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US student who was detained in N. Korea has died

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:17 pm

NeoOasis wrote:
greed and death wrote:Occupy them militarily and have them sign a treaty granting Americans extra judicial status in exchange for leaving.


So spending billions of dollars, killing thousands of our soldiers, and risking another quagmire is worth it because some dumbass poked the beehive knowing full well he was allergic? America's history of installing pro-whatever government's has been a remarkably poor one in the past 70 years. South Vietnam fell, South Korea's dictatorship fell in the 1980s, Iraq and Afganistan likely wouldn't be around without continued American support, Iran had that whole coup fiasco in the 70s, and the US trying to support the Nationalists in China only led to the weird political entity that is Taiwan today. Pretty sure I missed a few, but do we really need to get involved in a country that is even further down the drain than Afghanistan was under the Taliban?

Conquest over a slight is incredibly childish. Inequal treaties were bullshit in the 19th century, and they are flat out not workable now. By pushing NK into such a treaty, we'd be basically giving other nationals such as Turkey open permission to assault whoever they please. Simply follow the laws of the country you currently reside in, and don't go crying to Uncle Sam when you get caned for chewing gum. The United States isn't Russia. It doesn't need to invading other countries to prove what a big boy it is. And I still firmly believe that American citizens are smarter/classier than to whine after breaking the law in a foreign country.

tl;dr: One person isn't worth another major conflict in which our own troops will die. A simple travel ban will suffice if people are too damn stupid to realize they've walked into a lion enclosure covered in steaks. We need to close out our current responsibilities before moving on to a new project. Otherwise we'd be disrespecting the sacrifices made in the Middle East.


I'm totally down with the idea that the US hasn't been doing brilliantly with regime replacement recently.

But here's the thing. Could they really do worse than what is there in North Korea?

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:18 pm

Zeinbrad wrote:
AiliailiA wrote:I wish posters would stop comparing Warmbier's condition to being "lobotomized". It's much worse than that.

How so?

The effects of lobotomy aren't consistent; some lobotomized patients were severely disabled, but some others functioned normally afterward. Probably due to imperfect technique and overuse.
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NeoOasis
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Postby NeoOasis » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:58 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:I'm totally down with the idea that the US hasn't been doing brilliantly with regime replacement recently.

But here's the thing. Could they really do worse than what is there in North Korea?


Touche, but I'd rather not spend the blood and billions to find out.
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Zanera
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Postby Zanera » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:13 pm

IDK if this been posted or no but:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40308028

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Gig em Aggies
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American Otto Warmbier dead

Postby Gig em Aggies » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:34 pm

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/otto-warmbier-american-who-had-been-detained-in-north-korea-has-died-family-statement/ar-BBCU6Ly
Just saw this on msn I never before heard of an American or any foreign tourist dying as a result of mistreatment or detainment in North Korea before.
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Neo Balka
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Postby Neo Balka » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:35 pm

Fucking norks.
The mere fact that i pissed someone off either means i stood for something or i said something offensive.
in this day and age it's both.
#garbagehumanbeing

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Zanera
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Postby Zanera » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:48 pm

Otto is dead.
I will not comment what I think should happen because in reality, nothing will probably be done. This is probably it...

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Biancavilla
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Postby Biancavilla » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:54 pm

Not sure why anyone would ever go to NK, once you're there you are completely under their rules. The US government can't really do anything to help you, there's a Swedish embassy there you can maybe contact but even they are limited with what they can do I believe.
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Festung Mittelwesten
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Postby Festung Mittelwesten » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:05 pm

Why was ending the Korean war a mistake?

We could've dismantled the whole damned regime ez pz.
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Kaboomlandia
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Postby Kaboomlandia » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:07 pm

The title has been changed to reflect Warmbier's tragic passing.
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Luziyca
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Postby Luziyca » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:51 pm

Festung Mittelwesten wrote:Why was ending the Korean war a mistake?

We could've dismantled the whole damned regime ez pz.

Technically:

1) The Korean War still has not ended. There is an armistice, but it has been broken so many times that the war still continues on.
2) 2 years of stalemate would like to beg to differ

On the topic posed by the OP, condolences to the friends and family of the student. Would be interesting to find out the autopsy results to determine if his damage corresponds with what the northern regime claims, or if it is abuse by the North Korean guards.
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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:53 pm

Festung Mittelwesten wrote:Why was ending the Korean war a mistake?

