School Uniforms

[Dylar]

I only had to wear them once, and it was terrible. They gave us a pair of khakis that had an elastic band in them, and a blue polo. And we were required to tuck the polo into our pants...so it looked downright ugly. Frankly, I find uniforms a waste of resources and labor.

[Alvecia]

I never minded wearing a uniform. Of course, I was never paying for them.

Really? Shit, we had to pay for ours.

My mum got round using their overly expensive store by buying cheap white shirts and a plain black blazer from BHS or something, then she ripped off the school logo from my old blazer and sewed it onto the new one.

[Ifreann]

I never minded wearing a uniform. Of course, I was never paying for them.

Really? Shit, we had to pay for ours.

We obviously they had to be paid for, but I personally wasn't doing it. Parents are useful things, from time to time.

My mum got round using their overly expensive store by buying cheap white shirts and a plain black blazer from BHS or something, then she ripped off the school logo from my old blazer and sewed it onto the new one.

I've heard it's becoming a thing now for schools to just sell the logos and let parents get shirts and jumpers and whatever from wherever they want as long as they're in the right colour.

[Alvecia]

Really? Shit, we had to pay for ours.

We obviously they had to be paid for, but I personally wasn't doing it. Parents are useful things, from time to time.

....ah.

My mum got round using their overly expensive store by buying cheap white shirts and a plain black blazer from BHS or something, then she ripped off the school logo from my old blazer and sewed it onto the new one.

I've heard it's becoming a thing now for schools to just sell the logos and let parents get shirts and jumpers and whatever from wherever they want as long as they're in the right colour.

That sounds pretty good. Wonder how much they charge for the logo.

[Forsher]

Uniforms can lead to greater social unity between comrade students and opens the path to a strong volksgemeinschaft.

Volksgenossen... national comrades.

I have made a minimum of 95 posts about school uniforms... I don't think there's anything left to say on the matter. I even think I have questioned the absence of shorts (the problem in the inspiring article).

On the other hand, whether our friend here just needed some better terminology or was making an edgy communists = Nazis post is much more intriguing.

jk I'm just too tired to make a proper critique of the dubious reasoning in the OP.

[A m e n r i a]

I never minded wearing a uniform. Of course, I was never paying for them.

---

It's a great idea, especially if different schools across a nation had different uniforms. They look nice and they give each school a unique identity. I mean, schoolgirls look 10000000 times cuter in their uniforms.

Tastes vary, obvs, but when you grow up wearing uniforms in school, they don't tend to hold much appeal.

---

Don't worry it's okay I balanced out the creepiness.

Truly you are the hero we deserve.

I live in a country where school uniforms are mandatory, yet I still find them appealing.

[Frank Zipper]

There is something deeply suspect, in my eyes, about any institution that makes people dress identically.

[The Blaatschapen]

There is something deeply suspect, in my eyes, about any institution that makes people dress identically.

Those green names of the posters here....

[Gaozu]

I went through my entire school life wearing a uniform. I'm from the UK, and even though I hated them when I was around 10/11, I think they're a good idea now.

1) They do little to nothing to discourage bullying. From what I'm observing, children are still being bullies for not having the right kind of glasses, the right kind of pens, the right kind of electronic toy, the right kind of uniform, even! Apparently, even within the uniform there are ways of making sure it looks more expensive, and children find out really quickly who has money and who doesn't.

How is this different to casual clothes?

2) They are an added expense, and a massive burden to the poorest families. Essentially, they are an entire set of outfits (2 or 3 pairs of trousers, skirts, shirts, jumpers, socks, blazers, ties and in some cases, shoes) that cannot really be worn anywhere else. So that's an extra €200+ every year (children do grow, after all), on top of the clothes you need to buy for them anyway.

Even the poorest in the UK can afford them. Normally the school will help, at least in my experience, if families are going through financial difficulties. And they're barely more expensive than casual clothes.

3) They seem to be across the board incredibly uncomfortable. Polyester pants and jumpers, itchy, never keeping you warm, but always making you sweat is what I hear from people I talk to. And they would have to be, because how else would you expect the poorer families to afford them?

What, so office wear isn't uncomfortable? Pajamas are comfortable, should kids go to school in those?

And finally 4) They seem to take up a lot of time for teachers and principals, in an effort to enforce them strictly. Of course, without enforcement, kids would not wear them, but is that really something we want the people who should be imparting knowledge to the next generation spending their time on?

They don't. Okay, maybe more so than casual clothes, but kids in the UK normally stick within the rules by themselves for the most part. Those that don't would cause difficulties in other ways besides, like becoming class distractions or something.

