US student who was detained in N. Korea has died

[New haven america]

1. NK doesn't claim to be Communist anymore, they're Juche
2. You've gotten your countries wrong, it's: China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, and NK (Everyone still considers them communist)
3. None of those countries have been subject to "Western Imperialism" for 40/50+ years, their problems are their fault

Juche is a Marxist-Leninist ideology. Marxist-Leninism is a form of communist thought. While North Korea may not technically be "communist" in it's true sense, it is still deeply rooted in communist ideology.

If you take off your west colored glasses, you can see that all Marxist countries are affected by American imperialism. Especially North Korea, which are still suffering under attack and scapegoating from the western media, as well as trade sanctions from the United Nations.

No it's not. It started out as Marxist, then evolved into something distinctly Korean, especially by it acceptance and emphasis of individuals, the state, and national sovereignty (The latter 2 are distinctly anti-Marx, and you'd know that if you knew anything about Communism).

North Korea has been suffering even since the fall of their former largest trade partner (The USSR) and its governments hoarding of resources, so no, it's not the West's fault, it's NK's fault.

Dammit Summer, bring me something better.

[The Federation of Kendor]

1. NK doesn't claim to be Communist anymore, they're Juche
2. You've gotten your countries wrong, it's: China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, and NK (Everyone still considers them communist)
3. None of those countries have been subject to "Western Imperialism" for 40/50+ years, their problems are their fault

Juche is a Marxist-Leninist ideology. Marxist-Leninism is a form of communist thought. While North Korea may not technically be "communist" in it's true sense, it is still deeply rooted in communist ideology.

If you take off your west colored glasses, you can see that all Marxist countries are affected by American imperialism. Especially North Korea, which are still suffering under attack and scapegoating from the western media, as well as trade sanctions from the United Nations.

So, all those human abuses, concentration camps reports, and all other bad things about North Korea is western lie, and the photos "proving" it are manipulated

[Josepf Stalin]

Juche is a Marxist-Leninist ideology. Marxist-Leninism is a form of communist thought. While North Korea may not technically be "communist" in it's true sense, it is still deeply rooted in communist ideology.

If you take off your west colored glasses, you can see that all Marxist countries are affected by American imperialism. Especially North Korea, which are still suffering under attack and scapegoating from the western media, as well as trade sanctions from the United Nations.

No it's not. It started out as Marxist, then evolved into something distinctly Korean, especially by it acceptance and emphasis of individuals, the state, and national sovereignty (The latter 2 are distinctly anti-Marx, and you'd know that if you knew anything about Communism).

North Korea has been suffering even since the fall of their former largest trade partner (The USSR) and its governments hoarding of resources, so no, it's not the West's fault, it's NK's fault.

Dammit Summer, bring me something better.

You say North Korea is not Marxist, that is because you are not thinking dialectically. If you were, you would understand that North Korea is the way it is because they need to defend themselves from Western Imperialism.

The state is not anti-marx. Marx noted the importance of implementing Socialist states as a way to transition to communism.

[The Federation of Kendor]

No it's not. It started out as Marxist, then evolved into something distinctly Korean, especially by it acceptance and emphasis of individuals, the state, and national sovereignty (The latter 2 are distinctly anti-Marx, and you'd know that if you knew anything about Communism).

North Korea has been suffering even since the fall of their former largest trade partner (The USSR) and its governments hoarding of resources, so no, it's not the West's fault, it's NK's fault.

Dammit Summer, bring me something better.

You say North Korea is not Marxist, that is because you are not thinking dialectically. If you were, you would understand that North Korea is the way it is because they need to defend themselves from Western Imperialism.

The state is not anti-marx. Marx noted the importance of implementing Socialist states as a way to get to communism.

So, it is also necessary for North Korea and China to implement communism on their neighbours, such as Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea

Edit: Can you make a different thread for this discussion please. We are threadjacking

[Josepf Stalin]

Juche is a Marxist-Leninist ideology. Marxist-Leninism is a form of communist thought. While North Korea may not technically be "communist" in it's true sense, it is still deeply rooted in communist ideology.

If you take off your west colored glasses, you can see that all Marxist countries are affected by American imperialism. Especially North Korea, which are still suffering under attack and scapegoating from the western media, as well as trade sanctions from the United Nations.

So, all those human abuses, concentration camps reports, and all other bad things about North Korea is western lie, and the photos "proving" it are manipulated

In comparison to the millions of people killed by america and western imperialism, it is hardly a contest which is the better country.

