[Abortion][REVISED POLL] If you had the power...

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I'm talking more about the fact that this thread disintegrated into a shit storm as quick as it did.

We need to restart or else this thread is going to go down as one of the worst forums in history.

This thread has seen people literally victim blaming victims of paedophiles. This spat is nothing.

[VoVoDoCo]

I'm talking more about the fact that this thread disintegrated into a shit storm as quick as it did.

We need to restart or else this thread is going to go down asone of the worst forums in history a forum that could've used a little more work.

I believe the mother has the right to own her body, and simply a collection of stem cells using her as a platform for greater development doesn't justify the government forcing her to go through with the pregnancy.

9 month abortions literally don't happen.

3rd trimester abortions do happen, but they're too rare to justify blanket policies.

Attack me plez.

Yeah, you haven't been here long...

Better?

[VoVoDoCo]

I also don't believe in subsidizing abortions. They can be self funded.

[Katganistan]

I think it's telling that even with the poll reboot, the most popular answer is basically to try to avoid abortion through comprehensive sex ed and open access to affordable contraception, but to keep it legal since stuff happens.

[VoVoDoCo]

I think it's telling that even with the poll reboot, the most popular answer is basically to try to avoid abortion through comprehensive sex ed and open access to affordable contraception, but to keep it legal since stuff happens.

Yeah. That answer has 39 votes. The next three combined have 42.

EDIT: I'm not bad at math, more people keep voting.

[Albrenia]

I think it's telling that even with the poll reboot, the most popular answer is basically to try to avoid abortion through comprehensive sex ed and open access to affordable contraception, but to keep it legal since stuff happens.

It seems the most reasonable choice to me.

[Katganistan]

I think it's telling that even with the poll reboot, the most popular answer is basically to try to avoid abortion through comprehensive sex ed and open access to affordable contraception, but to keep it legal since stuff happens.

It seems the most reasonable choice to me.

I think it is, honestly.

It worries me when some of the same people who are all for banning abortion are also all for banning making contraception easy to get, and also all for banning comprehensive sex education.

Almost as if it's a 'let's punish 'em for pregnancy' trap.

[New haven america]

It seems the most reasonable choice to me.

I think it is, honestly.

It worries me when some of the same people who are all for banning abortion are also all for banning making contraception easy to get, and also all for banning comprehensive sex education.

Almost as if it's a 'let's punish 'em for pregnancy' trap.

Because it is.

[Dylar]

It seems the most reasonable choice to me.

I think it is, honestly.

It worries me when some of the same people who are all for banning abortion are also all for banning making contraception easy to get, and also all for banning comprehensive sex education.

Almost as if it's a 'let's punish 'em for pregnancy' trap.

Which is why I voted Option 5...which I should probably change to Option 6 because of one exception that I'll allow: If we know for certain that the fetus will not survive, and if the mother were to die if she were to carry the non-viable fetus to term.

[Katganistan]

I think it is, honestly.

It worries me when some of the same people who are all for banning abortion are also all for banning making contraception easy to get, and also all for banning comprehensive sex education.

Almost as if it's a 'let's punish 'em for pregnancy' trap.

Which is why I voted Option 5...which I should probably change to Option 6 because of one exception that I'll allow: If we know for certain that the fetus will not survive, and if the mother were to die if she were to carry the non-viable fetus to term.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I fear.

[Greater Redosia]

You know, there has been a lot of people who don't like abortion because of their religious beliefs and such. If there is a god (not saying there is but IF) then why give, us the mental capacity to do abortions, us the ability to do abortions in the first place, the materials to be able to do abortions, and us being able to come up with such a thing in the first place. So either god is okay with us doing this because he gave us the means to do so or there is no god. Honestly by this logic it would completely take religion out of the reasons abortion should be illegal. (Or not, idk cannot control how others live and it's like 10 at night so I could be just trying to process this badly so don't completely take my word for everything here.)

[Godular]

We need to restart or else this thread is going to go down as one of the worst forums in history.

I believe the mother has the right to own her body, and simply a collection of stem cells using her as a platform for greater development doesn't justify the government forcing her to go through with the pregnancy.

9 month abortions literally don't happen.

3rd trimester abortions do happen, but they're too rare to justify blanket policies.

Attack me plez.

Pffft... this is par for the course.

[Godular]

Murder, is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

In order for killing another human to be murder, it has to be done illegally. By legalizing abortion, it's not illegal. Therefore, not murder.

Semantics. It should be a crime because it is morally equivalent to murder.

No it isn't. Prove how it is.

[Tananat]

You know, there has been a lot of people who don't like abortion because of their religious beliefs and such. If there is a god (not saying there is but IF) then why give, us the mental capacity to do abortions, us the ability to do abortions in the first place, the materials to be able to do abortions, and us being able to come up with such a thing in the first place. So either god is okay with us doing this because he gave us the means to do so or there is no god. Honestly by this logic it would completely take religion out of the reasons abortion should be illegal. (Or not, idk cannot control how others live and it's like 10 at night so I could be just trying to process this badly so don't completely take my word for everything here.)

You're completely ignoring the free will element there, as people often do when they posit the argument 'God must be ok with x because x happens". The response to that is to point out that God explicitly gave humanity the free will to make those choices.

