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Tolerable Dystopia

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Tokora
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Democratic Socialists

Tolerable Dystopia

Postby Tokora » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:34 am

Dystopias normally aren't supposed to fun. Dystopia (more or less) literally translates to "bad-place". However, when not trying to be as soul-crushing as possible a la "Nineteen Eighty-Four", it could be looked at as just another society where even if you have to live a little differently you can still live.

A good example would be Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World". As both religious and a communist, I find the society's consumerism, caste-system, rampant drug use, enforced hedonism, and the literal worship or corporations disgusting with it's only saving grace being the option to leave; there are people who want nothing but hedonism in their lives and I know there are people who won't see any problem with free drugs.

Here's the question. In your own opinion, what kind of society can you imagine that would for all intents and purposes be considered a dystopia to the average observer, but you on a personal level would be perfectly content with, and maybe even to an extent support, the regime in power despite the drawbacks.

For me, it would be Eco-totalitarianism. While being thrown into a reeducation camp would be harsh for leaving a wrapper on the sidewalk, I personally support environmentalism and would be willing to suck up the draconian regulations for the sake of still having a world to live in. I also thought about if I would be able to survive in a theocracy but due to how religion is constantly up to interpretation such a regime would be utterly unpredictable to the point where trusting one would literally be gambling with your life. So for me, I'm just leaving it at the general Eco-totalitarianism.

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:36 am

The current world.

Except Belgium. We're talking tolerable after all.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:38 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:The current world.

Except Belgium. We're talking tolerable after all.

Belgium is just a lie The Man invented to keep you in line!
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Catochristoferson
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Catochristoferson » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:40 am

"tolerable dystopia" is an oxymoron.
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Leuierepublic
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Ex-Nation

Postby Leuierepublic » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:40 am

Hmm well maybe the present day US.

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Arctica-Aleutia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Arctica-Aleutia » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:43 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:The current world.

Except Belgium. We're talking tolerable after all.

Belgium is just a lie The Man invented to keep you in line!

...

I swear, I will find whoever started that whole "Belgium does not exist" thing and smack them in the face with a pacific northwest tree octopus.

...

You may now continue having a productive conversation.
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Victoriala II
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Ex-Nation

Postby Victoriala II » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:45 am

if you count the silurian period a dystopia yes

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Tokora
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Tokora » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:49 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:The current world.

Except Belgium. We're talking tolerable after all.

I don't get it.

Catochristoferson wrote:"tolerable dystopia" is an oxymoron.

A government can be more lenient or even supportive in areas you care about with whats left being a huge problem to most people who aren't you, so it's still considered a dystopia to the average person. At least that's the way I see it.

Arctica-Aleutia wrote:I swear, I will find whoever started that whole "Belgium does not exist" thing and smack them in the face with a pacific northwest tree octopus.

It was probably started by a Dutch nationalist still ticked off over the two century old division.

Victoriala II wrote:if you count the silurian period a dystopia yes

Never heard of it.
Last edited by Tokora on Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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San Marlindo
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Postby San Marlindo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:57 am

Arctica-Aleutia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Belgium is just a lie The Man invented to keep you in line!

...

I swear, I will find whoever started that whole "Belgium does not exist" thing and smack them in the face with a pacific northwest tree octopus.

...

You may now continue having a productive conversation.


The Belgians themselves don't even believe Belgium exists.

When asked to sing the Belgian national anthem the prime minister sang la marseillaise instead.
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Engleberg
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Postby Engleberg » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:04 am

1984

*nods*

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Southeastern Xiatao
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Ex-Nation

Postby Southeastern Xiatao » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:10 am

Engleberg wrote:1984

*nods*

Big Brother will always be there for you.

And always watching you as you fap to porn.
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Pepsi Co
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Pepsi Co » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:13 am

I'd say a world run by corporations and consumerism according to what my friends keep telling me but personally I don't see how that would be dystopian in the first place.
Last edited by Pepsi Co on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Luziyca
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:51 am

When I saw the OP, I immediately thought of this video.

Honestly, I do not know. It all depends on what my lot in that dystopia is, and what the conditions are in each one of them.
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Tokora
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Tokora » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:08 am

Luziyca wrote:When I saw the OP, I immediately thought of this video.

Honestly, I do not know. It all depends on what my lot in that dystopia is, and what the conditions are in each one of them.

Nice video, I actually read Utopia a few years ago.

Anyone else?
Last edited by Tokora on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Upper-Africa
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Upper-Africa » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:11 am

Engleberg wrote:1984

*nods*

Big Brother will always be there for you.

Seconded. Big Brother's not so bad once you get to know him.

