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by Dylar » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:10 am
St. Albert the Great wrote:"Natural science does not consist in ratifying what others have said, but in seeking the causes of phenomena."
Franko Tildon wrote:Fire washes the skin off the bone and the sin off the soul. It cleans away the dirt. And my momma didn't raise herself no dirty boy.
by Alvecia » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:12 am
Ifreann wrote:I never minded wearing a uniform. Of course, I was never paying for them.
by Ifreann » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:19 am
My mum got round using their overly expensive store by buying cheap white shirts and a plain black blazer from BHS or something, then she ripped off the school logo from my old blazer and sewed it onto the new one.
by Alvecia » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:23 am
My mum got round using their overly expensive store by buying cheap white shirts and a plain black blazer from BHS or something, then she ripped off the school logo from my old blazer and sewed it onto the new one.
I've heard it's becoming a thing now for schools to just sell the logos and let parents get shirts and jumpers and whatever from wherever they want as long as they're in the right colour.
by Forsher » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:43 am
Vulgar Bulgar wrote:Uniforms can lead to greater social unity between comrade students and opens the path to a strong volksgemeinschaft.
by A m e n r i a » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:47 am
Ifreann wrote:I never minded wearing a uniform. Of course, I was never paying for them.A m e n r i a wrote:It's a great idea, especially if different schools across a nation had different uniforms. They look nice and they give each school a unique identity. I mean, schoolgirls look 10000000 times cuter in their uniforms.
Tastes vary, obvs, but when you grow up wearing uniforms in school, they don't tend to hold much appeal.Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Don't worry it's okay I balanced out the creepiness.
Truly you are the hero we deserve.
by Frank Zipper » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:48 am
by The Blaatschapen » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:53 am
Frank Zipper wrote:There is something deeply suspect, in my eyes, about any institution that makes people dress identically.
by Gaozu » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:54 am
Cabra West wrote:1) They do little to nothing to discourage bullying. From what I'm observing, children are still being bullies for not having the right kind of glasses, the right kind of pens, the right kind of electronic toy, the right kind of uniform, even! Apparently, even within the uniform there are ways of making sure it looks more expensive, and children find out really quickly who has money and who doesn't.
Cabra West wrote:2) They are an added expense, and a massive burden to the poorest families. Essentially, they are an entire set of outfits (2 or 3 pairs of trousers, skirts, shirts, jumpers, socks, blazers, ties and in some cases, shoes) that cannot really be worn anywhere else. So that's an extra €200+ every year (children do grow, after all), on top of the clothes you need to buy for them anyway.
Cabra West wrote:3) They seem to be across the board incredibly uncomfortable. Polyester pants and jumpers, itchy, never keeping you warm, but always making you sweat is what I hear from people I talk to. And they would have to be, because how else would you expect the poorer families to afford them?
Cabra West wrote:And finally 4) They seem to take up a lot of time for teachers and principals, in an effort to enforce them strictly. Of course, without enforcement, kids would not wear them, but is that really something we want the people who should be imparting knowledge to the next generation spending their time on?
by Pasong Tirad » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:55 am
Cabra West wrote:2) They are an added expense, and a massive burden to the poorest families. Essentially, they are an entire set of outfits (2 or 3 pairs of trousers, skirts, shirts, jumpers, socks, blazers, ties and in some cases, shoes) that cannot really be worn anywhere else. So that's an extra €200+ every year (children do grow, after all), on top of the clothes you need to buy for them anyway.
by Frank Zipper » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:55 am
by Sinlenian Zindujan » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:08 am
Cabra West wrote:1) They do little to nothing to discourage bullying. From what I'm observing, children are still being bullies for not having the right kind of glasses, the right kind of pens, the right kind of electronic toy, the right kind of uniform, even! Apparently, even within the uniform there are ways of making sure it looks more expensive, and children find out really quickly who has money and who doesn't.
2) They are an added expense, and a massive burden to the poorest families. Essentially, they are an entire set of outfits (2 or 3 pairs of trousers, skirts, shirts, jumpers, socks, blazers, ties and in some cases, shoes) that cannot really be worn anywhere else. So that's an extra €200+ every year (children do grow, after all), on top of the clothes you need to buy for them anyway.
by Frank Zipper » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:12 am
by Dylar » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:17 am
St. Albert the Great wrote:"Natural science does not consist in ratifying what others have said, but in seeking the causes of phenomena."
Franko Tildon wrote:Fire washes the skin off the bone and the sin off the soul. It cleans away the dirt. And my momma didn't raise herself no dirty boy.
by Frank Zipper » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:24 am
by Skyhooked » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:24 am
Gaozu wrote:How is this different to casual clothes?
Gaozu wrote:Even the poorest in the UK can afford them. Normally the school will help, at least in my experience, if families are going through financial difficulties. And they're barely more expensive than casual clothes.
Gaozu wrote:What, so office wear isn't uncomfortable? Pajamas are comfortable, should kids go to school in those?
Gaozu wrote:They don't. Okay, maybe more so than casual clothes, but kids in the UK normally stick within the rules by themselves for the most part. Those that don't would cause difficulties in other ways besides, like becoming class distractions or something.
Gaozu wrote:That's how I see it anyway. Even though I'm quite liberal, I think they're good at helping kids to understand in life you can't always just do or wear what you want (within reason, of course). I have no bad memories relating to my uniform, it's easy to decide what to wear in the morning. It's egalitarian and provides a sense of community within a school. They're not normally that expensive, and even though they may be a bit uncomfortable, they're just like the formal clothes most adults have to wear a lot of the time.
by Cabra West » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:29 am
Gaozu wrote:I went through my entire school life wearing a uniform. I'm from the UK, and even though I hated them when I was around 10/11, I think they're a good idea now.
