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US student who was detained in N. Korea has died

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Kaboomlandia
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US student who was detained in N. Korea has died

Postby Kaboomlandia » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:27 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ere-injury

An American college student who was imprisoned in North Korea and returned to his home state of Ohio in a coma has a severe brain injury and is in a state of “unresponsive wakefulness”, according to doctors who are treating him.

Otto Warmbier, 22, who arrived in the United States on Tuesday, is stable but “shows no sign of understanding language, responding to verbal commands or awareness of his surrounding”, said Dr Daniel Kanter, medical director of the neuroscience intensive care unit at the University of Cincinnati.

“He has not spoken,” Kanter said at a press conference. “He has not engaged in any purposeful movements or behaviors.” He said Warmbier was breathing on his own.


American student released from North Korea prison is reportedly in a coma
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Earlier, his father, Fred Warmbier, said he did not believe North Korea’s explanation that the coma resulted from botulism and a sleeping pill. He said there was no reason for North Korea to keep his son’s condition a secret and deny him top medical care.

Fred Warmbier called his son’s return bittersweet.

“Relief that Otto is now home in arms of those who love him and anger that he was so brutally treated for so long,” he said at a news conference at Wyoming high school, where Warmbier graduated in 2013 as class salutatorian and played soccer.

Fred Warmbier told told Fox News’ Tucker Carlson on Wednesday that Otto had been “terrorized and brutalized” during his 17-month detention and had been in a coma for more than a year.

“The day after he was sentenced, he went into a coma,” the father said in an interview scheduled to air Thursday night. He said he and his wife, Cindy, had only learned of their son’s condition last week.

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The 22-year-old University of Virginia student was medically evacuated from North Korea and arrived in Cincinnati late on Tuesday. He was then taken by ambulance to the University of Cincinnati medical center.

Residents of the northern Cincinnati suburb of Wyoming tied blue-and-white ribbons, the school colors, to trees near the family’s home. Joy at his release was mixed with concern over his condition.

In its first official comment since Warmbier was returned home, North Korea said it had released him for humanitarian reasons. The state-run Korean Central News Agency on Thursday said he had been sentenced to hard labor but did not comment on his medical condition.

The former New Mexico governor Bill Richardson, a former US ambassador to the United Nations, said there should be an investigation into what happened to Warmbier leading to this “tragic situation”.

Richardson, a Democrat, credited the Department of State with securing Warmbier’s return from North Korea without any preconditions but said a forceful response from the US government would be required “if it’s determined that there was a cover-up and Otto’s condition was not disclosed and he didn’t get proper treatment”.

Warmbier was serving a 15-year prison term with hard labor in North Korea after he tearfully confessed that he tried to steal a propaganda banner while visiting the country.

Such detentions have added to tensions between Washington and Pyongyang. Three Americans remain in custody.

The US government accuses North Korea of using such detainees as political pawns. North Korea accuses Washington and South Korea of sending spies to overthrow its government.

The secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, said Tuesday that his department was continuing “to have discussions” with North Korea about the release of the other three imprisoned American citizens.

When asked by Fox News what he would tell the families of those detained, Fred Warmbier said: “I wouldn’t know what to say to them. This is, I’ve been told, not precedented.”


Basically, the tl;dr of this story is that Otto Warmbier, who recently was released from North Korea after being sentenced to 15 years of hard labour, has apparently suffered severe brain damage and hasn't spoken since returning. North Korea claims that it was botulism and a sleeping pill, but there's some skeptics of that explanation.

So sad to see this, and I think there needs to be an investigation on what really happened.

What are your thoughts on this matter?


EDIT 6/19/17: As Warmbier has now passed away, the title of the thread has been changed.
Last edited by Kaboomlandia on Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:33 pm

If he dies, North Korea needs to be punished severely.

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FelrikTheDeleted
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Postby FelrikTheDeleted » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:34 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if they (North Korea) was the cause of his brain injury.

