US Representative Shot

[I didnt vote for Trump]

So are terrorist attacks and yet somehow we're blowing shit up in the middle east, so where's your line drawn? Are Muslim murderers somehow worse or are you just more concerned about losing your hobby than a few dozen people dying every year?

Id be fine with that margin. 36 people dead a year from guns? That's not bad at all

Wow, 36 people dead in senseless and wholly avoidable circumstances and that's "not bad".
That's really fucked up, man.

[I didnt vote for Trump]

So are terrorist attacks and yet somehow we're blowing shit up in the middle east, so where's your line drawn? Are Muslim murderers somehow worse or are you just more concerned about losing your hobby than a few dozen people dying every year?

I don't care about terror attacks.

Of course you don't

[Gallia-]

Id be fine with that margin. 36 people dead a year from guns? That's not bad at all

Wow, 36 people dead in senseless and wholly avoidable circumstances and that's "not bad".
That's really fucked up, man.

No, that's normal.

The cost of those 36 people is less than the cost of implementing strict gun controls.

[Zanera]

I live in Britain, for some reason i'm not seeing any BBC reports

Maybe BBC is kind of focusing on a freak building accident you think?

Is on their website, at least. Main article on main page seemed to be the freak building fire, though. Prolly covering that more, yes.

[Thermodolia]

Id be fine with that margin. 36 people dead a year from guns? That's not bad at all

Wow, 36 people dead in senseless and wholly avoidable circumstances and that's "not bad".
That's really fucked up, man.

36 out of 330 million is 0.000011%. That's definitely within acceptable margins

[I didnt vote for Trump]

Wow, 36 people dead in senseless and wholly avoidable circumstances and that's "not bad".
That's really fucked up, man.

No, that's normal.

The cost of those 36 people is less than the cost of implementing strict gun controls.

Lives aren't measured in dollars.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I don't care about terror attacks.

Of course you don't

Yeah, because frankly none of those things are big problems. Random lightning strikes kill about the same number of Americans as random spree shootings or terror attacks or what have you.

It's not big enough for me to care about.

[Thermodolia]

Of course you don't

Yeah, because frankly none of those things are big problems. Random lightning strikes kill about the same number of Americans as random spree shootings or terror attacks or what have you.

It's not big enough for me to care about.

Car wrecks kill more than all of those combined, yet no one is saying that we should ban cars.

[Telconi]

No, that's normal.

The cost of those 36 people is less than the cost of implementing strict gun controls.

Lives aren't measured in dollars.

They absolutely are. Otherwise every person would have a police escort.

[Gallia-]

No, that's normal.

The cost of those 36 people is less than the cost of implementing strict gun controls.

Lives aren't measured in dollars.

They literally are.

Just because you don't know how public policy works doesn't mean you get a free pass to lie. People will not be willing to give up all their wealth, especially since protection of life is asymptotic. Not that it would help, you will never have enough money to save everyone, so you have to draw a line somewhere.

Typically, such lines are drawn on roads, because V* is most commonly used in traffic policy.

Yeah, because frankly none of those things are big problems. Random lightning strikes kill about the same number of Americans as random spree shootings or terror attacks or what have you.

It's not big enough for me to care about.

Car wrecks kill more than all of those combined, yet no one is saying that we should ban cars.

Cars have an obvious utility. What utility do firearms offer, outside of recreational amusement? Nothing, really.

If fishing rods or kites killed as many people as guns, I think we would discuss controlling fishing rods or kites, because their legal uses are mostly recreational. Although, TBF, the fishing rod lobby would probably be even more powerful than the gun lobby, but whatever. Firearms don't really have any societal utility. They don't add value to people who own them, unlike a car which has a very noticeable and quantifiable modifier on the labour productivity of a person who possesses a functional one.

[Donut section]

No, that's normal.

The cost of those 36 people is less than the cost of implementing strict gun controls.

Lives aren't measured in dollars.

Everything is measured in dollars.

[Puzikas]

Two words: Femoral. Artery.

And decidedly different hydrostatic shock profile from a .223 round. i wouldbt want to be shot with either, but beggars be choosers, I'd much rather be plinked by a .223 round than turned into soup on the inside by a 7.62x39mm round.

Hydrostatic shock is a remote wound effect brought on by the displacement and discontinuation of fluid medium in the human body. This discontinuation causes remote wounding effects at areas away from the sight of impact, usually observed in organ tissues and nerve damage.
It is not a wound profile, it describes an additional method by which neurogenic or cardiogenic shock occurs-along with a number of other injuries. And any projectile penetrating the human body with a velocity greater than 350m/s generally will be able to create the aformentioned hydrostatic effect.
And there is no singular wound profile for .223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATO. There's dozens of loads by dozens of ammunition companies-there is only a line of best fit, and there's not even a singular one of those as it relies on fragmentation and deformation to create it's wound cavity, which means wounds are rarely equalateral.

