, and Israel is aligned with the Saudis and the junta in Egypt

Quite plainly, if you are Shiite or in any way support the Shiites, we will attack you and try our feeble best to discredit you

[Pilarcraft]

well, I wouldn't know about Libya, but I know for a fact Iraq did use chemical weapons (mostly stuff they bought from Americans and Germans but I digress) and they used chemical weapons extensively.
Which, to be honest, isn't even that far from Assad's MO.

The managers have you drinking their Kool Ade

The US lost Syria, our lovely allies are jihadists, and Israel is aligned with the Saudis and the junta in Egypt

Quite plainly, if you are Shiite or in any way support the Shiites, we will attack you and try our feeble best to discredit you

I am aware of it, and knowing what the fuck Shi'a and Sunni are, do not give a rat's ass about it. And it is, kinda, totally irrelevant to my point. Iraq did use chemicals extensively, in its only major military operation, both against Iraqi civilians, Irani civilians, and Irani soldiers. I can forgive chemical use against Iranian soldiers, but I won't forgive chemical use against civilians, much less people of your own country..

[Camicon]

So now it looks like we are trying to smear Syria with the "OMG CHEMICAL WEAPONS!" scam we pulled in Iraq and Libya.

Just stop it already. The tired old ploy is tired and old

Except that Syria has been using chemical weapons in their civil war for a while now. So, you know, not really the same thing as Iraq or Lybia.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The managers have you drinking their Kool Ade

The US lost Syria, our lovely allies are jihadists, and Israel is aligned with the Saudis and the junta in Egypt

Quite plainly, if you are Shiite or in any way support the Shiites, we will attack you and try our feeble best to discredit you

I am aware of it, and knowing what the fuck Shi'a and Sunni are, do not give a rat's ass about it. And it is, kinda, totally irrelevant to my point. Iraq did use chemicals extensively, in its only major military operation, both against Iraqi civilians, Irani civilians, and Irani soldiers. I can forgive chemical use against Iranian soldiers, but I won't forgive chemical use against civilians, much less people of your own country..

>it's only major military operation
Anfal was absolutely not Iraq's only major military operations.

Also, Halabja was an anti-terror operation. Iraqi soldiers were being besieged in Halabja by a combination of Kurdish militants and Iranian soldiers.

[Pilarcraft]

I am aware of it, and knowing what the fuck Shi'a and Sunni are, do not give a rat's ass about it. And it is, kinda, totally irrelevant to my point. Iraq did use chemicals extensively, in its only major military operation, both against Iraqi civilians, Irani civilians, and Irani soldiers. I can forgive chemical use against Iranian soldiers, but I won't forgive chemical use against civilians, much less people of your own country..

>it's only major military operation
Anfal was absolutely not Iraq's only major military operations.

Also, Halabja was an anti-terror operation. Iraqi soldiers were being besieged in Halabja by a combination of Kurdish militants and Iranian soldiers.

I meant the Iran/Iraq war, but ok. also, nope. That's not what anti-terrorism means. and even if it actually was an anti-terror operation (which, considering the fact the two nations were officially at war, and up until then Iraq had been knees deep in Iranian soil), the law of proportions doesn't let anyone use WMDs against militias or civilians. that's like, the basis of international law of war.

[United Muscovite Nations]

>it's only major military operation
Anfal was absolutely not Iraq's only major military operations.

Also, Halabja was an anti-terror operation. Iraqi soldiers were being besieged in Halabja by a combination of Kurdish militants and Iranian soldiers.

I meant the Iran/Iraq war, but ok. also, nope. That's not what anti-terrorism means. and even if it actually was an anti-terror operation (which, considering the fact the two nations were officially at war, and up until then Iraq had been knees deep in Iranian soil), the law of proportions doesn't let anyone use WMDs against militias or civilians. that's like, the basis of international law of war.

Rebels have no protections under the Geneva Convention, because they aren't lawful combatants.

[Shofercia]

I think you're confusing the term "puppet regime" with the term "allied regime" - which is rather hilarious.

Syria and its army have become so reliant on Iran that its pedantic to call them an allied regime.

