US Representative Shot

[The American Commonwealth]

This shooting was symptomatic of the increasingly violent and partisan nature of the radical left in this country.

Too rich. For the most far-right country in the West, governed by the most far-right party in the West, to start talking about the danger and violence of the "radical left", it is simply too ironic, life is too twisted.

seeing how the most far right wing policies most conservatives want in the U.S are live-and-let-live, flat taxation, a sovereign, self-defending Isreal, etc., I can see where you think we're evil, Jew-murdering, black-hating Neo-Nazis.

[Olerand]

Too rich. For the most far-right country in the West, governed by the most far-right party in the West, to start talking about the danger and violence of the "radical left", it is simply too ironic, life is too twisted.

The most far right wing policies most conservatives want in the U.S are live-and-let-live, flat taxation, a sovereign, self-defending Isreal, etc., I can see where you think we're evil, Jew-murdering, black-hating Neo-Nazis.

Which I understand in a far-right country like America these are "regular" right-wing beliefs... But they're not. They're very far-right.
And you and I both know that libertarians are far from being the furthest right faction in the Republican party today, where ethnonationalism and militant religio-ideological beliefs have found a home.

[Geilinor]

Too rich. For the most far-right country in the West, governed by the most far-right party in the West, to start talking about the danger and violence of the "radical left", it is simply too ironic, life is too twisted.

seeing how the most far right wing policies most conservatives want in the U.S are live-and-let-live, flat taxation, a sovereign, self-defending Isreal, etc., I can see where you think we're evil, Jew-murdering, black-hating Neo-Nazis.

Most conservatives don't support a flat tax. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/29/even-republicans-think-the-rich-arent-paying-their-fair-share-in-taxes-but/?utm_term=.cbd292c101fe

[Nulla Bellum]

Aw pookie, I was hoping you were going to challenge my small sampling of the list of leftists that have attacked / killed American elected figures so you can explain to us how Italian anarchists and self-proclaimed Soviet communists are really right-wing.

Stalin is right of me and I consider him left-wing.

Reading is for leftists, it seems.

Apparently your illiteracy missed the leftists that have already come in and kicked your fallacy where it hurts.

[The American Commonwealth]

The most far right wing policies most conservatives want in the U.S are live-and-let-live, flat taxation, a sovereign, self-defending Isreal, etc., I can see where you think we're evil, Jew-murdering, black-hating Neo-Nazis.

Which I understand in a far-right country like America these are "regular" right-wing beliefs... But they're not. They're very far-right.
And you and I both know that libertarians are far from being the furthest right faction in the Republican party today, where ethnonationalism and militant religio-ideological beliefs have found a home.

Well, I guess by your definition of the right being right of Marx, we are Nazi Germany. By the rest of the world's definition of the right, we're a center-right country.

[Ifreann]

Lol. More people not getting it.

Come on. Don't you want to join the ranks of those who get it but pretend they don't?

I'm guessing your definition of "getting it" is warped beyond belief so, no, not really.

Not at all citizen. Getting it. Understanding it. Comprehending the happenings that are afoot.

Savvy?

---

Why are you whining about substance when you've said nothing substantive yourself?

Again, I'm not sure why I'm expected to respond to shit-post tier posts with substance. I need something to respond to, and the generic whining about me being left-wing do not qualify.

No. Your warped, skewed definitions of left-wing and right-wing got exposed.

Oh shit, Ifreann. Lefties exposed yet again.

By the beard of Marx.

---

Lol. More people not getting it.

Come on. Don't you want to join the ranks of those who get it but pretend they don't?

What if I don't get it?!

By the beard of Marx.

---

I mean, if you believe that, then I would suggest you get to posting something of substance that I can reply to. Go ahead, help a brotha out and give me something pertaining to the thread worthwhile.

"Help a brotha out"? What is this? Straight Outta Compton? But fine.

*ahem*

This shooting was symptomatic of the increasingly violent and partisan nature of the radical left in this country.

There, run with it or agree. Doesn't matter much to me.

Oh no Ifreann, I've disappointed him. So much for the tolerant left.

I think he went to sleep.

Sleep is for the weak.

[Olerand]

Which I understand in a far-right country like America these are "regular" right-wing beliefs... But they're not. They're very far-right.
And you and I both know that libertarians are far from being the furthest right faction in the Republican party today, where ethnonationalism and militant religio-ideological beliefs have found a home.