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Kaboomlandia
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Postby Kaboomlandia » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:36 pm

FelrikTheDeleted wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if they (North Korea) was the cause of his brain injury.

It does say in the article that he was in a coma for...a pretty good chunk of his sentence.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:52 pm

Napkiraly wrote:If he dies, North Korea needs to be punished severely.

Civis American sum?
Last edited by Genivaria on Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby NeoOasis » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:58 pm

My thoughts remain unchanged. Don't visit a country hostile to anything vaguely American. Don't steal anything while visiting that country. And don't expect to have a good time if you do. I'm finding it a bit hard to find too much sympathy here.

Do we really need to reignite a war in the Korean Penninsula over the stupid actions of some person? I'd rather avoid the deaths of thousands, and economic impact against close allies. Let this serve as a warning... just don't go to North Korea.
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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:19 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Napkiraly wrote:If he dies, North Korea needs to be punished severely.

Civis American sum?

Soon.

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Postby MERIZoC » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:23 pm

RIP Dokrib

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San Marlindo
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Postby San Marlindo » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:15 pm

It's interesting that he doesn't appear to have any signs of physical abuse like recent bruises or healed fractures.

I suspect the North Korean security services injected him with a drug (or a cocktail of drugs) as part of an interrogation routine which in turn reduced him to a vegetative state. Perhaps his nervous system responded poorly to the particular substance used, or perhaps it was a reaction not to one drug but several drugs used at once, or administered in separate doses that had a devastating effect when combined in the bloodstream.

It's also possible that Otto was the subject of unethical human experimentation. Political detainees and prison inmates are well-documented as having been intentionally exposed to toxins, gassed, and subject to various invasive medical procedures without their consent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_experimentation_in_North_Korea
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Postby Saiwania » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:47 pm

This is no reason for war or minor escalation. It is still obvious to me that North Korea did this to him. He really ought to have known better than to set foot in the DPRK, should've known the risks in doing so. Besides ISIS, it is the real world's closest equivalent to being captured by Orcs. You're in for a world of torment unless you're able to escape or slay them in doing so.
Last edited by Saiwania on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kalinin K-8 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:55 pm

In DPRK's inhumane and completely non-judicial jailing of a US Citizen, which they should have no right in persecuting (they allow these citizens in their country, and unless they break an actual, major law, they should be freely allowed out), who they have effectively returned to the States simply so that they won't have the claim responsibility for the death of a US Citizen due to their treatment (they might blame Otto's future status, which most likely is negative, on US Physicians rather themselves), they have essentially committed a direct act of aggression against the United States. The missile tests by DPRK were indeed threatening, but this is absolutely unacceptable.

The DPRK, most likely, released the US Citizen to prevent them from taking responsibility for the Citizen's death. However, I strongly believe that the US should take immediate and strong action against the nation other than sanctions, in a direct manner much like how the DPRK has done. This is no time to dwaddle around, as clearly DPRK is beginning to overstep its boundaries - much.
NeoOasis wrote:My thoughts remain unchanged. Don't visit a country hostile to anything vaguely American. Don't steal anything while visiting that country. And don't expect to have a good time if you do. I'm finding it a bit hard to find too much sympathy here.

Do we really need to reignite a war in the Korean Penninsula over the stupid actions of some person? I'd rather avoid the deaths of thousands, and economic impact against close allies. Let this serve as a warning... just don't go to North Korea.

Otto had not stolen anything, if at all. I strongly disbelieve his "testimony" about his "stealing" - can we trust what North Korea says? North Korea detaining a foreign citizen for political leverage is blasphemous. North Korea treating the prisoners in a manner that causes one of them to essentially lose consciousness for the rest of their life (extensive brain damage is essentially unrecoverable) is completely and utterly unacceptable. The Korean Peninsula may indeed reignite over this, but this is atrocious enough to restart the war.

Furthermore, countries should at least honor an American's rights in their country with their entrance, and not jail them unless a major, *actual* crime has been committed. DPRK honors none of these.
Last edited by Kalinin K-8 on Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:59 pm

Not shocking at all. Best Korean death prison camps can't be much fun.

