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Judge allows white Alabama town to return to segregation

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Ceresnia
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Judge allows white Alabama town to return to segregation

Postby Ceresnia » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:27 pm

Sources: The Root / Wahington Post (article about previous events surrounding segregation)

A judge told a mostly white suburb near one of the blackest cities in the country that—after reviewing all of the facts—she believed the town’s request to separate itself was motivated by race. She stressed that the move could encourage feelings of racial inferiority among the district’s black students. The judge chastised the white citizens for trying to minimize school desegregation laws. Then, with a pound of her gavel, she allowed them to do it anyway.

Just north of Birmingham, Ala., sits the tiny suburb of Gardendale. While Birmingham’s 74 percent black population ranks it as America’s fourth-blackest city, Gardendale’s population is 88 percent white. Gardendale’s median family income is more than double that of Birmingham, too, giving the small town a lucrative tax base. In recent years, most of Birmingham’s affluent suburbs have left the struggling Jefferson County Schools’ system to form smaller districts, but until now, a judge had never examined the racial reasons and implications as closely, according to a report by the Washington Post.

U.S. District Judge Madeline Haikala heard the case of Jefferson County Board of Education v. Gardendale City Board of Education and issued an extensive, wide-ranging ruling Wednesday. The case was not overly complex and was mostly black vs. white. The white residents of Gardendale wanted to break away from the county’s schools, creating a new district that reflected the demographics of the city. The parents of black students in Gardendale’s schools said the white parents just wanted to get rid of the schools’ black students.

In her 190-page ruling, Haikala admitted that Gardendale City’s motivations were based on race and inequality. She pointed to a Facebook group with thinly veiled racist messages and wrote about flyers that listed “some of the best” white schools that had already left Jefferson County Schools alongside a list of “bad” racially mixed schools, with a white child asking, “Which one will you choose?” The report noted that the flyers delivered an “unambiguous message of inferiority.” The ruling reprimanded the parents for their continued reference to “Smithfield kids” (a reference to a mostly black section of Jefferson County whose children attend Gardendale schools) in a degrading manner.

The ruling extensively referenced desegregation cases and how they impacted her ruling. The judge explicitly admitted that race seemed to be Gardendale’s primary motivation, finding such to be worse than some of the desegregations of the civil rights era, writing:

Given these findings, the Court would be within its discretion if it were simply to deny Gardendale’s motion to separate. Were it not for a number of practical considerations, the Court would do just that. As was the case in Stout II, though, some of the circumstances surrounding Gardendale’s attempt to separate are deplorable ...

Deplorable. But even though she saw that Gardendale’s motives were based on the idea that the school district’s black students were inferior; even though she noted that it would set back the county’s desegregation efforts to make schools equal; and even though it would negatively impact the black students who already attend Gardendale schools, she allowed Gardendale to move forward anyway.

“It’s hard to square,” said Monique Lin-Luse, an NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund lawyer who represented black parents.

No one could figure it out. However, the Gardendale parents were ecstatic.

“We know that the community is anxious and ready to achieve its goal of a locally led public school system. We are, too,” said Chris Segroves, the new board’s president.

There are no quotes from the black students who will all have to attend new schools, knowing it is only because of the color of their skin.


Honestly I think this is just inhumane and a step in the wrong direction. Just because a Facebook group posted some racist comments, she is now ruling the whole town white supremacist against their will. It seems some southerners will never learn from their mistakes and degrade themselves to the same level they were at when they owned slaves. The fact that this is near communities populated by a majority of black people is the most striking aspect, meaning a potential local race war could be imminent if the white population of Gardendale took action against the African-American citizens. The fact black children will have to find new schools just because of the color of their skin is also one of the most shocking I have heard in recent months. Is this what America should be? An apartheid-torn entity? It's hard to think how many black activists are rolling in their graves. Even though I consider myself right-leaning, this is vile and I will not support it. It just should not happen.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:28 pm

Didn't we already have this discussion?
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:29 pm

Ever get that feeling of deja vu?

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Postby USS Monitor » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:32 pm

Thermodolia wrote:Didn't we already have this discussion?


We did, but the old thread has been dead for a while, so I think we can have a new one.
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Postby Vince Vaughn » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:30 pm

Who cares? It was the will of the people of the suburb to incorporate into their own municipality. You can't force them to be part of a town they don't want to be part of.

Besides, most white people already subconsciously live like this when they talk about "wanting to live where the good schools are".
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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:41 pm

This kind of divisiveness is a disservice to the union.
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Postby Liriena » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:44 pm

Well, that's not acceptable.

Vince Vaughn wrote:Who cares? It was the will of the people of the suburb to incorporate into their own municipality. You can't force them to be part of a town they don't want to be part of.

Besides, most white people already subconsciously live like this when they talk about "wanting to live where the good schools are".

"Racial segregation is okay because a lot of it is subconscious anyway"?
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:48 pm

Thermodolia wrote:Didn't we already have this discussion?


We did, and the courts logic makes sense. The town will still be complying with the desegregation order.
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Vince Vaughn
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Postby Vince Vaughn » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:49 pm

Liriena wrote:Well, that's not acceptable.

Vince Vaughn wrote:Who cares? It was the will of the people of the suburb to incorporate into their own municipality. You can't force them to be part of a town they don't want to be part of.

Besides, most white people already subconsciously live like this when they talk about "wanting to live where the good schools are".

"Racial segregation is okay because a lot of it is subconscious anyway"?


No, but people are allowed to form their own towns as they see fit. They have not broken any laws here and collectively decided this separation was in their best interest.
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Postby Liriena » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:54 pm

Vince Vaughn wrote:
Liriena wrote:Well, that's not acceptable.


