Church of England head says it 'colluded with' sex abuse

[Ifreann]

LONDON — The head of the Church of England has said the institution "colluded" with and helped to hide the long-term sexual abuse of young men by one of its former bishops.
Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, made the statement Thursday as the church published a review of how it handled the case of former bishop Peter Ball, who was convicted and imprisoned in 2015 after pleading guilty to offenses including two counts of indecent assault.

God help us ! I mean is this guy literally INSANE ?!? I can't overcome the picture it represents to me of the murder of innocence and trust. If I were that guy I's be praying my ass off and hoping against hope I wouldn't go to Hell.

Justin Welby has only been Archbishop of Canterbury since 2013. The collusion to which he is referring took place between the 1970s and 1990s. Welby wasn't even a priest until 1993.

Has this always been going on ?

I imagine there have been people abusing the power and social status of the clergy in various ways for as long as the clergy has had power and social status.

I can't imagine it ! Have centuries of priest molesting boys been going on and the Church kept it silent !?! If My child was molested I would have a notion to run into were there having services and set off a bomb that would kill everyone inside, including myself !

A frankly insane reaction.

Oh boy ! What do you think ? Do the majority of priests do this or not ?

Of course not.

I just can't wrap my mind around such a treacherous, hypocritical organization. May God, Wherever or Whomever he is get revenge...

Is this the first you've heard of this?

[Senkaku]

Justin Welby has only been Archbishop of Canterbury since 2013. The collusion to which he is referring took place between the 1970s and 1990s. Welby wasn't even a priest until 1993.

I imagine there have been people abusing the power and social status of the clergy in various ways for as long as the clergy has had power and social status.

A frankly insane reaction.

Of course not.

Is this the first you've heard of this?

No. But like most people, I have a tendency to think there moreal, ethical groups. If they are able to do this, then why don't I join the Scientologists or Church of Mammon ? Why don't I join a group of Christian Hookers, have three-way sex and blow my wad in the two woman's faces ? In other words, if they have the capacity to act immorally and without any concern for there concept of god, why shouldn't *I* ?

...because hopefully you're a better person than some two-bit pedo with a crucifix wearing a gilded bathrobe who molests his congregation?

[Ifreann]

Justin Welby has only been Archbishop of Canterbury since 2013. The collusion to which he is referring took place between the 1970s and 1990s. Welby wasn't even a priest until 1993.

I imagine there have been people abusing the power and social status of the clergy in various ways for as long as the clergy has had power and social status.

A frankly insane reaction.

Of course not.

Is this the first you've heard of this?

No. But like most people, I have a tendency to think there moreal, ethical groups. If they are able to do this, then why don't I join the Scientologists or Church of Mammon ?

Because the Scientologists are loons and there isn't any such thing as a Church of Mammon.

Why don't I join a group of Christian Hookers, have three-way sex and blow my wad in the two woman's faces ? In other words, if they have the capacity to act immorally and without any concern for there concept of god, why shouldn't *I* ?

I imagine a Christian would argue that while members of the clergy might escape the legal consequences for their actions, they cannot escape the judgement of God.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Some people are pretty damned awful. This is not news. And you reacting like nothing of the sort has ever happened in the history of mankind, and you must now act as if you have lost your ever-lovin mind on account is silly, accomplishes nothing, and makes you look somewhat foolish.

One man's actions do not set the standard for the whole, nor can the leadership guarantee the behavior of all. At least this Archbishop is being forthright, and stating for the record that his predecessors were out of line in supporting their abusive priest.

Could it have happened before? Entirely possible. Should it? Of course not. Does this mean all do the same sort of thing? No. Should leadership do all they can to prevent such things happening in the future? Absolutely. Should they be certain that in the event it does that they are not in any way supportive of, or responsible for the hiding of the crime or criminal? Damn skippy.

As for your last bit there, on should you use the excuse of 'well they did it' to condone your own actions?

Seriously, you can't possibly believe that holds any water, boyo. 'Why shouldn't I' tends to be fairly simple to answer: Because it isn't right, would harm another, would harm yourself, etc. They all work, depending on the situation.

Whaddya know - level-headedness and reason can get one through a number of gawdawful musings.

[Alvecia]

...because hopefully you're a better person than some two-bit pedo with a crucifix wearing a gilded bathrobe who molests his congregation?