Hope the poor guy recovers.
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San Marlindo
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Postby San Marlindo » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:37 am

Kalinin K-8 wrote:In DPRK's inhumane and completely non-judicial jailing of a US Citizen, which they should have no right in persecuting (they allow these citizens in their country, and unless they break an actual, major law, they should be freely allowed out), who they have effectively returned to the States simply so that they won't have the claim responsibility for the death of a US Citizen due to their treatment (they might blame Otto's future status, which most likely is negative, on US Physicians rather themselves), they have essentially committed a direct act of aggression against the United States. The missile tests by DPRK were indeed threatening, but this is absolutely unacceptable.

The DPRK, most likely, released the US Citizen to prevent them from taking responsibility for the Citizen's death. However, I strongly believe that the US should take immediate and strong action against the nation other than sanctions, in a direct manner much like how the DPRK has done. This is no time to dwaddle around, as clearly DPRK is beginning to overstep its boundaries - much.
NeoOasis wrote:My thoughts remain unchanged. Don't visit a country hostile to anything vaguely American. Don't steal anything while visiting that country. And don't expect to have a good time if you do. I'm finding it a bit hard to find too much sympathy here.

Do we really need to reignite a war in the Korean Penninsula over the stupid actions of some person? I'd rather avoid the deaths of thousands, and economic impact against close allies. Let this serve as a warning... just don't go to North Korea.

Otto had not stolen anything, if at all. I strongly disbelieve his "testimony" about his "stealing" - can we trust what North Korea says? North Korea detaining a foreign citizen for political leverage is blasphemous. North Korea treating the prisoners in a manner that causes one of them to essentially lose consciousness for the rest of their life (extensive brain damage is essentially unrecoverable) is completely and utterly unacceptable. The Korean Peninsula may indeed reignite over this, but this is atrocious enough to restart the war.

Furthermore, countries should at least honor an American's rights in their country with their entrance, and not jail them unless a major, *actual* crime has been committed. DPRK honors none of these.


It's not just his testimony.

The North Koreans presented surveillance footage of someone who looked a lot like Otto taking a propaganda poster off a wall in a corridor and walking off with it. Since the footage doesn't indicate any strong emotion or vandalism/damage of the poster, I would assume he wanted it for a souvenir or something, not because he hated the regime so much he couldn't stomach their propaganda and ripped it down.

He probably did steal something in that sense, even if it was just a sheet of paper.

Most Americans wouldn't regard taking a sheet of paper off a bulletin board, or a poster off a wall, as "stealing", especially if there are tons of identical flyers around. In fact in many places it's expected that people will take one.

However North Korean interpretation of what constitutes "stealing" is considerably stricter. A poster is state property. Nobody may violate state property or move it without authorization. And if they do it's clearly theft.
Last edited by San Marlindo on Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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San Marlindo
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Postby San Marlindo » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:45 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Not shocking at all. Best Korean death prison camps can't be much fun.

Hope the poor guy recovers.


Unlikely. It's not just a minor concussion from being coshed in the head, the guy's literally a walking vegetable. Like he's been lobotomized.

I doubt he'll ever be able to speak or feed and bathe himself again.
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The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia
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Postby The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:51 am

I hate to be that guy be he kinda had it coming since he did go to one of the most anti-American nations out there and stole from the nation;s government and he had it coming, why would you think that would end well?
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Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:43 am

Kalinin K-8 wrote:Furthermore, countries should at least honor an American's rights in their country with their entrance, and not jail them unless a major, *actual* crime has been committed. DPRK honors none of these.

American tourists or visitors or government don't get to decide what is a "major, actual crime" in foreign countries. If you don't like the laws of foreign countries to the point that you can't respect them, stay in your own country. I for one think that the apostasy/blasphemy laws of a couple of major US allies are rather unacceptable. Hence I don't go there.
Last edited by Risottia on Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby -Ocelot- » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:59 am

The shit NK gets away with is unbelievable. They beat their citizens to the death regularly and they didn't hesitate on a foreigner either.