Does the Ayatollah secretly command Assad's elite units? You make a lot of claims, and provide no facts for said claims.

Are you still looking for WMDs in Iraq?

No and that's a tired metanarrative. Ba'athist dictatorships should be called by what their most silly armchair activist supporters refer to them as, just to highlight how crappy they are.

So your evidence for Assad using chemical evidence is "I really, really, really, like totally-really, think he did it!" Gotcha.

[Pilarcraft]

I meant the Iran/Iraq war, but ok. also, nope. That's not what anti-terrorism means. and even if it actually was an anti-terror operation (which, considering the fact the two nations were officially at war, and up until then Iraq had been knees deep in Iranian soil), the law of proportions doesn't let anyone use WMDs against militias or civilians. that's like, the basis of international law of war.

Rebels have no protections under the Geneva Convention, because they aren't lawful combatants.

but enemy combatants and enemy civilians do. which is what I'm talking about (the attacks on Kermanshah, Kurdistan and Azarbaijan), even though Halabja wouldn't officially be seen as a rebel activity either, in a court of law.

[Collatis]

ISIS Further Decimated by ‘Tide Pod Challenge’

Already reeling after losing nearly all its territory in clashes with Iraqi forces, ISIS has been dealt another blow after half the terror group’s soldiers died attempting the “Tide Pod Challenge.”

The devastation struck after a group of young jihadis were killing time on patrol in the town of Abu Kamel, Syria and came across a video issuing the challenge – to eat pods filled with Tide laundry detergent – on YouTube. Insisting that they were much braver than any Western millennials, they immediately purchased and consumed a pack of the laundry pods, dying hours later.

The group’s leadership believed it had the situation under control after it held an emergency seminar to educate its members of the dangers of the challenge. But they were soon hit by a second wave of deaths after a Kurdish agent posing as a Salafi preacher posted a video promising 72 virgins to anyone who dies attempting the Tide Pod Challenge.

“I don’t know how much more of this we can take,” ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi told The Mideast Beast. “This is even worse than when the CIA convinced my men to do the ammonium nitrate challenge for ALS research.”

[Major-Tom]

So now it looks like we are trying to smear Syria with the "OMG CHEMICAL WEAPONS!" scam we pulled in Iraq and Libya.

Just stop it already. The tired old ploy is tired and old

The Assad regime can't even cover up their continual use of chemical weapons. It's a disgrace. While I may be skeptical of having our government try to topple the Assad regime for a variety of reasons, it would be dishonest to deny the atrocities of the Assad regime.

[Durin VII]

Because an official alliance would require exactly that.

Oh and no, it won't be extended and the Russians, as a deployed force, won't be there to stay at all.

No, an official alliance would mean that the de facto situation is raised to alliance level, once control over certain lands is regained. Official alliance would simply mean announcing the de facto situation, as de jure. As for the Russians staying in Syria - yeah the Russians will stay at Tartus and Latakia.

Except that an official alliance does not equal the de facto situation.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

ISIS Further Decimated by ‘Tide Pod Challenge’

Already reeling after losing nearly all its territory in clashes with Iraqi forces, ISIS has been dealt another blow after half the terror group’s soldiers died attempting the “Tide Pod Challenge.”

The devastation struck after a group of young jihadis were killing time on patrol in the town of Abu Kamel, Syria and came across a video issuing the challenge – to eat pods filled with Tide laundry detergent – on YouTube. Insisting that they were much braver than any Western millennials, they immediately purchased and consumed a pack of the laundry pods, dying hours later.

The group’s leadership believed it had the situation under control after it held an emergency seminar to educate its members of the dangers of the challenge. But they were soon hit by a second wave of deaths after a Kurdish agent posing as a Salafi preacher posted a video promising 72 virgins to anyone who dies attempting the Tide Pod Challenge.

“I don’t know how much more of this we can take,” ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi told The Mideast Beast. “This is even worse than when the CIA convinced my men to do the ammonium nitrate challenge for ALS research.”

Is Mideast Beast an Onion-like site?

