School Uniforms

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Dress codes are often lambasted for being "sexist," even though they're comparing different body parts and different physical symptoms of arousal, with no objective standard of how much of one corresponds to how much of the other. The only way for a school dress code to reduce distractions without being "sexist" is to make male and female students wear the exact same things.

If they're uncomfortable, push the school board to make them more comfortable. If they're too expensive, have students be issued uniforms. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Internationalist Bastard]

In one hand, sociology argument, on the other, I just like uniforms

[Ifreann]

Having uniforms can be a convenient way to ensure that all the pupils have sufficiently protective clothing. Obviously it's not much of a concern in our neck of the woods, but I've heard that in Australia the uniforms provide some UV protection, the better to allow the kids to go outside for lunch with less concerns about them all getting skin cancer later in life. Getting everyone to buy a uniform from the school and the school sourcing the right materials is easier than having the teachers check the tags on everyone's t-shirts before letting them go outside.

Heh, the funny thing is I had been wondering if here, they're not actually doing the exact opposite. Everytime I see teenage girls in the short skirts, with no tights but only kneehigh socks on them, in the winter rain here.
I remember talking to one of them once and was told that this particular school didn't allow the girls to wear trousers, and they had to choose between thin tights and the socks, but weren't allowed to wear both. So the choice was between cold legs and cold feet... No boots allowed, either. Just thin-soled shoes.

I imagine this is a function of the people in charge of the uniform policy coming from an era when they'd have been beaten for trying to write with their left hand.

"Cold legs? Bah! In my day if we complained of cold legs the nuns would have broken a ruler across them"

---

Having uniforms can be a convenient way to ensure that all the pupils have sufficiently protective clothing. Obviously it's not much of a concern in our neck of the woods, but I've heard that in Australia the uniforms provide some UV protection, the better to allow the kids to go outside for lunch with less concerns about them all getting skin cancer later in life. Getting everyone to buy a uniform from the school and the school sourcing the right materials is easier than having the teachers check the tags on everyone's t-shirts before letting them go outside.

I have heard of schools using uniforms as a method of generating income, as a downside to schools controlling where uniforms can be purchased.

Yeah, there's a lot of complaining here every August about parents not having any option to shop around for uniforms because the whole thing has to be bought from the school's supplier. Really something that should be regulated to stop the school gouging parents for money.

[Ifreann]

Dress codes are often lambasted for being "sexist," even though they're comparing different body parts and different physical symptoms of arousal, with no objective standard of how much of one corresponds to how much of the other.

...what?

Usually when I've seen people complaining about uniform dress codes being sexist it's centred on skirts. Either people don't like that girls are made to wear skirts with no option for trousers, or people don't like that girls get to choose between skirts and trousers and boys get no choice. Other than that I've seen people complain about sexist rules around jewellery or hairstyles.

The only way for a school dress code to reduce distractions without being "sexist" is to make male and female students wear the exact same things.

If the dress code rules were the same for all students then that wouldn't be sexist, yes.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Dress codes are often lambasted for being "sexist," even though they're comparing different body parts and different physical symptoms of arousal, with no objective standard of how much of one corresponds to how much of the other.

...what?

Usually when I've seen people complaining about uniform dress codes being sexist it's centred on skirts. Either people don't like that girls are made to wear skirts with no option for trousers, or people don't like that girls get to choose between skirts and trousers and boys get no choice. Other than that I've seen people complain about sexist rules around jewellery or hairstyles.

The only way for a school dress code to reduce distractions without being "sexist" is to make male and female students wear the exact same things.

If the dress code rules were the same for all students then that wouldn't be sexist, yes.

I was referring to the way dress codes in the absence of gender-neutral uniforms are labelled sexist.

[Esternial]

In my city they don't have uniforms, but some schools *do* have school colors. My ex was in one such school that had green as its color and, whenever they went buying clothes to wear to school, they would have to be green.

I distinctly recall her sister once being scolded for her piece of clothing not being "green enough". It was ridiculous.

I assume they wanted to avoid children hitting eachother on St. Patrick's day for not wearing green.

[Ifreann]

...what?

Usually when I've seen people complaining about uniform dress codes being sexist it's centred on skirts. Either people don't like that girls are made to wear skirts with no option for trousers, or people don't like that girls get to choose between skirts and trousers and boys get no choice. Other than that I've seen people complain about sexist rules around jewellery or hairstyles.

If the dress code rules were the same for all students then that wouldn't be sexist, yes.

I was referring to the way dress codes in the absence of gender-neutral uniforms are labelled sexist.

That really doesn't clarify why you are talking about different body parts and different physical symptoms of arousal.

[Godular]

The school I teach at has a uniform code, and I find it helps reduce or eliminate the chance of it being enforced inconsistently. Pretty much requires polo shirts with an undershirt, khaki pants or shorts that don't go above the knee, and shoes-that-aren't-flip-flops. The shirts can either be green, yellow, or white (school colors).

In all, it both helps keep kids on their best behavior both by limiting distractions and allowing the school to incentivize school participation by giving out relaxed dress-code passes for attending various events.

[Bressen]

School uniforms are absolutely fine (ensures that everyone on site is actually a student and brings everyone together in an equal sense of community), though in my current college the younger years have a lack of balance between male uniforms and female uniforms. Both sexes are able to wear polo shirts, jumpers, fleeces and trousers, but the girls get the added choice of wearing skirts. We used to have shorts for the boys during the summer, but now they're not allowed.

I don't particularly see this as sexist, however, and none of the boys really seem to care since summer in England rarely warrants shorts.

[The Emerald Legion]

What's wrong with uniforms?