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Benuty
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:52 am

The Republic of Gilead would be tolerable since it definitely collapses by the books ends anyway. In fact there is a whole thing in the end where they debate whether or not it even existed as described.
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San Bolsapaja
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Ex-Nation

Postby San Bolsapaja » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:00 am

Upper-Africa wrote:
Engleberg wrote:1984

*nods*

Big Brother will always be there for you.

Seconded. Big Brother's not so bad once you get to know him.

You will love him. Eventually.

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The Islands of Versilia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Islands of Versilia » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:04 am

An Atheist, Socialist, Eco-minded Celtic revival state.
That would be okay with me.

A Science-focused military technocracy would also be okay.
Last edited by The Islands of Versilia on Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Benuty
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:07 am

San Bolsapaja wrote:
Upper-Africa wrote:Seconded. Big Brother's not so bad once you get to know him.

You will love him. Eventually.

Then be executed as a traitor during hate week of all things.
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Kanadorika
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Postby Kanadorika » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:13 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:The current world.

Except Belgium. We're talking tolerable after all.

Belgium is just a lie The Man invented to keep you in line!

*Laughs in Schlieffen Plan*
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The Greater Siriusian Domain
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Siriusian Domain » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:25 am

For me, such a society already exists in fiction... it's called the "Tau Empire". They're extremely authoritarian with a Caste system based on the different subspecies of their people (with subject races essentially treated as their own castes as well) and their economic system leaves little room for personal choice in career (although this is less of an issue for subject races and more for the Tau themselves). All of these things are an anathema to me. Yet I admire their drive for progress, their openness to others, and their ability to hold onto hope in one of the bleakest grimdark settings ever. Because of that, I would be willing to tolerate living there.

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Arctica-Aleutia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Arctica-Aleutia » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 am

I probably wouldn't be able to handle any sort of dystopia. I'm just a bit too much of a rebel.
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Engleberg
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Ex-Nation

Postby Engleberg » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:27 am

The Islands of Versilia wrote:An Atheist, Socialist, Eco-minded Celtic revival state.
That would be okay with me.

A Science-focused military technocracy would also be okay.


The first part of your post is physically painful.
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Trotskylvania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:27 am

Tokora wrote:Dystopias normally aren't supposed to fun. Dystopia (more or less) literally translates to "bad-place". However, when not trying to be as soul-crushing as possible a la "Nineteen Eighty-Four", it could be looked at as just another society where even if you have to live a little differently you can still live.

A good example would be Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World". As both religious and a communist, I find the society's consumerism, caste-system, rampant drug use, enforced hedonism, and the literal worship or corporations disgusting with it's only saving grace being the option to leave; there are people who want nothing but hedonism in their lives and I know there are people who won't see any problem with free drugs.

Here's the question. In your own opinion, what kind of society can you imagine that would for all intents and purposes be considered a dystopia to the average observer, but you on a personal level would be perfectly content with, and maybe even to an extent support, the regime in power despite the drawbacks.

For me, it would be Eco-totalitarianism. While being thrown into a reeducation camp would be harsh for leaving a wrapper on the sidewalk, I personally support environmentalism and would be willing to suck up the draconian regulations for the sake of still having a world to live in. I also thought about if I would be able to survive in a theocracy but due to how religion is constantly up to interpretation such a regime would be utterly unpredictable to the point where trusting one would literally be gambling with your life. So for me, I'm just leaving it at the general Eco-totalitarianism.

Tolerable dystopia is inherently contradictory.

The World State from Brave New World is not a dystopia, and the author quite consciously shunned this concept. He preferred the concept of a "negative utopia", a society that is a good idea gone wrong, compared to the go-to dystopia like Oceania in 1984, which is a bad idea gone horribly right.

The World State is horrifying because it chooses the quickest route towards maintaining hedonist utilitarianism. It maims people prenatally to divide them into castes based on intelligence. The brute labor of civilization is done by those who aren't intelligent enough to be really susceptible to ennui or other intellectual maladies. It works everyone just enough so they won't become bored, and gives them just enough leisure time to keep them sated. It's also pretty much obliterated the concept of art, because art and suffering are believed to go hand in hand.

Brave New World is a world where people's animal needs are met at the expense of their human needs. Alphas like the decoy protagonist Bernard Marx are kept busy with the work of administrating the state, and those that are disaffected get exiled to remote Islands, and have to deal with living in a society consisting only of people who'd been cultured into being genius egomaniacs.
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Werftkrieg
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Ex-Nation

Postby Werftkrieg » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:29 am

The Third Reich. The New Order established by said reich. A corporatist dictatorship. The sort of world envisioned in Shodowrun.
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