Well, I guess by your definition of the right being right of Marx, we are Nazi Germany. By the rest of the world's definition of the right, we're a center-right country.

No, my definition of the right is very traditional. In fact, my nation invented the right. By all measures, you are, as a nation, and as a governing party, the furthest right.

The fact that you claim to be a "center-right" nation is an act of amazing national disingenuous delusion and a false charade propped up only by American society's aggressive parochialism and provincial attitudes.

No country where a poor man or woman can die of a curable disease because they cannot afford treatment is a "center-right" country. It is not a "center-right" belief, by any other developed nation's standards, to let those people die. So... "Center-right" America... I don't know about all of that.

[The American Commonwealth]

Well, I guess by your definition of the right being right of Marx, we are Nazi Germany. By the rest of the world's definition of the right, we're a center-right country.

No, my definition of the right is very traditional. In fact, my nation invented the right. By all measures, you are, as a nation, and as a governing party, the furthest right.

Rather than randomly claiming we're Mussolini's goons, please explain yourself.

[Mavorpen]

The gentleman who perpetrated this shooting was a Bernie Sanders partisan, yes.

Uh...okay. What part of my post was this a response to, exactly? The partisan part of my post was about "radical leftists" in general, not the perpetrator.

You still haven't been able to grasp the fact that I never called him a Stalinist. But please, keep chipping away at that strawman. It really is all you're capable of.

When did I say that you called him a Stalinist?

Reading is for leftists, it seems.

Apparently your illiteracy missed the leftists that have already come in and kicked your fallacy where it hurts.

Still using that word you don't understand, I see.

[Olerand]

No, my definition of the right is very traditional. In fact, my nation invented the right. By all measures, you are, as a nation, and as a governing party, the furthest right.

Rather than randomly claiming we're Mussolini's goons, please explain yourself.

As per my edit:
The fact that you claim to be a "center-right" nation is an act of amazing national disingenuous delusion and a false charade propped up only by American society's aggressive parochialism and provincial attitudes.

No country where a poor man or woman can die of a curable disease because they cannot afford treatment is a "center-right" country. It is not a "center-right" belief, by any other developed nation's standards, to let those people die. So... "Center-right" America... I don't know about all of that.

Again, nothing about American "conservatism" even approaches the center. The difference between the Christian Democrats of Germany, the Republicans of France, and even nowadays the Conservatives of Britain on one side and the Republicans of America on the other is so far these days that it is hard to even draw a comparison.

[Nulla Bellum]

The gentleman who perpetrated this shooting was a Bernie Sanders partisan, yes.

Uh...okay. What part of my post was this a response to, exactly? The partisan part of my post was about "radical leftists" in general, not the perpetrator.

You still haven't been able to grasp the fact that I never called him a Stalinist. But please, keep chipping away at that strawman. It really is all you're capable of.

When did I say that you called him a Stalinist?

Apparently your illiteracy missed the leftists that have already come in and kicked your fallacy where it hurts.

Still using that word you don't understand, I see.

Your No True Leftist fallacy isn't redeeming itself with repetition. I'm sorry you feel the Bernie Sanders supporter didn't kill enough Kulaks to your liking.

[Mavorpen]

Your No True Leftist fallacy isn't redeeming itself with repetition. I'm sorry you feel the Bernie Sanders supporter didn't kill enough Kulaks to your liking.

It must be nice for you to live a life where you revel in not knowing with a No True Scotsman is.

[Cannot think of a name]

Uh...okay. What part of my post was this a response to, exactly? The partisan part of my post was about "radical leftists" in general, not the perpetrator.

When did I say that you called him a Stalinist?

Still using that word you don't understand, I see.

Your No True Leftist fallacy isn't redeeming itself with repetition. I'm sorry you feel the Bernie Sanders supporter didn't kill enough Kulaks to your liking.

Kiiiiiiiiiiiiss.

[Mavorpen]

Your No True Leftist fallacy isn't redeeming itself with repetition. I'm sorry you feel the Bernie Sanders supporter didn't kill enough Kulaks to your liking.

Kiiiiiiiiiiiiss.

No date first?

[Nulla Bellum]

Your No True Leftist fallacy isn't redeeming itself with repetition. I'm sorry you feel the Bernie Sanders supporter didn't kill enough Kulaks to your liking.

It must be nice for you to live a life where you revel in not knowing with a No True Scotsman is.

And.... he's back up emphasizing that he's full of air. A most polite boxing clown.