That's how I see it anyway. Even though I'm quite liberal, I think they're good at helping kids to understand in life you can't always just do or wear what you want (within reason, of course). I have no bad memories relating to my uniform, it's easy to decide what to wear in the morning. It's egalitarian and provides a sense of community within a school. They're not normally that expensive, and even though they may be a bit uncomfortable, they're just like the formal clothes most adults have to wear a lot of the time.

[Pasong Tirad]

2) They are an added expense, and a massive burden to the poorest families. Essentially, they are an entire set of outfits (2 or 3 pairs of trousers, skirts, shirts, jumpers, socks, blazers, ties and in some cases, shoes) that cannot really be worn anywhere else. So that's an extra €200+ every year (children do grow, after all), on top of the clothes you need to buy for them anyway.

There's an argument that the uniform is, in fact, pro-poor. Instead of worrying about what the kid is going to wear every day for the rest of the year, all the parent has to do is to wash the school uniform. A kid can survive with just two or three pairs for one or more school years - unless you can afford to buy a whole new set every year in which case good for you - especially when they're yet to have their growth spurt/if their growth spurt has ended.

[Frank Zipper]

There is something deeply suspect, in my eyes, about any institution that makes people dress identically.

Those green names of the posters here....

Indeed, damned agents of social control stealing my individuality.

[Ifreann]

Those green names of the posters here....

Indeed, damned agents of social control stealing my individuality.

Do not rock the boat, User 744460.

[Sinlenian Zindujan]

1) They do little to nothing to discourage bullying. From what I'm observing, children are still being bullies for not having the right kind of glasses, the right kind of pens, the right kind of electronic toy, the right kind of uniform, even! Apparently, even within the uniform there are ways of making sure it looks more expensive, and children find out really quickly who has money and who doesn't.

2) They are an added expense, and a massive burden to the poorest families. Essentially, they are an entire set of outfits (2 or 3 pairs of trousers, skirts, shirts, jumpers, socks, blazers, ties and in some cases, shoes) that cannot really be worn anywhere else. So that's an extra €200+ every year (children do grow, after all), on top of the clothes you need to buy for them anyway.

These two problems could be easily solved if the state will provide the uniform for all students for free. Like we've had before 1991.

[Frank Zipper]

Indeed, damned agents of social control stealing my individuality.

Do not rock the boat, User 744460.

I am not a number, I am a free man.

[Dylar]

Do not rock the boat, User 744460.

I am not a number, I am a free man.

That's what Fives said before he was shot...

[Frank Zipper]

I am not a number, I am a free man.

That's what Fives said before he was shot...

Shot by people in uniform no doubt.

[Skyhooked]

How is this different to casual clothes?

Almsot no difference, so why in the world waste labor, nerves and money on that?

Even the poorest in the UK can afford them. Normally the school will help, at least in my experience, if families are going through financial difficulties. And they're barely more expensive than casual clothes.

So it's a great idea to give em' that burden. Even if they can afford, additional expenses didn't do any good to anyone. Better let em' buy better food and let em' rent better place to live, rather than force them to waste resources on some colorful rag.

What, so office wear isn't uncomfortable? Pajamas are comfortable, should kids go to school in those?

Maybe yes, maybe no. Schools should focus on teaching and learning, not dresscode. What use of some student, who is all immaculate and formal, like a queen's guard, but can't even string two words together?

So they should be allowed to wear things they deem fit. Without some crazy excesses of course...

They don't. Okay, maybe more so than casual clothes, but kids in the UK normally stick within the rules by themselves for the most part. Those that don't would cause difficulties in other ways besides, like becoming class distractions or something.

Yeah, yeah, they are obedient folk, who are quieter than a mouse. But why not make their lives easier? And teacher's lives too? Even if other problems remain, that would be one thing to enforce less.

That's how I see it anyway. Even though I'm quite liberal, I think they're good at helping kids to understand in life you can't always just do or wear what you want (within reason, of course). I have no bad memories relating to my uniform, it's easy to decide what to wear in the morning. It's egalitarian and provides a sense of community within a school. They're not normally that expensive, and even though they may be a bit uncomfortable, they're just like the formal clothes most adults have to wear a lot of the time.

Waste time, resources just to prove kids, that they should know their place? Heck... oppressive. Real authority is earned through respect, not fancy formal clothing forced on everyone. Folk would just challenge those rules.

And... Egalitarian? Right to wear everything is egalitarian too in it's own sense. You know, equal opportunities and such... Also... North Korea is pretty much egalitarian too, but folk don't line up to move there. Know, what I mean?

