[Abortion][REVISED POLL] If you had the power...

[Vassenor]

Hey if I own a bakery is it my right to choose not to cater to homosexual couples?

What does that have to do with abortion?

[The Parkus Empire]

Nope. Prostitution is illegal, for example

And besides the religiously prude esteemed individuals nobody believes that it should be. Regulated and legal for the one's prostituting, but not completely illegal because that punishes the wrong parts unless you believe in mores of the 17th century puritans.

Regardless there is nothing unconstitutional about outlawing prostitution

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Incorrect, and you should feel bad for demonstrating such a shallow understanding of constitutional principles.

I understand the Amendment the way it was understood by its authors

Consider: The thoughts of 18th century philosophers shouldn't be applied without question to the modern world.

[The Parkus Empire]

Hey if I own a bakery is it my right to choose not to cater to homosexual couples?

What does that have to do with abortion?

If the 14th Amendment means I can do ANYTHING with my property so long as I am not hurting another human, er, I mean person, then it would be unconstitutional to say a bakery can't refuse service to homosexual couples

[Shazbotdom]

Still doesn't give any reason (besides a religious one) in which Abortion should be illegal. I have yet to see any logical reasoning for that.

>a human life is being terminated
>no reason given
I mean, maybe murder isn't illegal where you're from, but it is where I am, that being the United States.

Murder is defined as the "Malicious" killing of someone.
"Malicious" is a variation of Malice, which is defined as "The intention or desire to do evil".

How does it fit any of those definitions?

Seriously.

[Godular]

Incorrect, and you should feel bad for demonstrating such a shallow understanding of constitutional principles.

I understand the Amendment the way it was understood by its authors

And which authors would those happen to be?

[The Parkus Empire]

I understand the Amendment the way it was understood by its authors

Consider: The thoughts of 18th century philosophers shouldn't be applied without question to the modern world.

Consider that you don't even know it was written in the Mid 19th Century

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Consider: The thoughts of 18th century philosophers shouldn't be applied without question to the modern world.

Consider that you don't even know it was written in the Mid 19th Century

This is a swaggeringly arrogant statement that assumes that I'm an idiot.

[Vassenor]

Consider: The thoughts of 18th century philosophers shouldn't be applied without question to the modern world.

Consider that you don't even know it was written in the Mid 19th Century

Consider that that correction does not magically invalidate their point.

[Godular]

Consider that you don't even know it was written in the Mid 19th Century

This is a swaggeringly arrogant statement that assumes that I'm an idiot.

Or that the founding fathers were philosophers. I mean, Ben Franklin had a bunch of sayings, and was something of a NATURAL philosopher... but I'm not sure if that qualifies for a bulk statement.

[Gharrow]

>a human life is being terminated
>no reason given
I mean, maybe murder isn't illegal where you're from, but it is where I am, that being the United States.

Murder is defined as the "Malicious" killing of someone.
"Malicious" is a variation of Malice, which is defined as "The intention or desire to do evil".

How does it fit any of those definitions?

Seriously.

No, murder is defined as killing intentionally, which abortion most certainly is. The DEGREE of murder is what depends on malice aforethought, if I remember correctly.

[New Emeline]

Murder is defined as the "Malicious" killing of someone.
"Malicious" is a variation of Malice, which is defined as "The intention or desire to do evil".

How does it fit any of those definitions?

Seriously.

No, murder is defined as killing intentionally, which abortion most certainly is. The DEGREE of murder is what depends on malice aforethought, if I remember correctly.

Actually, "killing intentionally" is homicide, murder is premeditated.

[Frostnia]

What does that have to do with abortion?

If the 14th Amendment means I can do ANYTHING with my property so long as I am not hurting another human, er, I mean person, then it would be unconstitutional to say a bakery can't refuse service to homosexual couples

So the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional?

[The Parkus Empire]

Consider that you don't even know it was written in the Mid 19th Century

Consider that that correction does not magically invalidate their point.

Which is that your interpretation is more accurate simply because it's later? Derp

[Godular]

Murder is defined as the "Malicious" killing of someone.
"Malicious" is a variation of Malice, which is defined as "The intention or desire to do evil".

How does it fit any of those definitions?

Seriously.

No, murder is defined as killing intentionally,

No it isn't. Not even remotely. There are forms of intentional killing which are not murder... such as self-defense.

which abortion most certainly is.

I believe the proper word is 'lol'.

The DEGREE of murder is what depends on malice aforethought, if I remember correctly.

That's only a subset, but no... abortion is not murder. There are a great many other things that it falls under BEFORE murder.