[Rangila]

ISIS Further Decimated by ‘Tide Pod Challenge’

Is Mideast Beast an Onion-like site?

what a stupid question

[Al-Ismailiyya]

Is Mideast Beast an Onion-like site?

what a stupid question

What makes it a stupid question? It's clearly satire and the Onion is satire.

[Rangila]

Americans reportedly hitting Syrian government forces with aerial strikes.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Americans reportedly hitting Syrian government forces with aerial strikes.

I wish the Russians would just shoot the Americans out of the sky tbh.

[Costa Fierro]

I find it funny that people use the chemical weapons line to support bombing Assad, as if chemical weapons are somehow morally worse than area-of-effect conventional weapons.

Chemical weapons are considered to be worse because of the effects they cause on people who don't have protection, which vary depending on which chemical weapon is used. Chemicals also have a high dispersal rate, and only a couple of warheads can kill thousands of people, as Saddam Hussein showed the world in the 1980's. The only conventional warhead that is considered to be on the same level as chemical warhead are thermobaric warheads. The kill mechanisms are the pressure wave and the vacuum created by the burning fuel sucking all the oxygen out of the air, which ruptures the lungs. Fuel which hasn't detonated can burn victims or be inhaled, leading to internal injuries. The fuels often used are also highly toxic and can be considered as lethal to personnel caught within the cloud as chemical warheads.

[Shofercia]

No, an official alliance would mean that the de facto situation is raised to alliance level, once control over certain lands is regained. Official alliance would simply mean announcing the de facto situation, as de jure. As for the Russians staying in Syria - yeah the Russians will stay at Tartus and Latakia.

Except that an official alliance does not equal the de facto situation.

The Russian Armed Forces are backing the Syrian Arab Armed Forces. The Russians are protecting the Syrians in the UN. The Russians are opening up trade with Syria. What more do you want, an engraved invitation?

So now it looks like we are trying to smear Syria with the "OMG CHEMICAL WEAPONS!" scam we pulled in Iraq and Libya.

Just stop it already. The tired old ploy is tired and old

The Assad regime can't even cover up their continual use of chemical weapons. It's a disgrace. While I may be skeptical of having our government try to topple the Assad regime for a variety of reasons, it would be dishonest to deny the atrocities of the Assad regime.

I don't think highly of Assad. But I've yet to see a better alternative. For instance, take a look at Lukashenko and Belarus, versus the "most free and most democratic" something of Ukraine. Where would you rather live? They started with the same GDP PPP per capita, and now Belarus is at $18,100 and Ukraine's at $8,300. I want all countries to have a leader like FDR. I do. But in same cases, it's just not feasible to coup, unless you have a plan of action for what happens after.

Almost every "Humanitarian Intervention" I've seen, ended up in shit. The worst country in terms of Human Rights Violations, (at least by my estimation,) Congo, is hardly ever mentioned. Here's a link from 2011: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 83102.html

The analysis, to be published in the American Journal of Public Health, shows that more than 400,000 women had been raped in Congo during a 12-month period between 2006 and 2007. That is 1,152 women raped every day, a rate equal to 48 per hour. Michelle Hindin, an associate professor at Johns Hopkins' Bloomberg School of Public Health, said the rate could be even higher.

But the country holds little strategic value, aside from its natural resources, which are exploited. Any sanctions against these companies? http://congoweek.org/pdf/congo_companies.pdf

Politicians only give lip service to Human Rights, and only implement Human Rights when it suits their needs, and/or their pockets. That's the reality we live in. If that wasn't the case, World Hunger would be a thing of the past: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/rel ... report/en/

815 million people now hungry – Millions of children at risk from malnutrition... After steadily declining for over a decade, global hunger is on the rise again, affecting 815 million people in 2016, or 11 per cent of the global population, says a new edition of the annual United Nations report on world food security and nutrition released today. At the same time, multiple forms of malnutrition are threatening the health of millions worldwide. The increase – 38 million more people than the previous year – is largely due to the proliferation of violent conflicts and climate-related shocks, according to The State of Food Security and Nutrition in the World 2017.