[The Federation of Kendor]

So, all those human abuses, concentration camps reports, and all other bad things about North Korea is western lie, and the photos "proving" it are manipulated

In comparison to the millions of people killed by america and western imperialism, it is hardly a contest which is the better country.

So you consider that the number of lives the West taken justified North Korea's cruelty on their dissidents

Also, can you please make a new thread to discuss your subject, because we are threadjacking

[New haven america]

No it's not. It started out as Marxist, then evolved into something distinctly Korean, especially by it acceptance and emphasis of individuals, the state, and national sovereignty (The latter 2 are distinctly anti-Marx, and you'd know that if you knew anything about Communism).

North Korea has been suffering even since the fall of their former largest trade partner (The USSR) and its governments hoarding of resources, so no, it's not the West's fault, it's NK's fault.

Dammit Summer, bring me something better.

You say North Korea is not Marxist, that is because you are not thinking dialectically. If you were, you would understand that North Korea is the way it is because they need to defend themselves from Western Imperialism.

The state is not anti-marx. Marx noted the importance of implementing Socialist states as a way to transition to communism.

So that also includes closing off their borders and restricting access/exit of the country for places like China and Russia? Which aren't Western BTW.

Way to avoid the other topics. Also, no, NK has stated that their not socialist or communist, they're juche, which goes against pretty much every tenant of the two.

You're boring me, think of something better or shoo.

[New haven america]

So, all those human abuses, concentration camps reports, and all other bad things about North Korea is western lie, and the photos "proving" it are manipulated

In comparison to the millions of people killed by america and western imperialism, it is hardly a contest which is the better country.

I'd like to point out that the US is NK's biggest aid giver.

The population however, barely sees any of it, due to the aforementioned governmental resource hoarding.

[The Federation of Kendor]

New Haven America and Josepf Stalin, I created a new thread to orevent the threadjack: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=416304

[Sovaal]

So, all those human abuses, concentration camps reports, and all other bad things about North Korea is western lie, and the photos "proving" it are manipulated

In comparison to the millions of people killed by america and western imperialism, it is hardly a contest which is the better country.

How about in comparison to the millions more killed by the Soviets?

[Minoa]

You mean that liberation is a no go? The brutality of the regime in North Korea is clearly unrivalled despite the equality troubles of the US. I mean, where else does a country have concentrations camps that intern up to three generations of the entire family for the crimes of just one?

I mean that South Koreans don't want to liberate North Korea anymore. Many view it as effectively a lost cause, and a people whom they have a connection to in name only, have no strong feelings towards the North's problems (And don't really view themselves as the same people for the most part these days). Culturally the two are very different from one another. In the North you have a population which has lived under the Juche system for generations, relying largely (if not entirely) on the central government for practically everything (including finding work, how to act in your daily life, what is and isn't appropriate, etc.). In the South, you have one of the most brutally capitalistic countries in the world. The two couldn't more different from one another, and are almost entirely opposed in philosophies.

Not to mention the absolute humanitarian disaster that would result from the collapse of the North's regime, which would rival what is going on currently if not eclipse it. South Korea does not have the resources to build North Korea into anything, at all.

Unfortunately, North Korea is already an absolute humanitarian disaster by how the regime treated its people. Liberation, in my opinion, would at least start the recovery from the dark days if we did something like the Marshall Plan: Germany (then the Western side) and Austria recovered from total wartime devastation to one of the most developed nations in modern Europe by the end of the 1950s. In that way, it would make reunification more likely.

[Neo Balka]

I mean that South Koreans don't want to liberate North Korea anymore. Many view it as effectively a lost cause, and a people whom they have a connection to in name only, have no strong feelings towards the North's problems (And don't really view themselves as the same people for the most part these days). Culturally the two are very different from one another. In the North you have a population which has lived under the Juche system for generations, relying largely (if not entirely) on the central government for practically everything (including finding work, how to act in your daily life, what is and isn't appropriate, etc.). In the South, you have one of the most brutally capitalistic countries in the world. The two couldn't more different from one another, and are almost entirely opposed in philosophies.

Not to mention the absolute humanitarian disaster that would result from the collapse of the North's regime, which would rival what is going on currently if not eclipse it. South Korea does not have the resources to build North Korea into anything, at all.