Yeah, but you understand what I mean, right ? If people that are so much about "righteousness" can do something so evil and sick, why should we pay attention to the hypocrite ? W hy should we listen to any Church or believe the nonsense that spews out of there mouth like vomit ? Hell, why not start something fun. Like somewhere where all the nuns are prostitutes and will ritually "save you" by having sex ? Why not ?
That is, if al this is nonsense and a way to mask themselves of the evil they do, then let's blow the door off this. EVERYONE does evil...EVERYONE is immoral. Now that we have admitted it, why not forget this nonsense and go and do sinful, evil things ? Maybe rob a store and smoke crystal meth and sleep with a prostitute..

I mean, I'm no fan of religion by any stretch of the imagination, but it sounds like you're pointing to an anomalous result and saying "why shouldn't all results be like that?".

Because it's anomalous.

[Major-Tom]

It's almost as if large religious organizations, as well intentioned as many members and clergymen may be, have a shady side. I remember the Catholic Church when I was a kid.

We lived on the East Coast, and I am forever thankful that my mom was sketched out by our local priest enough to never bring us to our local parish. That priest turned out to be a pedophile, but instead of facing justice, he was relocated from Pennsylvania to Massachusetts.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Yeah, but you understand what I mean, right ? If people that are so much about "righteousness" can do something so evil and sick, why should we pay attention to the hypocrite ? W hy should we listen to any Church or believe the nonsense that spews out of there mouth like vomit ? Hell, why not start something fun. Like somewhere where all the nuns are prostitutes and will ritually "save you" by having sex ? Why not ?
That is, if al this is nonsense and a way to mask themselves of the evil they do, then let's blow the door off this. EVERYONE does evil...EVERYONE is immoral. Now that we have admitted it, why not forget this nonsense and go and do sinful, evil things ? Maybe rob a store and smoke crystal meth and sleep with a prostitute..

Look. You do what you want - we all do. You want to put a higher power in charge of your choices, go for it. You want to make them for yourself, all good. But using other people's poor choices or evil deeds as an excuse to do the same yourself is just plain crap. And cowardly, dare I add.

Choosing to rise above baseness, harm, evil if you want to call it that, is an active choice. You can attribute it to anything you like but what other people do or do not do has nothing to do with it. Nor should it. Say the priests all jumped off the nearest bridge - you gonna follow along just because they did it first? See how silly that sounds? Yeah. No bueno, boyo.

So there you go. People use religion for a number of things. My angle is that if it is helping you become the person you want to be, and assisting you in heading in a positive direction, there's no problem. Shouldn't matter if one, or even a handful out of hundreds of thousands in that religion has done something abhorrent, even if they were in a position of power or influence - if the overall message is a good one, clearly they weren't holding up their end of it, and ought to be held accountable for it. Doesn't change the message, only puts an ugly stain on the institution in the eyes of the public. Responsibility, accountability, all that you see. But again, none of that changes the message being taught - so long as that's a good one. The Archbishop here is stating that the message back then got a bit lost in translation, and leadership acted poorly when they found out one of their own was abusing his position. He's right in bringing that to light, and setting the record straight. And one hopes they'll not make the same poor choices going forward.

Hope some of this makes some sense to you, because you're spouting a lot of emotionally-based blather at the moment, seemingly. Understandable, but not very useful. Maybe if you take some time to settle a bit, then come back and read, respond as you like, the convo might go along a more intelligent path. *shrugs* Whatever floats yer boat.

I understand oyur reasoning. I really do. But there is a question I got to ask. Because everything we do usually needs an ethical or moral reason behind it, it stands to reason to question the Why of it. In other words, "Why do we even care about if it's moral/ethical or not " ? You probably can perceive a lot of things you are tempted to do on a daily basis. It pulls at you, promises to give you pleasure, to be pleasing and satisfactory. But, inevitably, you say no . Why do you say no ? That's my basic question. If everyone gave in to the things they desires to do, there would be no prisons. In fact, there would be no law. We would live a chaotic lifestyle punctuated by gunfights and mass stabbings.
In asking, I am also considering what makes a difference between us and psychopaths. If I described that kind of lifestyle, more than likely psychopaths would see that kind of life they want to live as stimulating and pleasant. But why would they ? And why wouldn't you ? That's what I am seeking.,

Why?

Because I choose not to. Yep, it really is as simple as that.

[Ifreann]

...because hopefully you're a better person than some two-bit pedo with a crucifix wearing a gilded bathrobe who molests his congregation?

