[Abortion][REVISED POLL] If you had the power...

[United Muscovite Nations]

These are literally Kangaroo processes over women miscarrying you guys are advocating here.

A problem with corruption. We have many people who are falsely accused of crimes who serve sentences, does that mean we should not prosecute people who commit crimes?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

These are literally Kangaroo processes over women miscarrying you guys are advocating here.

in rightist el salvador, and who?

So, using that definition, using the morning after pill would be murder too, even though at that stage (less than 24 hours after conception) the number of cells forming the embryo is minuscule. Other forms of conception would be murder too, using your definition, including IUD (the coil).

Yes, it is. Anything that destroys an embryo kills a human being.

I don't think that leaves any room for doubt.

[Katganistan]

Well let's see what it does say in the Bible.
It says you can sell your daughter into slavery. (Exodus 21:7)
It says you can kill your children for being rebellious (Deuteronomy 21:18–21)
It says you can kill your neighbor for working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
It advocates killing babies on rocks (Psalm 137:9)
It features praying that God will cause abortions -- (so why should He have a problem with it?) (Hosea 9:14)
Or how about Numbers 5:11-21 where it tells about how to get a priest to cause an abortion?
In Exodus 21:22-25, if a pregnant woman is killed, her attacker must die (an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life). But if she miscarries, it's only a fine as it's NOT a person but a property loss.


Do you REALLY want to use the Bible as justification against abortion?

What about the new testament?

What about it? People are fine and dandy with quoting Leviticus when they want to say that the Bible proscribes homosexuality. Even were that not so, last I looked, Old Testament and New Testament are bound together to create a whole that is called the Bible.

Besides, Matthew 5:17 is pretty clear: Jesus says "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

So which is it? Does it count or doesn't it?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Still just a collection of cells and tissues, according to the secular viewpoint.

Falso!

Actual people who have been born are clumps of differentiated cells, whereas fetuses for the most part are clumps of stem cells which have no real purpose other then to reproduce. I see where your having trouble with this, you just need to study biology.

Stem cells become differentiated cells.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

But preventing further development of a small gathering of cells is?

"Killing a fetus isn't murder, it's just a clump of cells" says slightly more complex clump of cells.

Slightly my arse. Don't be silly here. There are points at which it is just a gathering of cells dividing and such, and at such a point is not actually called an 'embryo'. Actually, iirc, its a 'blastocyst' and not organized into anything remotely recognizable as a 'baby' or 'embryo'. That takes some time and doing.

Bear in mind, this little camper is not, in fact, an abortion supporter. But damned if I like seeing pithy commentary bereft of scientific fact, OR rational thought. Nevermind the relative absence of concern for already living, breathing, thinking, human beings who may be in situations that are not particularly conducive to carrying out a full-term pregnancy.

Personally, would not want to deal with explaining things on the other side were I a person, as so many seem to think makes up the majority of abortion participants, who did it 'on a lark' or 'just couldn't be arsed'. Have a feeling that a lot of this is quite over our heads, and better left between the woman and her maker, without someone mansplaining how this all works, why it is or isn't ok, and a government meddling in the lot of it. As said repeatedly, God does not need you or anyone else intervening on His behalf. And for those who don't believe in said higher power - doesn't really matter then, does it? Still applicable.

This is an awful, ugly argument where there really are no winners, save those few sitting on the sidelines gleefully rubbing their hands at the possibility of holding control or power over others, or pushing their agenda to the point of doing so.

[The of Japan]

if it is a felony, it should be for the doctors, not the would-be mother

Really you think the mother should walk free. Btw it was in the UK and she got 8 years

yes, just make the doctors not want to perform it, and it wont be a problem, and you are not jailing women seeking abortion.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Falso!

Actual people who have been born are clumps of differentiated cells, whereas fetuses for the most part are clumps of stem cells which have no real purpose other then to reproduce. I see where your having trouble with this, you just need to study biology.

Stem cells become differentiated cells.

So am I killing embryos when the stem cells in my skin falls off?

[The of Japan]

What about the new testament?

What about it? People are fine and dandy with quoting Leviticus when they want to say that the Bible proscribes homosexuality. Even were that not so, last I looked, Old Testament and New Testament are bound together to create a whole that is called the Bible.

Besides, Matthew 5:17 is pretty clear: Jesus says "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

So which is it? Does it count or doesn't it?

im not trying to use the bible to prove anything, i was just asking.

[New haven america]

Falso!

Actual people who have been born are clumps of differentiated cells, whereas fetuses for the most part are clumps of stem cells which have no real purpose other then to reproduce. I see where your having trouble with this, you just need to study biology.

Stem cells become differentiated cells.

But they're not differentiated cells, are they?

No, they're not.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Stem cells become differentiated cells.

So am I killing embryos when the stem cells in my skin falls off?

Would those stem cells develop into a recognizeable baby if left to develop? No, then obviously not.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

So am I killing embryos when the stem cells in my skin falls off?