[The American Commonwealth]

Well, I guess by your definition of the right being right of Marx, we are Nazi Germany. By the rest of the world's definition of the right, we're a center-right country.

No, my definition of the right is very traditional. In fact, my nation invented the right. By all measures, you are, as a nation, and as a governing party, the furthest right.

The fact that you claim to be a "center-right" nation is an act of amazing national disingenuous delusion and a false charade propped up only by American society's aggressive parochialism and provincial attitudes.

No country where a poor man or woman can die of a curable disease because they cannot afford treatment is a "center-right" country. It is not a "center-right" belief, by any other developed nation's standards, to let those people die. So... "Center-right" America... I don't know about all of that.

My first thought: "My God, I'm dealing with an idiot."

My second thought: "No. He's just ignorant."

That isn't at all what the United States does. Look, I understand you hate the U.S despite us saving your asses twice but to think or say the United States is letting people die because we don't care about the poor is absolutely ludicrous. Obamacare, the policy causing what you are describing, is being actively fought against by the Republican Party, the party fighting for a policy to drop the costs of good healthcare for the poor instead of piss-poor healthcare for free. Hell, a very large portion of the poor in the U.S. voted for Donald Trump for that very reason. So to say we hate the poor is just a plain lie.

[Mavorpen]

It must be nice for you to live a life where you revel in not knowing with a No True Scotsman is.

And.... he's back up emphasizing that he's full of air. A most polite boxing clown.

Are you just now realizing what I've been saying for the past few posts?

[Olerand]

No, my definition of the right is very traditional. In fact, my nation invented the right. By all measures, you are, as a nation, and as a governing party, the furthest right.

The fact that you claim to be a "center-right" nation is an act of amazing national disingenuous delusion and a false charade propped up only by American society's aggressive parochialism and provincial attitudes.

No country where a poor man or woman can die of a curable disease because they cannot afford treatment is a "center-right" country. It is not a "center-right" belief, by any other developed nation's standards, to let those people die. So... "Center-right" America... I don't know about all of that.

My first thought: "My God, I'm dealing with an idiot."

My second thought: "No. He's just ignorant."

That isn't at all what the United States does. Look, I understand you hate the U.S despite us saving your asses twice but to think or say the United States is letting people die because we don't care about the poor is absolutely ludicrous. Obamacare, the policy causing what you are describing, is being actively fought against by the Republican Party, the party fighting for a policy to drop the costs of good healthcare for the poor instead of piss-poor healthcare for free. Hell, a very large portion of the poor in the U.S. voted for Donald Trump for that very reason. So to say we hate the poor is just a plain lie.

But you do though. How many Americans are in bankruptcy because of healthcare costs? How many forego healthcare because of costs? Do you know those numbers?

Why are you the only developed country without universal coverage?

[Zanera]

What if I don't get it?!

By the beard of Marx.

So Mavorpen is just being commie?

Kiiiiiiiiiiiiss.

No date first?

You already go well together!
No dinner, no date, just procreate!

[Mavorpen]

By the beard of Marx.

So Mavorpen is just being commie?

No date first?

You already go well together!
No dinner, no date, just procreate!

I may be a dirty commie, but I refuse to move that fast, sir.

[Randsbeik]

"Gunpoint" generally refers to the fact that public services are funded with tax money. I do agree that that money is being wasted on bullshit (I live in the States). But that money shouldn't just be diverted into welfare instead. It's just replacing shit with shit.

Even if (since there really isn't a guarantee) somebody benefits from the spending, it isn't my responsibility to subsidize it.

!. ) Which is why we need to fix how the system works, knock off the waste, and fund things that actually help, actively assist, and benefit the citizenry overall.

2.) Some of what you're saying is a bit silly, not to mention selfish. You may not /personally/ benefit from certain systems and services out there, but oddly enough, it isn't all about you. Or me. Or any one individual.

3.) Want to be entirely on your own with no ties, no responsibilities? Find yourself some quiet little corner you can claim, and have at it. Otherwise, afraid you're in this boat with the rest of us, and its bail, cut bait, or fish, boyo.

4.) We're more in need of a non-corrupt government getting back to the work of actually serving the country and its citizens rather than itself than some may like to admit.

5.) Doesn't mean you ought to be expected to give up all you have in order for it to be redistributed to everyone else, and get back only what the gov determines your 'fair share' is - not suggesting the like, which you seem to be under the delusion that I'd prefer.