Yeah, but you understand what I mean, right ? If people that are so much about "righteousness" can do something so evil and sick, why should we pay attention to the hypocrite ? W hy should we listen to any Church or believe the nonsense that spews out of there mouth like vomit ? Hell, why not start something fun. Like somewhere where all the nuns are prostitutes and will ritually "save you" by having sex ? Why not ?
That is, if al this is nonsense and a way to mask themselves of the evil they do,

But it's not.

It's patently absurd to think that all of Christianity was invented so that some priests could molest children, or do any other kind of evil, and get away with it.

[Thermodolia]

...because hopefully you're a better person than some two-bit pedo with a crucifix wearing a gilded bathrobe who molests his congregation?

Yeah, but you understand what I mean, right ? If people that are so much about "righteousness" can do something so evil and sick, why should we pay attention to the hypocrite ? W hy should we listen to any Church or believe the nonsense that spews out of there mouth like vomit ? Hell, why not start something fun. Like somewhere where all the nuns are prostitutes and will ritually "save you" by having sex ? Why not ?
That is, if al this is nonsense and a way to mask themselves of the evil they do, then let's blow the door off this. EVERYONE does evil...EVERYONE is immoral. Now that we have admitted it, why not forget this nonsense and go and do sinful, evil things ? Maybe rob a store and smoke crystal meth and sleep with a prostitute..

OP you need a blog

[Gauthier]

Catholic Church: "n00b"

At least it's out in the open.

[Thermodolia]

Yeah, but you understand what I mean, right ? If people that are so much about "righteousness" can do something so evil and sick, why should we pay attention to the hypocrite ? W hy should we listen to any Church or believe the nonsense that spews out of there mouth like vomit ? Hell, why not start something fun. Like somewhere where all the nuns are prostitutes and will ritually "save you" by having sex ? Why not ?
That is, if al this is nonsense and a way to mask themselves of the evil they do,

But it's not.

It's patently absurd to think that all of Christianity was invented so that some priests could molest children, or do any other kind of evil, and get away with it.

It's like all big organizations have bad people. I wonder if OP would go this nuts over the Boy Scouts pedophile scandal.

[Ifreann]

But it's not.

It's patently absurd to think that all of Christianity was invented so that some priests could molest children, or do any other kind of evil, and get away with it.

My feelings about the matter is I don't believe any "revealed" type of religion. Rather, I think people can understand God (broadly speaking) by using there own simple rationality and reason. The Founding Fathers were of the same faith called Deism.

That's...nice? I don't see what it has to do with my post but, you know, good for you or whatever.

[Thermodolia]

But it's not.

It's patently absurd to think that all of Christianity was invented so that some priests could molest children, or do any other kind of evil, and get away with it.

My feelings about the matter is I don't believe any "revealed" type of religion. Rather, I think people can understand God (broadly speaking) by using there own simple rationality and reason. The Founding Fathers were of the same faith called Deism.

Not all of the founding fathers where Deists some where but not all.

[Thermodolia]

It's like all big organizations have bad people. I wonder if OP would go this nuts over the Boy Scouts pedophile scandal.

Hold Up.... Who is writing this ? ME or You ? I seem to remember manipulating the keyboard to write this. So...I am writing this.

First.. I have made this as a broader discussion into why we do morality and why we do immorality. Because I suspect the reason why we do it is not for reasonable, rational reason. I suspect the reason I do them is because I have strong subconscious reasons leading me. In other words, all the reasons we can state are the tip of the iceberg. But where is the rest of the iceberg ? It's under water where you can't see it. Similarly, the true reasons why we do or don't do is hidden at a subconscious reason and is not noticeable to our conscious mind.
So what is the true reason ? I suspect it is the true reason for any addiction . You feel you got to, you MUST have it. You can't imagine life without it. SO to with the things you do over and over again. You are psychologically and (sometimes) physically dependent on them. You crave it, it eats away at you.
So that's the reason I suspect they do what they do .

Psychobabble aside, I didn't say anything about you writing anything. I just wondered if you would go this nuts over the Boy Scouts of America pedophile scandal as you are with the Church of England Scandal. Apparently you don't care about the former just the latter for some strange reason

[Herskerstad]

If My child was molested I would have a notion to run into were there having services and set off a bomb that would kill everyone inside, including myself !

Get help.