Would those stem cells develop into a recognizeable baby if left to develop? No, then obviously not.

Not with today's science, but soon enough.

[VoVoDoCo]

There's nothing wrong with trapping an opponent with their own logic.

There is when its litterally not possible to be in that situation now that I have answered your fake question you can answer my real question that has actually happened. Do you think last week abortions AKA week 36 should a felony or should it be legal? I can show you the link again if you need me to.

Why is the fact that a situation hasn't happened mean that it's wrong to talk about your hypothetical response to it?

And we've been through this:

• Rape Pregnancy's are more common. Yet you say that rape pregnancy's don't happen enough to influence policy.
• The late term abortions you're referring don'thappen unless the mother's life is in danger.

[New haven america]

So am I killing embryos when the stem cells in my skin falls off?

Would those stem cells develop into a recognizeable baby if left to develop? No, then obviously not.

Actually, since they have sufficient DNA, you could create an embryonic cell, or hell, even clone them to make another Austria-Bohemia, so yeah...

How's it feel to be backed into a corner?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Would those stem cells develop into a recognizeable baby if left to develop? No, then obviously not.

Not with today's science, but soon enough.

>we could turn skin stem cells into embryonic stem cells
Which means they aren't embryonic stem cells.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Would those stem cells develop into a recognizeable baby if left to develop? No, then obviously not.

Actually, since they have sufficient DNA, you could clone them to make another Austria-Bohemia, so yeah...

How's it feel to be backed into a corner?

Scientists have actually turned skin stem cells into embryonic ones, so... is this "mass abortionism"?

[Katganistan]

No they don't. That's why it's legal to put them up for adoption.

And what if there is no social organization to take the children? Adoption is entirely dependent on the benevolence of other people and society.

Which is why there are 428,000 kids currently in foster care, and roughly 20-26k kids will age out of foster care.

Not to mention the kids who are abused and even killed in foster care.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Would those stem cells develop into a recognizeable baby if left to develop? No, then obviously not.

Actually, since they have sufficient DNA, you could clone them to make another Austria-Bohemia, so yeah...

How's it feel to be backed into a corner?

I'm not, because you guys are using arguments that literally don't happen. It's like saying that I'm crazy for thinking that a man giving birth is wrong. It doesn't really matter because it's not something that actually happens.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Not with today's science, but soon enough.

>we could turn skin stem cells into embryonic stem cells
Which means they aren't embryonic stem cells.

sumthing sumthing about walking and quacking like a duck. Since life begins at conception these days, a singular embryonic stem cell = an embryo = a baby.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Actually, since they have sufficient DNA, you could clone them to make another Austria-Bohemia, so yeah...

How's it feel to be backed into a corner?

Scientists have actually turned skin stem cells into embryonic ones, so... is this "mass abortionism"?

If these cells would be able to develop into a full-fledged human being, then yes.

[New haven america]

Actually, since they have sufficient DNA, you could clone them to make another Austria-Bohemia, so yeah...

How's it feel to be backed into a corner?

I'm not, because you guys are using arguments that literally don't happen. It's like saying that I'm crazy for thinking that a man giving birth is wrong. It doesn't really matter because it's not something that actually happens.

ehehehehehe.

[United Muscovite Nations]

And what if there is no social organization to take the children? Adoption is entirely dependent on the benevolence of other people and society.

Which is why there are 428,000 kids currently in foster care, and roughly 20-26k kids will age out of foster care.

Not to mention the kids who are abused and even killed in foster care.

I don't see how this hurts my point.

[New haven america]

Actually, since they have sufficient DNA, you could clone them to make another Austria-Bohemia, so yeah...

How's it feel to be backed into a corner?

Scientists have actually turned skin stem cells into embryonic ones, so... is this "mass abortionism"?

I'd say it is.

[Katganistan]

You dodged the question. Should the government force her to?

It would be murder for her to allow her son to die, if that's what you mean.

It wouldn't. You are not forced to give someone a kidney, no matter who they are. Even if it will kill them not to get it, you are not compelled to do it.

I might share a rare blood type with you, one that only one in three billion people have, and if you need a bone marrow transplant to live, I still would not be compelled to give it to you.

You cannot force someone to give up part of their body, or give it to another to use, against their will.

[New Portucalia]

Actually, since they have sufficient DNA, you could clone them to make another Austria-Bohemia, so yeah...

How's it feel to be backed into a corner?

I'm not, because you guys are using arguments that literally don't happen. It's like saying that I'm crazy for thinking that a man giving birth is wrong. It doesn't really matter because it's not something that actually happens.

Except for the fact that it does happen.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I'm not, because you guys are using arguments that literally don't happen. It's like saying that I'm crazy for thinking that a man giving birth is wrong. It doesn't really matter because it's not something that actually happens.

ehehehehehe.

Nowhere in there does it have a documented case of a male getting pregnant or giving birth.