[Abortion][REVISED POLL] If you had the power...

[Alvecia]

If the woman in question is making the tough decision of going through an abortion procedure, its justified. What isnt justified is making a woman forcably follow through with an unwanted pregnancy just so the baby can be used as punishment to the mother, end up being taken care of by a parent most likely incapable of providing adequate care, or being dumped on the atrocious system. Thats what is annoying about many pro life views, they care up until the fetus is popped out, and then give fuck all after that.

If you look at it from the pro life point if view, it's murder. And idk about you, but deciding whether to murder my child would be a tough decision as well.

Most abortions take place so early that calling it a child is pretty disingenuous. And calling it murder is like calling masturbation murder cause I kill all those sperm cells.

[Rhionnia]

If the woman in question is making the tough decision of going through an abortion procedure, its justified. What isnt justified is making a woman forcably follow through with an unwanted pregnancy just so the baby can be used as punishment to the mother, end up being taken care of by a parent most likely incapable of providing adequate care, or being dumped on the atrocious system. Thats what is annoying about many pro life views, they care up until the fetus is popped out, and then give fuck all after that.

If you look at it from the pro life point if view, it's murder. And idk about you, but deciding whether to murder my child would be a tough decision as well.

It is not murder, especially not by the legal definition. And I just said decided to follow through with an abortion is a tough decision.

[Ventlimer]

If you look at it from the pro life point if view, it's murder. And idk about you, but deciding whether to murder my child would be a tough decision as well.

It is not murder, especially not by the legal definition. And I just said decided to follow through with an abortion is a tough decision.

Morally, it is as you are murdering what will, without complications become a human in only 9 months. Sperm and egg don't count as neither will become a human without fertilization. Legally, you're right. Morally, I think you're wrong.

[Alvecia]

It is not murder, especially not by the legal definition. And I just said decided to follow through with an abortion is a tough decision.

Morally, it is as you are murdering what will, without complications become a human in only 9 months. Sperm and egg don't count as neither will become a human without fertilization. Legally, you're right. Morally, I think you're wrong.

Why is fertilisation so important? Eggs and sperm still have the potential to create a kid.

[Ventlimer]

If you look at it from the pro life point if view, it's murder. And idk about you, but deciding whether to murder my child would be a tough decision as well.

Most abortions take place so early that calling it a child is pretty disingenuous. And calling it murder is like calling masturbation murder cause I kill all those sperm cells.

Sperm doesn't count as it will not become a human until it fertilized an egg. And why does the appearance of the kid make a difference? Is it still going to be human? Then it's murder.

[Ventlimer]

Morally, it is as you are murdering what will, without complications become a human in only 9 months. Sperm and egg don't count as neither will become a human without fertilization. Legally, you're right. Morally, I think you're wrong.

Why is fertilisation so important? Eggs and sperm still have the potential to create a kid.

Because without fertilization, they are not alive and will not ever become human. A zygote will.

[Alvecia]

Most abortions take place so early that calling it a child is pretty disingenuous. And calling it murder is like calling masturbation murder cause I kill all those sperm cells.

Sperm doesn't count as it will not become a human until it fertilized an egg. And why does the appearance of the kid make a difference? Is it still going to be human? Then it's murder.

Technically eggs and sperm are human. They can also become human. I don't see the difference between them and a fertilised egg.

Why is fertilisation so important? Eggs and sperm still have the potential to create a kid.

Because without fertilization, they are not alive and will not ever become human. A zygote will.

They are alive, technically. And they will become human, potentially.

[Ventlimer]

Sperm doesn't count as it will not become a human until it fertilized an egg. And why does the appearance of the kid make a difference? Is it still going to be human? Then it's murder.

Technically eggs and sperm are human. They can also become human. I don't see the difference between them and a fertilised egg.

Because without fertilization, they are not alive and will not ever become human. A zygote will.

They are alive, technically. And they will become human, potentially.

No, they are not even close. They are carriers which cannot reproduce on their own, react to stimuli, or consume or convert energy. They are a product of your body like sweat or poop. Once it's fertilized it is alive and forming a human.

Edit: I am wrong. Sperm is a single called organism. However, I stand by the fact that it has not fertilized an egg and therefore cannot, in its own, become a human.

[Alvecia]

Technically eggs and sperm are human. They can also become human. I don't see the difference between them and a fertilised egg.

They are alive, technically. And they will become human, potentially.

No, they are not even close. They are carriers which cannot reproduce on their own, react to stimuli, or consume or convert energy. They are a product of your body like sweat or poop. Once it's fertilized it is alive and forming a human.

A zygote cannot react to stimuli either.
Arguably sperm cells consume and convert energy, it's what powers their tails.
Everything from the sperm and egg to a fully formed human is a product of your body.
Sperm and eggs are alive.
A fertilised egg is kind of on the same page as sperm and eggs Re: needing something else. It can't survive without being embedded in a womb

[Ifreann]

Technically eggs and sperm are human. They can also become human. I don't see the difference between them and a fertilised egg.

They are alive, technically. And they will become human, potentially.

No, they are not even close. They are carriers which cannot reproduce on their own, react to stimuli, or consume or convert energy. They are a product of your body like sweat or poop. Once it's fertilized it is alive and forming a human.

Edit: I am wrong. Sperm is a single called organism. However, I stand by the fact that it has not fertilized an egg and therefore cannot, in its own, become a human.

Neither can a zygote.

[Rhionnia]

It is not murder, especially not by the legal definition. And I just said decided to follow through with an abortion is a tough decision.

Morally, it is as you are murdering what will, without complications become a human in only 9 months. Sperm and egg don't count as neither will become a human without fertilization. Legally, you're right. Morally, I think you're wrong.