5.56x45mm NATOs M855s normal wound cavity produced from the 20" barrel of the M16A2/A4 is something like 122cm³

The hospital says he's in critical condition.

It's the pelvis, and while it would be painful as heck, it usually should not be fatal unless blood loss or other complications. But it was also a big slug that hit him, an sks round, which is similar if not identicle to the AK-47 round, and those are powerful.

They are exactly the same, the SKS just has a slightly higher muzzle velocity.

It's the pelvis, and while it would be painful as heck, it usually should not be fatal unless blood loss or other complications. But it was also a big slug that hit him, an sks round, which is similar if not identicle to the AK-47 round, and those are powerful.

It is identical to the AK round, rifles are built around the cartridge, not the other way around.

An SKS is basically an AWB-compliant AK from the outside.

"Critical" and "life-threatening" aren't the same thing. He's been shot in the general body mass, yes, it's a critical injury. Is he dying? Probably not, let's hope.

Critical is life threatening by US standards usually.

When clinically used, that indicates to me that vital signs are not stable, the the patient usually requires a machine for resperation to occur, and there's usually Brady or tachycardia with thready or unobtainable radial pulse, the BP is usually narrowed and generally low, and they normally are not particularly high on the GCS. Probably a 4-8, maybe a 9.


The terms are all terrible but necessary because the public at large has no idea what any of those terms mean. You do because you hang around in the miltech threads and I'm about 90% sure I've sperged on them before, and also you're well educated, but point being a patient who is "critical but stable" is basically a patient who is in critical condition, and will remain that way for the considerable future and is being sustained on machines or by act of science/god. We do not use the term "stable" because it's generally misleading though. I don't think I have ever used the term "stable" for a patient in that regard, usually I only use it after surgeries to describe their recovery when it's not a life saving interventions, and even then I use it sparingly.

The term also changes hospital to hospital. Example: if you are in my hospital with a GSW to the pelvic region, and your BP is 12-15 mmHg outside of a "normal" range and your GCS is less than 13, you are in critical condition. If you are in that same condition at another hospital who processes you through the ED instead of the trauma pool in the ED, you are "serious". If you are flown in by helicopter, you are "critical", regardless of your actual condition (we have a pulmonary PT who used to come twice a week from ~220mi away by helicopter-for treatment and assessment. Never coded, never went outside their normal range of vitals)

[Thermodolia]

Ok so I did some research. The total number of gun related deaths in 2010 was just under 32,000 which comes out to 0.0097% of 330 million.

[Gallia-]

Ok so I did some research. The total number of gun related deaths in 2010 was just under 32,000 which comes out to 0.0097% of 330 million.

Most of these are suicides, though.

The number of homicides is closer to 8,600 on average per year.

Except in the 90s when it got up to like double that.

[Thermodolia]

Ok so I did some research. The total number of gun related deaths in 2010 was just under 32,000 which comes out to 0.0097% of 330 million.

Most of these are suicides, though.

The number of homicides is closer to 8,600 on average per year.

Except in the 90s when it got up to like double that.

True or they are accidentally self inflicted wounds.

[Puzikas]

No, the DOJ records suicides with firearms as gun deaths per the CDCs mandate.

Homicides in 2013 were 11,208 by firearm; .4% of the total 2,596,993 deaths recoded in 2013.

E: no, I'm wrong and I read the data wrong. 11,208 people were killed by firearm, 8,855 were homicide with firearm (2012) and the rest were legal self defense or other

[Nulla Bellum]

And decidedly different hydrostatic shock profile from a .223 round. i wouldbt want to be shot with either, but beggars be choosers, I'd much rather be plinked by a .223 round than turned into soup on the inside by a 7.62x39mm round.

Hydrostatic shock is a remote wound effect brought on by the displacement and discontinuation of fluid medium in the human body. This discontinuation causes remote wounding effects at areas away from the sight of impact, usually observed in organ tissues and nerve damage.
It is not a wound profile, it describes an additional method by which neurogenic or cardiogenic shock occurs-along with a number of other injuries. And any projectile penetrating the human body with a velocity greater than 350m/s generally will be able to create the aformentioned hydrostatic effect.
And there is no singular wound profile for .223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATO. There's dozens of loads by dozens of ammunition companies-there is only a line of best fit, and there's not even a singular one of those as it relies on fragmentation and deformation to create it's wound cavity, which means wounds are rarely equalateral.

5.56x45mm NATOs M855s normal wound cavity produced from the 20" barrel of the M16A2/A4 is something like 122cm³[/quote]

Long story short, getting shot with a SKS round is not something you can learn to enjoy.