As for sense of community... That's not the way it works. Sense of community is something more... inner. It's in heart and mind. For example: Imagine a collective, who are wearing same immaculate clothing without any question. But they bicker, bully eachother, betray on every ocassion and care only for themselves. What kind of sense of community is that?

I ain't some expert, that's just my opinion and thoughts.

[Cabra West]

I went through my entire school life wearing a uniform. I'm from the UK, and even though I hated them when I was around 10/11, I think they're a good idea now.

How is this different to casual clothes?

It isn't. That's my point. There is no big equalising effect in school uniforms, they're redundant.

Even the poorest in the UK can afford them. Normally the school will help, at least in my experience, if families are going through financial difficulties. And they're barely more expensive than casual clothes.

No, they're the same price, yet you need 2 sets of clothes for your child, where in most other countries 1 set will do. So in that alone, they're an extra expense. Seeing as there's no benefit to them, why force the parents to pay for that?

What, so office wear isn't uncomfortable? Pajamas are comfortable, should kids go to school in those?

Sitting in an office right now, wearing a pair of jeans, a top, a cardigan and sandals. Yesterday, it was leggins and a tunic. Very comfortable indeed.
You don't need to wear pyjamas to be comfy, but I do wonder if that fashion for wearing inappropriately comfortable clothes has something to do with people having clothing dictated to them during so much of their lives and don't develop a sense of what is appropriate when having to make decisions themselves?

They don't. Okay, maybe more so than casual clothes, but kids in the UK normally stick within the rules by themselves for the most part. Those that don't would cause difficulties in other ways besides, like becoming class distractions or something.

I had a friend who spent time in the south of England as au pair years ago - had unannounced sock checks. Teachers going round with a ruler making sure that both socks a child wore would stretch to the same length if pulled up. She had the children she was looking after sent home for socks that had shrunk to different length in the wash.
I don't think every school goes to such length, but still - why bother?

That's how I see it anyway. Even though I'm quite liberal, I think they're good at helping kids to understand in life you can't always just do or wear what you want (within reason, of course). I have no bad memories relating to my uniform, it's easy to decide what to wear in the morning. It's egalitarian and provides a sense of community within a school. They're not normally that expensive, and even though they may be a bit uncomfortable, they're just like the formal clothes most adults have to wear a lot of the time.

I just wonder if all that could not be achieved much easier? The only argument I've ever really heard FOR uniforms that does hold water is that it makes it easy to choose what to put on in the morning.
That that usually takes me all of 10 seconds to decide, but maybe others are less decisive.

[Cabra West]

2) They are an added expense, and a massive burden to the poorest families. Essentially, they are an entire set of outfits (2 or 3 pairs of trousers, skirts, shirts, jumpers, socks, blazers, ties and in some cases, shoes) that cannot really be worn anywhere else. So that's an extra €200+ every year (children do grow, after all), on top of the clothes you need to buy for them anyway.

There's an argument that the uniform is, in fact, pro-poor. Instead of worrying about what the kid is going to wear every day for the rest of the year, all the parent has to do is to wash the school uniform. A kid can survive with just two or three pairs for one or more school years - unless you can afford to buy a whole new set every year in which case good for you - especially when they're yet to have their growth spurt/if their growth spurt has ended.

Ok, maybe if we're talking children older than 16/17 years.
But primary school children? Teenagers? I remember 1 year where my mother had to get me new jeans nearly every other months because they grew too short.
In a school uniform situation, she'd also have had to buy the trousers on top of that... Or send me to school with absurdly small trousers.

[Olerand]

I'm for them. They encourage uniformity, diminish differences (as much as possible), and highlight sameness.

The financial burden can be lessened by the State. In France, needy families receive a subsidy at the beginning of the school year to be able to buy school material, and that subsidy can be enlarged to help offset the costs of the uniform if necessary.

[Pasong Tirad]

There's an argument that the uniform is, in fact, pro-poor. Instead of worrying about what the kid is going to wear every day for the rest of the year, all the parent has to do is to wash the school uniform. A kid can survive with just two or three pairs for one or more school years - unless you can afford to buy a whole new set every year in which case good for you - especially when they're yet to have their growth spurt/if their growth spurt has ended.

Ok, maybe if we're talking children older than 16/17 years.
But primary school children? Teenagers? I remember 1 year where my mother had to get me new jeans nearly every other months because they grew too short.
In a school uniform situation, she'd also have had to buy the trousers on top of that... Or send me to school with absurdly small trousers.

Yes, children. Right around that sweet spot before they hit puberty at 12. I remember going through grades 4 and 5 with the same pairs of pants (10-11 yrs old).