6.) We've still got to figure out how to survive, together. Like it or not. And with better opportunities, better ability to work for ourselves and provide for ourselves - and others as can be managed when needed, as people do - can't help but think we'll all be a bit better off, without having to do it all at the expense of freedom, or stomping all over others, or their rights.

7.) Don't have all perfect solutions, no - but I know what we're doing isn't working, and we need to be doing something else entirely. Heading in the direction of compassion and solution has to beat greed and wasting time, money, and resources.

Sorry I couldn't respond before the thread got filled; I had to head off for a bit. I've numbered parts for my convenience.

1.) So, let market forces handle it?

2.) "Selfish," there's that word again, and at this point I've almost embraced it. But as far as benefits go, you really need to look at the individual level; "wider society" doesn't really benefit from anything. It isn't a thinking, breathing entity. People are. My point is that I have no innate responsibility for the welfare of anyone; not even myself. I simply prefer taking care of myself, and choosing to help out friends and family.

3.) This is an interesting way of trying to impose responsibilities, and fundamentally no different than the ass spew that comes out of the mouths of white nationalists.

4.) This seems like the definition of insanity. It sort of boils down to: "Well, that didn't work, but we just need to get the right person in power, then it'll work". It's entirely plausible that the corruption in government comes from the lack of accountability and power instead.

5.) If not the government in charge of redistribution, who does determine what my "fair share" is?

6.) Of course humans aren't islands, and this has been reflected historically and biologically. People tend towards working together in small groups particularly because of the need for division of labor. That's generally how civilization grows. I'm not against teamwork, or cooperation. I'm against forced participation.

7.) Market solutions are less wasteful in both time, money, and energy than some government hugfest. To be totally honest, if some nut with extreme ASPD threatens to kill someone and they get shot in self-defense, there really isn't much of value lost.

[Zanera]

So Mavorpen is just being commie?



You already go well together!
No dinner, no date, just procreate!

I may be a dirty commie, but I refuse to move that fast, sir.

Take the Eastern Germany side of the Autobahn then.

[Olerand]

Some quick facts for fun. America spends the most, per capita, on healthcare out of all OECD countries, which are the most developed in the world. For what?

A life expectancy comparable to Cuba's and Costa Rica's; an infant mortality rate between Hungary's (better) and Slovakia's (worse), per the World Health Organization; and a maternal mortality rate between Lebanon, Uruguay, Bahrain, (all with an estimated 15) and Qatar (13), per the World Bank.

All of this, and dozens of millions of Americans don't even have health insurance.

Honestly... The only thing America, for its humongous healthcare costs, can even claim to be a world leader in is cancer treatment, as it has more money to spend on the expensive machinery and procedures. But in literally everything else, America falls short, and doesn't even cover all of its citizens!

This isn't "center-right". The center-right, the true center-right, would have learned from its mistakes, and took the centrist route. It would have instituted a system like the other developed countries, to bring down costs and provide universal care.
But America hasn't done that. Why, one wonders?

[Nulla Bellum]

And.... he's back up emphasizing that he's full of air. A most polite boxing clown.

Are you just now realizing what I've been saying for the past few posts?

I'm curious to see if your thesaurus of idiocy will deplete itself. How many ways can you make a fool of yourself, anyway? Leftist with a rifle in a ballpark figure.

[Ifreann]

No, my definition of the right is very traditional. In fact, my nation invented the right. By all measures, you are, as a nation, and as a governing party, the furthest right.

The fact that you claim to be a "center-right" nation is an act of amazing national disingenuous delusion and a false charade propped up only by American society's aggressive parochialism and provincial attitudes.

No country where a poor man or woman can die of a curable disease because they cannot afford treatment is a "center-right" country. It is not a "center-right" belief, by any other developed nation's standards, to let those people die. So... "Center-right" America... I don't know about all of that.

My first thought: "My God, I'm dealing with an idiot."

My second thought: "No. He's just ignorant."

That isn't at all what the United States does. Look, I understand you hate the U.S despite us saving your asses twice but to think or say the United States is letting people die because we don't care about the poor is absolutely ludicrous. Obamacare, the policy causing what you are describing, is being actively fought against by the Republican Party, the party fighting for a policy to drop the costs of good healthcare for the poor instead of piss-poor healthcare for free. Hell, a very large portion of the poor in the U.S. voted for Donald Trump for that very reason. So to say we hate the poor is just a plain lie.

I spend a lot of time on NSG, and I see a lot of shit getting chatted. But it's rare that I see knowledge called ignorance.