[Fartsniffage]

Hydrostatic shock is a remote wound effect brought on by the displacement and discontinuation of fluid medium in the human body. This discontinuation causes remote wounding effects at areas away from the sight of impact, usually observed in organ tissues and nerve damage.
It is not a wound profile, it describes an additional method by which neurogenic or cardiogenic shock occurs-along with a number of other injuries. And any projectile penetrating the human body with a velocity greater than 350m/s generally will be able to create the aformentioned hydrostatic effect.
And there is no singular wound profile for .223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATO. There's dozens of loads by dozens of ammunition companies-there is only a line of best fit, and there's not even a singular one of those as it relies on fragmentation and deformation to create it's wound cavity, which means wounds are rarely equalateral.

5.56x45mm NATOs M855s normal wound cavity produced from the 20" barrel of the M16A2/A4 is something like 122cm³

Long story short, getting shot with a SKS round is not something you can learn to enjoy.

But what if you started out with .22lr and then just worked your way up? Build an immunity and all that....

[Thermodolia]

Representative Scalise isn't out of the woods yet. He's still in critical condition and needs more surgeries.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/politics/ ... index.html

[Nulla Bellum]

Hydrostatic shock is a remote wound effect brought on by the displacement and discontinuation of fluid medium in the human body. This discontinuation causes remote wounding effects at areas away from the sight of impact, usually observed in organ tissues and nerve damage.
It is not a wound profile, it describes an additional method by which neurogenic or cardiogenic shock occurs-along with a number of other injuries. And any projectile penetrating the human body with a velocity greater than 350m/s generally will be able to create the aformentioned hydrostatic effect.
And there is no singular wound profile for .223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATO. There's dozens of loads by dozens of ammunition companies-there is only a line of best fit, and there's not even a singular one of those as it relies on fragmentation and deformation to create it's wound cavity, which means wounds are rarely equalateral.

5.56x45mm NATOs M855s normal wound cavity produced from the 20" barrel of the M16A2/A4 is something like 122cm³

Long story short, getting shot with a SKS round is not something you can learn to enjoy.

But what if you started out with .22lr and then just worked your way up? Build an immunity and all that....

I gave up when I shattered my big toe with a paintball round.

[Gallia-]

Hydrostatic shock is a remote wound effect brought on by the displacement and discontinuation of fluid medium in the human body. This discontinuation causes remote wounding effects at areas away from the sight of impact, usually observed in organ tissues and nerve damage.
It is not a wound profile, it describes an additional method by which neurogenic or cardiogenic shock occurs-along with a number of other injuries. And any projectile penetrating the human body with a velocity greater than 350m/s generally will be able to create the aformentioned hydrostatic effect.
And there is no singular wound profile for .223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATO. There's dozens of loads by dozens of ammunition companies-there is only a line of best fit, and there's not even a singular one of those as it relies on fragmentation and deformation to create it's wound cavity, which means wounds are rarely equalateral.

5.56x45mm NATOs M855s normal wound cavity produced from the 20" barrel of the M16A2/A4 is something like 122cm³

Long story short, getting shot with a SKS round is not something you can learn to enjoy.

But what if you started out with .22lr and then just worked your way up? Build an immunity and all that....

It works for wild game animals, if you listen to hunters.

[Fartsniffage]

But what if you started out with .22lr and then just worked your way up? Build an immunity and all that....

It works for wild game animals, if you listen to hunters.

I'm not sure I'd call a person who shoots animals with increasingly larger rounds just to see what happens a hunter. A bit of a cunt, perhaps. But not a hunter.

[Greed and Death]

It works for wild game animals, if you listen to hunters.

I'm not sure I'd call a person who shoots animals with increasingly larger rounds just to see what happens a hunter. A bit of a cunt, perhaps. But not a hunter.

Or a scientist seeking to make bullet proof bears with guns.

[The Black Forrest]

Wow, 36 people dead in senseless and wholly avoidable circumstances and that's "not bad".
That's really fucked up, man.

36 out of 330 million is 0.000011%. That's definitely within acceptable margins

UNless you are one of them.

[Gallia-]

It works for wild game animals, if you listen to hunters.

I'm not sure I'd call a person who shoots animals with increasingly larger rounds just to see what happens a hunter. A bit of a cunt, perhaps. But not a hunter.

It happens over generational timespan. You have to let the ones that survive breed and produce hardier specimens, although I suppose it's not by choice. Which is why approximately every 20 years there's another twentieth of an inch being added to the then popular "deer caliber". I suspect that it's accurate to say that hunters add a thou every 6 weeks.

First it was .220 Swift. Then it was .243 Winchester. Then .300 Winchester Magnum. Then .356 Winchester. Then .416 Remington. Now we have the ".450 Bushmaster".

http://shwat.com/the-450-bushmaster-a-b ... n-blaster/

Bambi's got swole af apparently.