Imagine the horrors we'll uncover after the regime's eventual collapse.

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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:24 am

I can only imagine how it could've happened. None of them are pretty
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Postby Esternial » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:25 am

Absolutely horrible.

Why go to NK though.

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Postby Costa Fierro » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:43 am

Esternial wrote:Absolutely horrible.

Why go to NK though.


A sense of morbid fascination, plus North Korea is somewhat like a time capsule, in the sense that it still lives in a Cold War mentality and still has the trappings of a full communist state, even if it may not be as such.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:20 am

Risottia wrote:
Kalinin K-8 wrote:Furthermore, countries should at least honor an American's rights in their country with their entrance, and not jail them unless a major, *actual* crime has been committed. DPRK honors none of these.

American tourists or visitors or government don't get to decide what is a "major, actual crime" in foreign countries. If you don't like the laws of foreign countries to the point that you can't respect them, stay in your own country. I for one think that the apostasy/blasphemy laws of a couple of major US allies are rather unacceptable. Hence I don't go there.

Like ireland, I understand

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... -blasphemy

Jokes aside, you are right, you go to a foreign country you have to obey their laws.
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Postby AiliailiA » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:23 am

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I can only imagine how it could've happened. None of them are pretty


The same thing can happen to prisoners in any nation's prison. It can happen to patients in a hospital, it could even happen to someone in their own home. It's not necessarily a result of prison brutality, of torture, or of some experimental brain surgery.

Considering the DPRK could have just shot Otto Smallbier in the back and said he was attempting to escape prison, and considering this is worse for them (due exactly to the kind of speculation it invites), I'm inclined to think it genuinely was a medical accident and the worst it says about the DPRK is that they don't provide decent healthcare to prisoners (something in which the DPRK is by no means alone).
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Postby Frank Zipper » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:43 am

AiliailiA wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I can only imagine how it could've happened. None of them are pretty


The same thing can happen to prisoners in any nation's prison. It can happen to patients in a hospital, it could even happen to someone in their own home. It's not necessarily a result of prison brutality, of torture, or of some experimental brain surgery.

Considering the DPRK could have just shot Otto Smallbier in the back and said he was attempting to escape prison, and considering this is worse for them (due exactly to the kind of speculation it invites), I'm inclined to think it genuinely was a medical accident and the worst it says about the DPRK is that they don't provide decent healthcare to prisoners (something in which the DPRK is by no means alone).


Warmbier - just think of England.
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AiliailiA
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Postby AiliailiA » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:01 am

Frank Zipper wrote:
AiliailiA wrote:
The same thing can happen to prisoners in any nation's prison. It can happen to patients in a hospital, it could even happen to someone in their own home. It's not necessarily a result of prison brutality, of torture, or of some experimental brain surgery.

Considering the DPRK could have just shot Otto Smallbier in the back and said he was attempting to escape prison, and considering this is worse for them (due exactly to the kind of speculation it invites), I'm inclined to think it genuinely was a medical accident and the worst it says about the DPRK is that they don't provide decent healthcare to prisoners (something in which the DPRK is by no means alone).


Warmbier - just think of England.


If we're going to make sick jokes, consider that a bier is an actual thing not just a mis-spelling of beer. It's a hand carriage for the dead, used with a coffin or in place of a coffin.

Otto Warmcoffin. Hilarious, isn't it?
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Postby Frank Zipper » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:06 am

AiliailiA wrote:
Frank Zipper wrote:


Warmbier - just think of England.


If we're going to make sick jokes, consider that a bier is an actual thing not just a mis-spelling of beer. It's a hand carriage for the dead, used with a coffin or in place of a coffin.

Otto Warmcoffin. Hilarious, isn't it?


It wasn't meant as a joke. Just a hint on how to get his name right.
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