"Racial segregation is okay because a lot of it is subconscious anyway"?


No, but people are allowed to form their own towns as they see fit. They have not broken any laws here and collectively decided this separation was in their best interest.

The legality of it has been established, sure, but legality is not the be sole measure of fairness.
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Vince Vaughn
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Postby Vince Vaughn » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:54 pm

Liriena wrote:
Vince Vaughn wrote:
No, but people are allowed to form their own towns as they see fit. They have not broken any laws here and collectively decided this separation was in their best interest.

The legality of it has been established, sure, but legality is not the be sole measure of fairness.


What's unfair about it? Should these people have their democratic rights to incorporate revoked because you disagree with their motives?
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Postby Liriena » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:56 pm

Vince Vaughn wrote:
Liriena wrote:The legality of it has been established, sure, but legality is not the be sole measure of fairness.


What's unfair about it? Should these people have their democratic rights to incorporate revoked because you disagree with their motives?

In my opinion, yes. A good society should not coddle racial prejudice.
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:57 pm

Vince Vaughn wrote:
Liriena wrote:The legality of it has been established, sure, but legality is not the be sole measure of fairness.


What's unfair about it? Should these people have their democratic rights to incorporate revoked because you disagree with their motives?

I fear that that was the purpose of desegregation. Otherwise, white people will just move further away as seen in Milwaukee and Detroit.
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Postby Sareva » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:00 pm

This marks the next step towards the end of the United States of America. Or it's just Alabama being ridiculously racist Alabama.
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Postby Vince Vaughn » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:00 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Vince Vaughn wrote:
What's unfair about it? Should these people have their democratic rights to incorporate revoked because you disagree with their motives?

I fear that that was the purpose of desegregation. Otherwise, white people will just move further away as seen in Milwaukee and Detroit.


Yeah, it's called white flight. Do you want to impose internal restrictions on movement?
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Postby Vince Vaughn » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:01 pm

Liriena wrote:
Vince Vaughn wrote:
What's unfair about it? Should these people have their democratic rights to incorporate revoked because you disagree with their motives?

In my opinion, yes. A good society should not coddle racial prejudice.


A good society should let people live as they see fit within the scope of the law.

Also, that's very authoritarian.
Last edited by Vince Vaughn on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Minzerland II » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:03 pm

Liriena wrote:Well, that's not acceptable.

Vince Vaughn wrote:Who cares? It was the will of the people of the suburb to incorporate into their own municipality. You can't force them to be part of a town they don't want to be part of.

Besides, most white people already subconsciously live like this when they talk about "wanting to live where the good schools are".

"Racial segregation is okay because a lot of it is subconscious anyway"?

It's optional, not mandatory? And this is an outrage because...?

I mean, I strongly believe that, as a rule of thumb, unity and interaction should be encouraged, so the idea of people segregating themselves doesn't excite me in the least. However, I can't speak for these particular people and what they might have experienced, and they are well within their rights to request this sort of arrangement.
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Postby AiliailiA » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:55 pm

Vince Vaughn wrote:Who cares? It was the will of the people of the suburb to incorporate into their own municipality. You can't force them to be part of a town they don't want to be part of.

Besides, most white people already subconsciously live like this when they talk about "wanting to live where the good schools are".


Not just white people, most parents would prefer to move where the good schools are. Most can't afford to.

And race aside, that's the problem. K-12 schools should not be funded (at all) from local taxes, they should be funded by State and/or Federal government, and that's whether or not you want to keep elected school boards to administer schools on that local level.
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Postby USS Monitor » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:50 pm

Liriena wrote:
Vince Vaughn wrote:
No, but people are allowed to form their own towns as they see fit. They have not broken any laws here and collectively decided this separation was in their best interest.

The legality of it has been established, sure, but legality is not the be sole measure of fairness.


Legality should be the basis for court rulings.
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Postby Liriena » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:52 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Liriena wrote:The legality of it has been established, sure, but legality is not the be sole measure of fairness.


Legality should be the basis for court rulings.

Yes.
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Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:33 am

USS Monitor wrote:
Liriena wrote:The legality of it has been established, sure, but legality is not the be sole measure of fairness.


Legality should be the basis for court rulings.

Now all we need is a judge to rule that you should sail upstream the Black Warrior River and kick some good sense into the locals.
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:27 am

I thought last time this came up that we established that it wasn't actually segregation because despite what the judge thought the people bringing the case said it wasn't segregation.
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Postby AiliailiA » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:52 am

Vassenor wrote:I thought last time this came up that we established that it wasn't actually segregation because despite what the judge thought the people bringing the case said it wasn't segregation.


Eh? The plaintiffs said it wasn't?
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Postby Struberria » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:03 am

Christ, this is why I'm Liberal, when was the last time you heard of a modern day racist Liberal? This sickens me to my stomach, really does. The song American Idiot By Green Day comes to mind here, showing how utterly ridiculous and hateful the Right Wing can be, I'm not saying all right wingers are this way, hell i know they aren't because i know who Ben Carson is, but this just goes to show how terrible hate can be. Though i am pacifist i really wanna kick someone in the teeth for this. I saw a real Einstein say " white people already subconsciously live like this when they talk about "wanting to live where the good schools are"." there are bad white neighborhoods. Now i know many people will be triggered, so I am prepared.
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:05 am

AiliailiA wrote:
Vassenor wrote:I thought last time this came up that we established that it wasn't actually segregation because despite what the judge thought the people bringing the case said it wasn't segregation.


Eh? The plaintiffs said it wasn't?


The people trying to set up the new school district.
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