How is this different to casual clothes?
Even the poorest in the UK can afford them. Normally the school will help, at least in my experience, if families are going through financial difficulties. And they're barely more expensive than casual clothes.
What, so office wear isn't uncomfortable? Pajamas are comfortable, should kids go to school in those?
They don't. Okay, maybe more so than casual clothes, but kids in the UK normally stick within the rules by themselves for the most part. Those that don't would cause difficulties in other ways besides, like becoming class distractions or something.
That's how I see it anyway. Even though I'm quite liberal, I think they're good at helping kids to understand in life you can't always just do or wear what you want (within reason, of course). I have no bad memories relating to my uniform, it's easy to decide what to wear in the morning. It's egalitarian and provides a sense of community within a school. They're not normally that expensive, and even though they may be a bit uncomfortable, they're just like the formal clothes most adults have to wear a lot of the time.
by Cabra West » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:33 am
Pasong Tirad wrote:Cabra West wrote:2) They are an added expense, and a massive burden to the poorest families. Essentially, they are an entire set of outfits (2 or 3 pairs of trousers, skirts, shirts, jumpers, socks, blazers, ties and in some cases, shoes) that cannot really be worn anywhere else. So that's an extra €200+ every year (children do grow, after all), on top of the clothes you need to buy for them anyway.
There's an argument that the uniform is, in fact, pro-poor. Instead of worrying about what the kid is going to wear every day for the rest of the year, all the parent has to do is to wash the school uniform. A kid can survive with just two or three pairs for one or more school years - unless you can afford to buy a whole new set every year in which case good for you - especially when they're yet to have their growth spurt/if their growth spurt has ended.
by Olerand » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:40 am
Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever
by Pasong Tirad » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:42 am
Cabra West wrote:Pasong Tirad wrote:There's an argument that the uniform is, in fact, pro-poor. Instead of worrying about what the kid is going to wear every day for the rest of the year, all the parent has to do is to wash the school uniform. A kid can survive with just two or three pairs for one or more school years - unless you can afford to buy a whole new set every year in which case good for you - especially when they're yet to have their growth spurt/if their growth spurt has ended.
Ok, maybe if we're talking children older than 16/17 years.
But primary school children? Teenagers? I remember 1 year where my mother had to get me new jeans nearly every other months because they grew too short.
In a school uniform situation, she'd also have had to buy the trousers on top of that... Or send me to school with absurdly small trousers.
by Ifreann » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:46 am
Cabra West wrote:Gaozu wrote:I went through my entire school life wearing a uniform. I'm from the UK, and even though I hated them when I was around 10/11, I think they're a good idea now.
How is this different to casual clothes?
It isn't. That's my point. There is no big equalising effect in school uniforms, they're redundant.Even the poorest in the UK can afford them. Normally the school will help, at least in my experience, if families are going through financial difficulties. And they're barely more expensive than casual clothes.
No, they're the same price, yet you need 2 sets of clothes for your child, where in most other countries 1 set will do. So in that alone, they're an extra expense. Seeing as there's no benefit to them, why force the parents to pay for that?What, so office wear isn't uncomfortable? Pajamas are comfortable, should kids go to school in those?
Sitting in an office right now, wearing a pair of jeans, a top, a cardigan and sandals. Yesterday, it was leggins and a tunic. Very comfortable indeed.
You don't need to wear pyjamas to be comfy, but I do wonder if that fashion for wearing inappropriately comfortable clothes has something to do with people having clothing dictated to them during so much of their lives and don't develop a sense of what is appropriate when having to make decisions themselves?They don't. Okay, maybe more so than casual clothes, but kids in the UK normally stick within the rules by themselves for the most part. Those that don't would cause difficulties in other ways besides, like becoming class distractions or something.
I had a friend who spent time in the south of England as au pair years ago - had unannounced sock checks. Teachers going round with a ruler making sure that both socks a child wore would stretch to the same length if pulled up. She had the children she was looking after sent home for socks that had shrunk to different length in the wash.
I don't think every school goes to such length, but still - why bother?That's how I see it anyway. Even though I'm quite liberal, I think they're good at helping kids to understand in life you can't always just do or wear what you want (within reason, of course). I have no bad memories relating to my uniform, it's easy to decide what to wear in the morning. It's egalitarian and provides a sense of community within a school. They're not normally that expensive, and even though they may be a bit uncomfortable, they're just like the formal clothes most adults have to wear a lot of the time.
I just wonder if all that could not be achieved much easier? The only argument I've ever really heard FOR uniforms that does hold water is that it makes it easy to choose what to put on in the morning.
That that usually takes me all of 10 seconds to decide, but maybe others are less decisive.
by Cabra West » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:51 am
Ifreann wrote:Having uniforms can be a convenient way to ensure that all the pupils have sufficiently protective clothing. Obviously it's not much of a concern in our neck of the woods, but I've heard that in Australia the uniforms provide some UV protection, the better to allow the kids to go outside for lunch with less concerns about them all getting skin cancer later in life. Getting everyone to buy a uniform from the school and the school sourcing the right materials is easier than having the teachers check the tags on everyone's t-shirts before letting them go outside.
by Frank Zipper » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:53 am
Ifreann wrote:Having uniforms can be a convenient way to ensure that all the pupils have sufficiently protective clothing. Obviously it's not much of a concern in our neck of the woods, but I've heard that in Australia the uniforms provide some UV protection, the better to allow the kids to go outside for lunch with less concerns about them all getting skin cancer later in life. Getting everyone to buy a uniform from the school and the school sourcing the right materials is easier than having the teachers check the tags on everyone's t-shirts before letting them go outside.
by Ohioan Territory » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:54 am
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