I'm not going to get involved in the religious side of the abortion argument, only to say that even if it is against your religion, you (general you, not you in particular) still don't have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

[Attempted Socialism]

With United Muscovite Nations leaving the thread (though due to "spiritual" health, not something to do with reality), Keshiland being banned for a week and the Israel nation unresponsive, the last twenty or so pages or so have produced exactly 0 openly stated 'converts', but the poll stands at:
- Legal: 39+13+4=56% *
- Illegal with exceptions: 16+13=29% *
- Illegal: 7+4=11%
- Population control: 4%
* in both totals, enacting measures to reduce unwanted pregnancies constitute more than half, as can also be seen when adding up all three options for reducing unwanted pregnancies:
- 39+16+7=62%

The last 3 posters arguing for illegality of abortions are a clear minority, failing to convince their audience. Perhaps this is understandable; if I held the same policy position as e.g. Keshiland, I'd spend a few moments taking stock of my opinions and reevaluate how I arrived at them. In other words, public discourse worked.

[Greater Redosia]

You know, there has been a lot of people who don't like abortion because of their religious beliefs and such. If there is a god (not saying there is but IF) then why give, us the mental capacity to do abortions, us the ability to do abortions in the first place, the materials to be able to do abortions, and us being able to come up with such a thing in the first place. So either god is okay with us doing this because he gave us the means to do so or there is no god. Honestly by this logic it would completely take religion out of the reasons abortion should be illegal. (Or not, idk cannot control how others live and it's like 10 at night so I could be just trying to process this badly so don't completely take my word for everything here.)

You're completely ignoring the free will element there, as people often do when they posit the argument 'God must be ok with x because x happens". The response to that is to point out that God explicitly gave humanity the free will to make those choices.

I'm not going to get involved in the religious side of the abortion argument, only to say that even if it is against your religion, you (general you, not you in particular) still don't have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

Well I would rather have that women have the right to do what they want as well and it was 10 at night and I was trying to process things on a brain that was trying to stay awake after waking up.

[Ifreann]

I also don't believe in subsidizing abortions. They can be self funded.

Unless a woman is poor. That's a condition that tends to entail difficulty in funding things.

[The New California Republic]

Really you think the mother should walk free. Btw it was in the UK and she got 8 years

How fortunate that UK laws do not apply to anyone who is neither a UK citizen nor in the UK.

UK abortion laws are nowhere near as bad as Keshiland is suggesting. The case he is referencing was a full-term abortion, that was carried out by the woman herself. The case had various unique circumstances to it, and is not indicative of the UK laws on abortion, which are far more liberal than many areas of the United States for example. Obligatory link to the case is here, for anyone who is interested: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-19621675

Keshiland distorted that case to make the UK seem pro-life in terms of abortion policy. We absolutely are not, let me be abundantly clear on that. In fact, women from Ireland travel to the UK to have abortions that would be illegal in Ireland.

[Ifreann]

How fortunate that UK laws do not apply to anyone who is neither a UK citizen nor in the UK.

UK abortion laws are nowhere near as bad as Keshiland is suggesting. The case he is referencing was a full-term abortion, that was carried out by the woman herself. The case had various unique circumstances to it, and is not indicative of the UK laws on abortion, which are far more liberal than many areas of the United States for example. Obligatory link to the case is here, for anyone who is interested: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-19621675

Keshiland distorted that case to make the UK seem pro-life in terms of abortion policy. We absolutely are not, let me be abundantly clear on that. In fact, women from Ireland flee to the UK to have abortions that would be illegal in Ireland.

I mean. I wouldn't say "flee". The government isn't chasing pregnant women down as they ramp their car onto the last ferry of the day. And they do come back here afterwards.

[The New California Republic]

UK abortion laws are nowhere near as bad as Keshiland is suggesting. The case he is referencing was a full-term abortion, that was carried out by the woman herself. The case had various unique circumstances to it, and is not indicative of the UK laws on abortion, which are far more liberal than many areas of the United States for example. Obligatory link to the case is here, for anyone who is interested: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-19621675

Keshiland distorted that case to make the UK seem pro-life in terms of abortion policy. We absolutely are not, let me be abundantly clear on that. In fact, women from Ireland flee to the UK to have abortions that would be illegal in Ireland.

I mean. I wouldn't say "flee". The government isn't chasing pregnant women down as they ramp their car onto the last ferry of the day.

I laughed at the mental image that was conjured up in my mind by that statement. Am I a bad person?

I also edited my very colourful word choice, it sounded much more dramatic than I thought it did.

[Vassenor]

I mean. I wouldn't say "flee". The government isn't chasing pregnant women down as they ramp their car onto the last ferry of the day.

I laughed at the mental image that was conjured up in my mind by that statement. Am I a bad person?

I also edited my very colourful word choice, it sounded much more dramatic than I thought it did.

No, you just saw the Top Gear episode where Clarkson did pretty much that. And missed.

[The New California Republic]

I laughed at the mental image that was conjured up in my mind by that statement. Am I a bad person?

I also edited my very colourful word choice, it sounded much more dramatic than I thought it did.

No, you just saw the Top Gear episode where Clarkson did pretty much that. And missed.

Clarkson annoyed me, I tried to watch Top Gear as little as possible. Hence why I don't know which episode you are referring to. So it was definitely the mental image, not Top Gear, that caused me to laugh.

[Segral]

Just a curious question, how did Keshiland get banned?

[The New California Republic]

Just a curious question, how did Keshiland get banned?

Here:

I find it funny that planned Parenthood is gonna be defubded and hopefully go ot of business. How does losing feel pro choicers

You've been warned, take a *** One week ban for trolling/gloating ***. Note the next time you return, if you continue to violate the rules you'll be deleted. We're at the end of being nice.

[Neutraligon]

I also don't believe in subsidizing abortions. They can be self funded.

Unless a woman is poor. That's a condition that tends to entail difficulty in funding things.

Which...tends to be the majority of women seeking abortion. https://www.guttmacher.org/report/chara ... ients-2014
A whooping 75% are low income, with just below half being below federal poverty level.