Context is also important, btw. Most Filipino schools (public or private) are able to subsidize at least part of the costs of a school uniform (the argument being that since they're the ones mandating that the kids wear this kind of uniform, they should be able to help pay for it - at least in part [at least that's what most schools do if they aren't corrupt]). Also Filipino kids don't really grow too big, so we don't usually buy another pair in the middle of the year.

[Ifreann]

I went through my entire school life wearing a uniform. I'm from the UK, and even though I hated them when I was around 10/11, I think they're a good idea now.

How is this different to casual clothes?

It isn't. That's my point. There is no big equalising effect in school uniforms, they're redundant.

Even the poorest in the UK can afford them. Normally the school will help, at least in my experience, if families are going through financial difficulties. And they're barely more expensive than casual clothes.

No, they're the same price, yet you need 2 sets of clothes for your child, where in most other countries 1 set will do. So in that alone, they're an extra expense. Seeing as there's no benefit to them, why force the parents to pay for that?

What, so office wear isn't uncomfortable? Pajamas are comfortable, should kids go to school in those?

Sitting in an office right now, wearing a pair of jeans, a top, a cardigan and sandals. Yesterday, it was leggins and a tunic. Very comfortable indeed.
You don't need to wear pyjamas to be comfy, but I do wonder if that fashion for wearing inappropriately comfortable clothes has something to do with people having clothing dictated to them during so much of their lives and don't develop a sense of what is appropriate when having to make decisions themselves?

They don't. Okay, maybe more so than casual clothes, but kids in the UK normally stick within the rules by themselves for the most part. Those that don't would cause difficulties in other ways besides, like becoming class distractions or something.

I had a friend who spent time in the south of England as au pair years ago - had unannounced sock checks. Teachers going round with a ruler making sure that both socks a child wore would stretch to the same length if pulled up. She had the children she was looking after sent home for socks that had shrunk to different length in the wash.
I don't think every school goes to such length, but still - why bother?

That's how I see it anyway. Even though I'm quite liberal, I think they're good at helping kids to understand in life you can't always just do or wear what you want (within reason, of course). I have no bad memories relating to my uniform, it's easy to decide what to wear in the morning. It's egalitarian and provides a sense of community within a school. They're not normally that expensive, and even though they may be a bit uncomfortable, they're just like the formal clothes most adults have to wear a lot of the time.

I just wonder if all that could not be achieved much easier? The only argument I've ever really heard FOR uniforms that does hold water is that it makes it easy to choose what to put on in the morning.
That that usually takes me all of 10 seconds to decide, but maybe others are less decisive.

Having uniforms can be a convenient way to ensure that all the pupils have sufficiently protective clothing. Obviously it's not much of a concern in our neck of the woods, but I've heard that in Australia the uniforms provide some UV protection, the better to allow the kids to go outside for lunch with less concerns about them all getting skin cancer later in life. Getting everyone to buy a uniform from the school and the school sourcing the right materials is easier than having the teachers check the tags on everyone's t-shirts before letting them go outside.

[Cabra West]

Having uniforms can be a convenient way to ensure that all the pupils have sufficiently protective clothing. Obviously it's not much of a concern in our neck of the woods, but I've heard that in Australia the uniforms provide some UV protection, the better to allow the kids to go outside for lunch with less concerns about them all getting skin cancer later in life. Getting everyone to buy a uniform from the school and the school sourcing the right materials is easier than having the teachers check the tags on everyone's t-shirts before letting them go outside.

Heh, the funny thing is I had been wondering if here, they're not actually doing the exact opposite. Everytime I see teenage girls in the short skirts, with no tights but only kneehigh socks on them, in the winter rain here.
I remember talking to one of them once and was told that this particular school didn't allow the girls to wear trousers, and they had to choose between thin tights and the socks, but weren't allowed to wear both. So the choice was between cold legs and cold feet... No boots allowed, either. Just thin-soled shoes.

[Frank Zipper]

Having uniforms can be a convenient way to ensure that all the pupils have sufficiently protective clothing. Obviously it's not much of a concern in our neck of the woods, but I've heard that in Australia the uniforms provide some UV protection, the better to allow the kids to go outside for lunch with less concerns about them all getting skin cancer later in life. Getting everyone to buy a uniform from the school and the school sourcing the right materials is easier than having the teachers check the tags on everyone's t-shirts before letting them go outside.

I have heard of schools using uniforms as a method of generating income, as a downside to schools controlling where uniforms can be purchased.

[Ohioan Territory]

Shouldn't be a requirement unless it is a private school. Prominent American high schools like Culver (Indiana) use uniforms to instill discipline and responsibility.

Edit: not saying private high schools should require uniforms, I'm saying they should have the option to. I don't think public schools should have uniforms at all.