We could've dismantled the whole damned regime ez pz.

Unless you wanted to start a nuclear war between the Soviets and Americans, it was bad.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

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Neo Balka
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Postby Neo Balka » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:54 pm

Sovaal wrote:
Festung Mittelwesten wrote:Why was ending the Korean war a mistake?

We could've dismantled the whole damned regime ez pz.

Unless you wanted to start a nuclear war between the Soviets and Americans, it was bad.


Yet we were in a shooting war with china.

Thats right, China. and i am certain that we killed russian pilots in MIG-15s in combat constantly.
The mere fact that i pissed someone off either means i stood for something or i said something offensive.
in this day and age it's both.
#garbagehumanbeing

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Socialist Tera
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Postby Socialist Tera » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:58 pm

Napkiraly wrote:If he dies, North Korea needs to be punished severely.

Maybe we can do it when America gets punished for guantanamo bay crimes.
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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:59 pm

Neo Balka wrote:
Sovaal wrote:Unless you wanted to start a nuclear war between the Soviets and Americans, it was bad.


Yet we were in a shooting war with china.

Thats right, China. and i am certain that we killed russian pilots in MIG-15s in combat constantly.

China didn't have nukes then, however.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Yortium Allanstan
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Postby Yortium Allanstan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:14 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Kalinin K-8 wrote:Furthermore, countries should at least honor an American's rights in their country with their entrance, and not jail them unless a major, *actual* crime has been committed. DPRK honors none of these.


Why do people believe that Americans are somehow protected from the laws of other countries? Does American law enforcement allow foreign tourists to have sex with children in the US simply because it is legal to have sex with children in their home countries?



Are you seriously defending North Korea? And comparing it's insane edicts to laws against child rape?! What the hell is wrong with you?
Last edited by Yortium Allanstan on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:41 pm

Socialist Tera wrote:
Napkiraly wrote:If he dies, North Korea needs to be punished severely.

Maybe we can do it when America gets punished for guantanamo bay crimes.

Ya that's not the same thing at all. One is a poor college kid who was accused of something he didn't do and the others are terrorists who have killed hundreds
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:42 pm

Neo Balka wrote:Fucking norks.

Sounds like casus belli to me
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:43 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Socialist Tera wrote:Maybe we can do it when America gets punished for guantanamo bay crimes.

Ya that's not the same thing at all. One is a poor college kid who was accused of something he didn't do and the others are terrorists who have killed hundreds

Yes, everyone in Guantanamo has killed hundreds of people. Literally none of them have been accused of something they didn't do.

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Neo Balka
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Postby Neo Balka » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:45 pm

Socialist Tera wrote:
Napkiraly wrote:If he dies, North Korea needs to be punished severely.

Maybe we can do it when America gets punished for guantanamo bay crimes.


meh.
The mere fact that i pissed someone off either means i stood for something or i said something offensive.
in this day and age it's both.
#garbagehumanbeing

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:47 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Ya that's not the same thing at all. One is a poor college kid who was accused of something he didn't do and the others are terrorists who have killed hundreds

Yes, everyone in Guantanamo has killed hundreds of people. Literally none of them have been accused of something they didn't do.

You hear that? No? That's the sound of everyone who made that argument.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:50 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Yes, everyone in Guantanamo has killed hundreds of people. Literally none of them have been accused of something they didn't do.

You hear that? No? That's the sound of everyone who made that argument.

Why dont we let the person I responded to speak for themselves.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:53 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Ya that's not the same thing at all. One is a poor college kid who was accused of something he didn't do and the others are terrorists who have killed hundreds

Yes, everyone in Guantanamo has killed hundreds of people. Literally none of them have been accused of something they didn't do.

Right... let's compare terrorists to a kid
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:56 pm

Exterminatus when?
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Socialist Tera
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Postby Socialist Tera » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:58 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Yes, everyone in Guantanamo has killed hundreds of people. Literally none of them have been accused of something they didn't do.

Right... let's compare terrorists to a kid

So, it's ok to do horrendous things to terrorists huh? There goes your moral high ground.
Last edited by Socialist Tera on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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