[Grand Britannia]

LONDON — The head of the Church of England has said the institution "colluded" with and helped to hide the long-term sexual abuse of young men by one of its former bishops.
Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, made the statement Thursday as the church published a review of how it handled the case of former bishop Peter Ball, who was convicted and imprisoned in 2015 after pleading guilty to offenses including two counts of indecent assault.

God help us ! I mean is this guy literally INSANE ?!? I can't overcome the picture it represents to me of the murder of innocence and trust. If I were that guy I's be praying my ass off and hoping against hope I wouldn't go to Hell. Has this always been going on ? I can't imagine it ! Have centuries of priest molesting boys been going on and the Church kept it silent !?! If My child was molested I would have a notion to run into were there having services and set off a bomb that would kill everyone inside, including myself ! Oh boy ! What do you think ? Do the majority of priests do this or not ? I just can't wrap my mind around such a treacherous, hypocritical organization. May God, Wherever or Whomever he is get revenge...

Stop it, get some help.

[The Lone Alliance]

Maybe OP should try Tumblr.

[Esternial]

LONDON — The head of the Church of England has said the institution "colluded" with and helped to hide the long-term sexual abuse of young men by one of its former bishops.
Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, made the statement Thursday as the church published a review of how it handled the case of former bishop Peter Ball, who was convicted and imprisoned in 2015 after pleading guilty to offenses including two counts of indecent assault.

God help us ! I mean is this guy literally INSANE ?!? I can't overcome the picture it represents to me of the murder of innocence and trust. If I were that guy I's be praying my ass off and hoping against hope I wouldn't go to Hell. Has this always been going on ? I can't imagine it ! Have centuries of priest molesting boys been going on and the Church kept it silent !?! If My child was molested I would have a notion to run into were there having services and set off a bomb that would kill everyone inside, including myself ! Oh boy ! What do you think ? Do the majority of priests do this or not ? I just can't wrap my mind around such a treacherous, hypocritical organization. May God, Wherever or Whomever he is get revenge...

For someone who says "God" a lot you seem oddly comfortable with the loss of innocent lives as collateral damage.

Hope you never have children.

[Genivaria]

Moral authority figures are still just as prone to immorality and corruption as the rest of us, to believe otherwise is horribly naive.
This isn't news to anyone.

[Neutraligon]

Moral authority figures are still just as prone to immorality and corruption as the rest of us, to believe otherwise is horribly naive.
This isn't news to anyone.

Although it is nice that the head of the church actually outright admitted to it. It took a newspaper for us to learn about the catholic version, and even then they didn't really admit to anything.

[Genivaria]

Moral authority figures are still just as prone to immorality and corruption as the rest of us, to believe otherwise is horribly naive.
This isn't news to anyone.

Although it is nice that the head of the church actually outright admitted to it. It took a newspaper for us to learn about the catholic version, and even then they didn't really admit to anything.

Church of England -1.
Catholic Church -100

[Internationalist Bastard]

Well that ruins the jokes, but I'm glad the church came out and admited to it

[Geilinor]

...because hopefully you're a better person than some two-bit pedo with a crucifix wearing a gilded bathrobe who molests his congregation?

Yeah, but you understand what I mean, right ? If people that are so much about "righteousness" can do something so evil and sick, why should we pay attention to the hypocrite ? W hy should we listen to any Church or believe the nonsense that spews out of there mouth like vomit ? Hell, why not start something fun. Like somewhere where all the nuns are prostitutes and will ritually "save you" by having sex ? Why not ?
That is, if al this is nonsense and a way to mask themselves of the evil they do, then let's blow the door off this. EVERYONE does evil...EVERYONE is immoral. Now that we have admitted it, why not forget this nonsense and go and do sinful, evil things ? Maybe rob a store and smoke crystal meth and sleep with a prostitute..

The Church isn't the only organization that says sex abuse is wrong.

[Giovenith]

Not to make light of the situation, but is this really the first time you've heard about clergy molesting children? Really? Reports of this stuff go back to the 15th century.

[Bombadil]

Certain institutions are attractive to pedophiles, they provide easy access to children, a propensity to hide the situation to protect reputation beyond a level of inherent trust. It would seem the Church is one of these to an extent, another is private schools.

That's not to say it's rampant in these institutions, just that they have aspects to it that make it easier to go unnoticed, or have the issue dealt with discretely as opposed to making it a public issue.