Unfortunately, North Korea is already an absolute humanitarian disaster by how the regime treated its people. Liberation, in my opinion, would at least start the recovery from the dark days if we did something like the Marshall Plan: Germany (then the Western side) and Austria recovered from total wartime devastation to one of the most developed nations in modern Europe by the end of the 1950s. In that way, it would make reunification more likely.

Or it would make things even worse. Who knows?

[Zanera]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40372080
I guess it brought some banter and Nork propaganda?
IDK what to think of that.

[Auze]

Absolutely horrible.

Why go to NK though.

A sense of morbid fascination, plus North Korea is somewhat like a time capsule, in the sense that it still lives in a Cold War mentality and still has the trappings of a full communist state, even if it may not be as such.

Why not go to Cuba, it is even closer to the cold war nations, and it's (a little) safer

[Athrax]

Unfortunately, North Korea is already an absolute humanitarian disaster by how the regime treated its people. Liberation, in my opinion, would at least start the recovery from the dark days if we did something like the Marshall Plan: Germany (then the Western side) and Austria recovered from total wartime devastation to one of the most developed nations in modern Europe by the end of the 1950s. In that way, it would make reunification more likely.

Or it would make things even worse. Who knows?

Putting aside the overwhelming cost of civilian loss of life likely and the huge investment in American lives and treasure and the increased tensions with Russia and China and all the othe problems inherent in a war with North Korea, I suppose enouh effort could be made to fix North Korea if we don't suffer from the myopia that cost us Afghanistan

[Benuty]

A sense of morbid fascination, plus North Korea is somewhat like a time capsule, in the sense that it still lives in a Cold War mentality and still has the trappings of a full communist state, even if it may not be as such.

Why not go to Cuba, it is even closer to the cold war nations, and it's (a little) safer

Probably because Cuba isn't as exciting to go to without constant tensions, and one of the most heavily militarized borders in the world. Sure if you want classic cars that have constantly been restored due to the blockaded then sure go to Cuba.

[Athrax]

Why not go to Cuba, it is even closer to the cold war nations, and it's (a little) safer

Probably because Cuba isn't as exciting to go to without constant tensions, and one of the most heavily militarized borders in the world. Sure if you want classic cars that have constantly been restored due to the blockaded then sure go to Cuba.

You can get the same border from the Southern side without the thought police and risk of forced labor

[Ethel mermania]

Why not go to Cuba, it is even closer to the cold war nations, and it's (a little) safer

Probably because Cuba isn't as exciting to go to without constant tensions, and one of the most heavily militarized borders in the world. Sure if you want classic cars that have constantly been restored due to the blockaded then sure go to Cuba.

Nicer beaches, better music.

[Benuty]

Probably because Cuba isn't as exciting to go to without constant tensions, and one of the most heavily militarized borders in the world. Sure if you want classic cars that have constantly been restored due to the blockaded then sure go to Cuba.

You can get the same border from the Southern side without the thought police and risk of forced labor

Yet where are the heavily traumatized women selected by the state to entertain foreigners on the state tour? Or the bugged hotels where nearly everything is watching you? Or the ruined ships that get touted by museum experts as tools of American imperialism being defeated by the common Korean? Or best of all the children forced to perform a concert for the glorious leader while you get front row seats?

[Athrax]

Probably because Cuba isn't as exciting to go to without constant tensions, and one of the most heavily militarized borders in the world. Sure if you want classic cars that have constantly been restored due to the blockaded then sure go to Cuba.

Nicer beaches, better music.

Better rum too

[Great Minarchistan]

Not shocking at all. Best Korean death prison camps can't be much fun.

Hope the poor guy recovers.

Unlikely. It's not just a minor concussion from being coshed in the head, the guy's literally a walking vegetable. Like he's been lobotomized.

I doubt he'll ever be able to speak or feed and bathe himself again.

IIRC 1 in every 5 patients in vegetative state can communicate through electrical impulses. Link:

http://ideas.ted.com/the-science-that-h ... oved-ones/

20% aren't the best chances but hey, who knows.

[Brocialist]

1. NK doesn't claim to be Communist anymore, they're Juche

Juche is a form of communism.

[Kubra]

1. NK doesn't claim to be Communist anymore, they're Juche

Juche is a form of communism.

It cannot definitely be said to be a form of communist theory. Then again, neither can it not be said to be.
Shits fucking vague on headier topics, and don't bother going to primary source material, it's no help.
In any case, given the removal of any mention of the world communism from official state documents, including the current constitution, we can say that at present it is probably not communist. Like hell even old Brezhnev gave lip service.