[Vassenor]

Murder is defined as the "Malicious" killing of someone.
"Malicious" is a variation of Malice, which is defined as "The intention or desire to do evil".

How does it fit any of those definitions?

Seriously.

No, murder is defined as killing intentionally, which abortion most certainly is. The DEGREE of murder is what depends on malice aforethought, if I remember correctly.

Malice Aforethought is the difference between murder and manslaughter in U.S. law. First and second degree murder both require Malice Aforethought.

[The Parkus Empire]

If the 14th Amendment means I can do ANYTHING with my property so long as I am not hurting another human, er, I mean person, then it would be unconstitutional to say a bakery can't refuse service to homosexual couples

So the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional?

Eh, based on "stare decisis", yeah: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Cases

However it is arguably more in line with the intent

[Gharrow]

No, murder is defined as killing intentionally,

No it isn't. Not even remotely. There are forms of intentional killing which are not murder... such as self-defense.

which abortion most certainly is.

I believe the proper word is 'lol'.

The DEGREE of murder is what depends on malice aforethought, if I remember correctly.

That's only a subset, but no... abortion is not murder. There are a great many other things that it falls under BEFORE murder.

Is abortion not usually intentional? I haven't heard of accidental abortions, but maybe miracles do happen.

And what would those great many other things be?

[Gharrow]

No, murder is defined as killing intentionally, which abortion most certainly is. The DEGREE of murder is what depends on malice aforethought, if I remember correctly.

Malice Aforethought is the difference between murder and manslaughter in U.S. law. First and second degree murder both require Malice Aforethought.

Ah, shit. I stand corrected.

[Shazbotdom]

Murder is defined as the "Malicious" killing of someone.
"Malicious" is a variation of Malice, which is defined as "The intention or desire to do evil".

How does it fit any of those definitions?

Seriously.

No, murder is defined as killing intentionally, which abortion most certainly is. The DEGREE of murder is what depends on malice aforethought, if I remember correctly.

According to the US Supreme Court in Roe vs Wade, it doesn't fit the definition of Murder.

And in that case, the Justices voted 7 to 2, which 6 Republicans and 1 Democrat within the USSC voted in line with each other. The current push by the Republicans to overturn it is put forth by RINO's, who are nowhere near believing in limited government, and in the past 30 years have done nothing but expand the power of the government.

But, that is a debate for a different time.

[Godular]

No it isn't. Not even remotely. There are forms of intentional killing which are not murder... such as self-defense.



I believe the proper word is 'lol'.



That's only a subset, but no... abortion is not murder. There are a great many other things that it falls under BEFORE murder.

Is abortion not usually intentional? I haven't heard of accidental abortions, but maybe miracles do happen.

Functionally irrelevant.

And what would those great many other things be?

Self-defense is the big one. I mentioned it in the same damn post. Seriously...

[Kaspania]

I am a firm believer in the females right to control their body. However, there should be a way to reduce the amount of accidental pregnancies. Obviously, mistakes do happen, and not everyone is prepared to have a child. For anyone to say don't engage in sexual intercourse unless you're prepared for consequence is ridiculous to ask of people.

[Godular]

I am a firm believer in the females right to control their body. However, there should be a way to reduce the amount of accidental pregnancies. Obviously, mistakes do happen, and not everyone is prepared to have a child. For anyone to say don't engage in sexual intercourse unless you're prepared for consequence is ridiculous to ask of people.

Aye. Taking measures to reduce accidental pregnancies would go a lot further in reducing abortions than most any other policy.

[Kaspania]

I am a firm believer in the females right to control their body. However, there should be a way to reduce the amount of accidental pregnancies. Obviously, mistakes do happen, and not everyone is prepared to have a child. For anyone to say don't engage in sexual intercourse unless you're prepared for consequence is ridiculous to ask of people.

Aye. Taking measures to reduce accidental pregnancies would go a lot further in reducing abortions than most any other policy.

My point exactly.

[Cekoviu]

I am a firm believer in the females right to control their body. However, there should be a way to reduce the amount of accidental pregnancies. Obviously, mistakes do happen, and not everyone is prepared to have a child. For anyone to say don't engage in sexual intercourse unless you're prepared for consequence is ridiculous to ask of people.

Aye. Taking measures to reduce accidental pregnancies would go a lot further in reducing abortions than most any other policy.

They'd likely go to nearly zero if we had comprehensive sex education and free healthcare (including birth control). Too bad so many pro-lifers don't advocate for such policies; maybe then their position would be tolerable.