What does potential mean? Who cares what the potential is? It isnt a human, so, whats the fuss exactly? And subjective morality really doesnt mean much when we are talking about the legality of abortion. Or it shouldnt, anyway.

[The Emerald Legion]

I would sterilize everyone. Test tube babies with nought but the finest of genes. Raised by the government.

This is the proper way of doing things.

[Esternial]

Technically eggs and sperm are human. They can also become human. I don't see the difference between them and a fertilised egg.

They are alive, technically. And they will become human, potentially.

No, they are not even close. They are carriers which cannot reproduce on their own, react to stimuli, or consume or convert energy. They are a product of your body like sweat or poop. Once it's fertilized it is alive and forming a human.

Edit: I am wrong. Sperm is a single called organism. However, I stand by the fact that it has not fertilized an egg and therefore cannot, in its own, become a human.

Your lack of understanding of basic biology is painful if you consider oocytes and spermatozoids "like sweat or poop"

There are nuances between the two categories that are relevant which you fail to grasp or were never taught. First and foremost: the first two are cells. Sweat and poop are an amalgam of things such as liquid compounds, byproducts from metabolism and microorganisms.

Secondly, there are THOUSANDS of organisms that reproduce without fertilization that are considered "life".

Thirdly, sperm does not fit the definition for "organism".

[Dylar]

No, they are not even close. They are carriers which cannot reproduce on their own, react to stimuli, or consume or convert energy. They are a product of your body like sweat or poop. Once it's fertilized it is alive and forming a human.

A zygote cannot react to stimuli either.
Arguably sperm cells consume and convert energy, it's what powers their tails.
Everything from the sperm and egg to a fully formed human is a product of your body.
Sperm and eggs are alive.
A fertilised egg is kind of on the same page as sperm and eggs Re: needing something else. It can't survive without being embedded in a womb

A 3-year-old boy can't survive on his own. He needs a guardian to protect him and provide for him.

[Dylar]

Morally, it is as you are murdering what will, without complications become a human in only 9 months. Sperm and egg don't count as neither will become a human without fertilization. Legally, you're right. Morally, I think you're wrong.

What does potential mean? Who cares what the potential is? It isnt a human, so, whats the fuss exactly? And subjective morality really doesnt mean much when we are talking about the legality of abortion. Or it shouldnt, anyway.

Correction: It is a human since it has human DNA and human cells.

[Alvecia]

No, they are not even close. They are carriers which cannot reproduce on their own, react to stimuli, or consume or convert energy. They are a product of your body like sweat or poop. Once it's fertilized it is alive and forming a human.

Edit: I am wrong. Sperm is a single called organism. However, I stand by the fact that it has not fertilized an egg and therefore cannot, in its own, become a human.

spermatozoids

Science has the coolest names for stuff.

[Rhionnia]

A zygote cannot react to stimuli either.
Arguably sperm cells consume and convert energy, it's what powers their tails.
Everything from the sperm and egg to a fully formed human is a product of your body.
Sperm and eggs are alive.
A fertilised egg is kind of on the same page as sperm and eggs Re: needing something else. It can't survive without being embedded in a womb

A 3-year-old boy can't survive on his own. He needs a guardian to protect him and provide for him.

Physical biological need to be embedded in the womb to remain alive is not equivalent to requiring adult supervision.

[Esternial]

spermatozoids

Science has the coolest names for stuff.

You say that now but there's a load (hue) of names and there are always a few that sound similar.

[Rhionnia]

What does potential mean? Who cares what the potential is? It isnt a human, so, whats the fuss exactly? And subjective morality really doesnt mean much when we are talking about the legality of abortion. Or it shouldnt, anyway.

Correction: It is a human since it has human DNA and human cells.

That is not how that works. Like, at all. Are tumors human now sincee they fit that vague and ill thought out criteria?

[Esternial]

Correction: It is a human since it has human DNA and human cells.

That is not how that works. Like, at all. Are tumors human now sincee they fit that vague and ill thought out criteria?

A human cell is a human cell. Why should one leave out the "cell" for any reason other than "can't remember more than one word at a time"?

[Alvecia]

Correction: It is a human since it has human DNA and human cells.

That is not how that works. Like, at all. Are tumors human now sincee they fit that vague and ill thought out criteria?

Technically, yes. I think the important distinction is between human and a human.
Anything with human DNA is technically human, but I think what a lot of people mean when they refer to zygotes and the like as human, is that they are a human.

[Esternial]

That is not how that works. Like, at all. Are tumors human now sincee they fit that vague and ill thought out criteria?

Technically, yes. I think the important distinction is between human and a human.
Anything with human DNA is technically human, but I think what a lot of people mean when they refer to zygotes and the like as human, is that they are a human.

Which they then tend to extend to personhood.

[Rhionnia]

That is not how that works. Like, at all. Are tumors human now sincee they fit that vague and ill thought out criteria?

Technically, yes. I think the important distinction is between human and a human.
Anything with human DNA is technically human, but I think what a lot of people mean when they refer to zygotes and the like as human, is that they are a human.

What I mean to say is an individual human being.

[Zottistan]

Personally I find abortion in general, outside of exceptional cases, to be morally reprehensible, but I'm pro keeping the option open because in pragmatic terms the alternative is less safe. In an ideal world it would never happen, but assuming its going to, which it is, I'd prefer it be done by actual doctors in safe, sanitary conditions than in dark alleys by shady dudes with hooks for hands.

[Mexican Aztlan]

I would sterilize everyone. Test tube babies with nought but the finest of genes. Raised by the government.

This is the proper way of doing things.

That sounds a lot like the dystopia in Brave New World. In that book, the government abolished procreation and parenthood. All children were created out of a test tube and raised by the state. I do not think we should go down that route.