[Nulla Bellum]

I think dress codes should be restricted to the military and for prisons. Never liked them. At work, I push the boundaries of "business casual" probably because I despised being told what to wear in school.

[Ifreann]

School uniforms are absolutely fine (ensures that everyone on site is actually a student and brings everyone together in an equal sense of community), though in my current college the younger years have a lack of balance between male uniforms and female uniforms. Both sexes are able to wear polo shirts, jumpers, fleeces and trousers, but the girls get the added choice of wearing skirts. We used to have shorts for the boys during the summer, but now they're not allowed.

I don't particularly see this as sexist, however, and none of the boys really seem to care since summer in England rarely warrants shorts.

This summer does.

[Bressen]

School uniforms are absolutely fine (ensures that everyone on site is actually a student and brings everyone together in an equal sense of community), though in my current college the younger years have a lack of balance between male uniforms and female uniforms. Both sexes are able to wear polo shirts, jumpers, fleeces and trousers, but the girls get the added choice of wearing skirts. We used to have shorts for the boys during the summer, but now they're not allowed.

I don't particularly see this as sexist, however, and none of the boys really seem to care since summer in England rarely warrants shorts.

This summer does.

And this summer is a very rare occurrence. But, even with that said, none of the boys have complained about not having shorts.

[Ifreann]

This summer does.

And this summer is a very rare occurrence. But, even with that said, none of the boys have complained about not having shorts.

Maybe they prefer skirts.

[Frank Zipper]

This summer does.

And this summer is a very rare occurrence. But, even with that said, none of the boys have complained about not having shorts.

Except they are, the link in the OP is about boys protesting about not being allowed to wear shorts.

[Bressen]

And this summer is a very rare occurrence. But, even with that said, none of the boys have complained about not having shorts.

Except they are, the link in the OP is about boys protesting about not being allowed to wear shorts.

I was specifically referring to the boys in my college.

[Giovenith]

I think their supposed benefits are wildly exaggerated. Clothes don't magically create less bullying, better grades, and more respect, staff being good at their jobs does. They give a superficial sense of sophistication due to media convincing us that "uniforms = great school," but really, there's nothing uniforms can accomplish that the school system getting its shit together can't (I invoke the ever-popular example of Finland). Personally, I also just think forcing children to all dress the same is gross and invasive of their autonomy (and no, it's not just like having a job uniform - you can choose your job, most kids can't choose their school).

[Thermodolia]

Hate them. Absolutely hate them

[Ifreann]

I think their supposed benefits are wildly exaggerated. Clothes don't magically create less bullying, better grades, and more respect, staff being good at their jobs does. They give a superficial sense of sophistication due to media convincing us that "uniforms = great school," but really, there's nothing uniforms can accomplish that the school system getting its shit together can't (I invoke the ever-popular example of Finland). Personally, I also just think forcing children to all dress the same is gross and invasive of their autonomy (and no, it's not just like having a job uniform - you can choose your job, most kids can't choose their school).

Most kids can't choose their clothes either.

[Engleberg]

Don't see the problem with school uniforms.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

I was referring to the way dress codes in the absence of gender-neutral uniforms are labelled sexist.

That really doesn't clarify why you are talking about different body parts and different physical symptoms of arousal.

They're what make "gender-neutral" in all dress-code-related contexts except giving everyone the same kind of uniform.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

We all know the real bottom line with uniforms is getting kids to think of themselves as one of the herd early on, adapt to being another carbon copy, another link in the chain, another brick in the wall, dare i say. Don't lets have individualism or independent expression lest we have problems with control down the line.

March right in, get in queue, uniforms on like good little cogs in the machine - now go do what you're told, think what you're expected to, and take your place in the ongoing effort to keep everyone in their places; the top supported, content, and free to continue coming up with new ways to extort, the middle angry, working, and laboring under the illusion that if they work hard enough they'll break that glass ceiling, the bottom downtrodden, desperate, and carrying the blame for most crime and 'wasted resources' and other 'problems with society' that keeps the whole thing churning...

No. Don't like uniforms, or severe dress codes, or unreasonable rules in schools, and think they're already so far off the rails in what they ought to be doing, what they ought to be teaching, and how they ought to be responding to and providing for the kids in their care that it just about makes me sick.

Grr. Argh. >_o

[Bressen]

We all know the real bottom line with uniforms is getting kids to think of themselves as one of the herd early on, adapt to being another carbon copy, another link in the chain, another brick in the wall, dare i say. Don't lets have individualism or independent expression lest we have problems with control down the line.

March right in, get in queue, uniforms on like good little cogs in the machine - now go do what you're told, think what you're expected to, and take your place in the ongoing effort to keep everyone in their places; the top supported, content, and free to continue coming up with new ways to extort, the middle angry, working, and laboring under the illusion that if they work hard enough they'll break that glass ceiling, the bottom downtrodden, desperate, and carrying the blame for most crime and 'wasted resources' and other 'problems with society' that keeps the whole thing churning...

No. Don't like uniforms, or severe dress codes, or unreasonable rules in schools, and think they're already so far off the rails in what they ought to be doing, what they ought to be teaching, and how they ought to be responding to and providing for the kids in their care that it just about makes me sick.

Grr. Argh. >_o

these kids are being forced to wear a certain object of clothing and therefore they are being oppressed

[Ifreann]

That really doesn't clarify why you are talking about different body parts and different physical symptoms of arousal.

They're what make "gender-neutral" in all dress-code-related contexts except giving everyone the same kind of uniform.

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

these kids are being forced to wear a certain object of clothing and therefore they are being oppressed

"Come and see the violence inherent in the system!"