White supremacist murders two in Portland

[Proctopeo]

Actually, many victims of communism were the proletariat.

im not denying that, the paranoia was astounding back then.

And also the willingness to cause mass famines.

[Torrocca]

I mean when fascist bastards twist an ideology to get themselves into power you can see how purges would occur and Communism would "fail" even though it never ended up being practiced, but sure we'll call it Communism anyway because it's way easier than actually addressing what happened.

Just keep sweeping communism's skeletons under the rug. I'm sure nobody will notice the hundred million dead.

It sure must be easy to blame an ideology for something without actually understanding the ideology itself as well as how it was used historically for the benefit of a greedy few.

For instance: "Boy, those radical extremists killed a few people because they're radical, BETTER BLAME ALL OF ISLAM!"
Or: "Boy, those Crusaders killed a few people because they were crusading, BETTER BLAME ALL OF CHRISTIANITY!"
Or even: "That white supremacist committed unjustifiable murder, BETTER BLAME ALL THE WHITE PEOPLE!"

I could go on for you.

[Greed and Death]

again he was a sanders supporter.
funny since sanders is a secular Jew and not big on religion.

That doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand. I could care less who he voted for in the Primary: he was a fascist terrorist, case closed. Something proactive needs to be done about this before sporadic incidents become an everyday reality.

Given her economic viewpoints and communist history of repressing minority religious movements I think communist is the more accurate label to apply to her.

It also explains his support of Sanders communist were fine with Jewish atheist but oppressed practicing Jews.

[Uxupox]

Just keep sweeping communism's skeletons under the rug. I'm sure nobody will notice the hundred million dead.

It sure must be easy to blame an ideology for something without actually understanding the ideology itself as well as how it was used historically for the benefit of a greedy few.

For instance: "Boy, those radical extremists killed a few people because they're radical, BETTER BLAME ALL OF ISLAM!"
Or: "Boy, those Crusaders killed a few people because they were crusading, BETTER BLAME ALL OF CHRISTIANITY!"
Or even: "That white supremacist committed unjustifiable murder, BETTER BLAME ALL THE WHITE PEOPLE!"

I could go on for you.

You could if you want since it's a free country but if I tried that in the Soviet Union I would be sent to the gulag for "political reeducation" and most likely never be heard from again.

[Torrocca]

It sure must be easy to blame an ideology for something without actually understanding the ideology itself as well as how it was used historically for the benefit of a greedy few.

For instance: "Boy, those radical extremists killed a few people because they're radical, BETTER BLAME ALL OF ISLAM!"
Or: "Boy, those Crusaders killed a few people because they were crusading, BETTER BLAME ALL OF CHRISTIANITY!"
Or even: "That white supremacist committed unjustifiable murder, BETTER BLAME ALL THE WHITE PEOPLE!"

I could go on for you.

You could if you want since it's a free country but if I tried that in the Soviet Union I would be sent to the gulag for "political reeducation" and most likely never be heard from again.

Because the Soviet Union, a state that pretended to be Communist, actually ever practiced Communist ideals. Despite, y'know, Communism calling for the dissolution of the state.

[Proctopeo]

Just keep sweeping communism's skeletons under the rug. I'm sure nobody will notice the hundred million dead.

It sure must be easy to blame an ideology for something without actually understanding the ideology itself as well as how it was used historically for the benefit of a greedy few.

For instance: "Boy, those radical extremists killed a few people because they're radical, BETTER BLAME ALL OF ISLAM!"
Or: "Boy, those Crusaders killed a few people because they were crusading, BETTER BLAME ALL OF CHRISTIANITY!"
Or even: "That white supremacist committed unjustifiable murder, BETTER BLAME ALL THE WHITE PEOPLE!"

I could go on for you.

Communism is an economic ideology, and not the same thing as a religion or a race. You should know this, and that the three aren't readily comparable with one another, economic ideologies especially.
I know this is even less related to the topic, but if you want to go that route, then there's never been a real capitalist society either

[Kash Island]

You could if you want since it's a free country but if I tried that in the Soviet Union I would be sent to the gulag for "political reeducation" and most likely never be heard from again.

Because the Soviet Union, a state that pretended to be Communist, actually ever preached Communist ideals. Despite, y'know, Communism calling for the dissolution of the state.

You undersand Fascism is not a racist ideology in itself right? That is Nazism

so is it Fascism you are against or is it National Socialism?

[Uxupox]

You could if you want since it's a free country but if I tried that in the Soviet Union I would be sent to the gulag for "political reeducation" and most likely never be heard from again.

Because the Soviet Union, a state that pretended to be Communist, actually ever practiced Communist ideals. Despite, y'know, Communism calling for the dissolution of the state.

It's so obvious now. There was never a real communist state was there?

[Torrocca]

Because the Soviet Union, a state that pretended to be Communist, actually ever practiced Communist ideals. Despite, y'know, Communism calling for the dissolution of the state.

It's so obvious now. There was never a real communist state was there?

Well there is no state in a Communist society sooo, no.

Because the Soviet Union, a state that pretended to be Communist, actually ever preached Communist ideals. Despite, y'know, Communism calling for the dissolution of the state.

You undersand Fascism is not a racist ideology in itself right? That is Nazism

so is it Fascism you are against or is it National Socialism?

I'm strictly against both because they're horrible fucking beliefs.

[Kash Island]

It's so obvious now. There was never a real communist state was there?

Well there is no state in a Communist society sooo, no.

You undersand Fascism is not a racist ideology in itself right? That is Nazism

so is it Fascism you are against or is it National Socialism?

I'm strictly against both because they're horrible fucking beliefs.

yay were all mindless ants in communism, but fuck fascism

[Torrocca]

Well there is no state in a Communist society sooo, no.



I'm strictly against both because they're horrible fucking beliefs.

yay were all mindless ants in communism, but fuck fascism

I mean that's not what Communism's about but sure if you want to push that belief go right ahead.

Meanwhile let's just keep ignoring this point I made:

You know Fascism and Nazism are not the same right? Nazism being a sub-form of Fascism.

I wasn't talking about Nazism there, I was talking specifically about how Fascists took Communism and twisted it for their gains and power and how everyone likes to conveniently ignore it when saying, "b-b-but Communism killed people too!" Ignoring that blatant "whataboutism", saying stupid shit like this literally just ignores what happened in these "Communist" societies (hint: they weren't Communist because Communism calls for the dissolution of the state).

But going back to that whataboutism, it seems very funny that everyone seems to want to ignore intentional, systematic genocide (emphasis on that because it's pretty fucking important) and even remotely try to compare it to deaths from famine. There is no comparison because famine is NOT intentional murder, but genocide literally is. It seems that systematic murder isn't important though, because while that's literally a core value of Nazism, "it's okay because they didn't kill that many people so let's let them have free speech!" No. Nazis don't deserve free speech, because it preaches murder and genocide. It's a catalyst for events like what happened in Portland and many other events, most notably the Holocaust. Nazism is literally a plague on humanity.

Sounds like you've never heard of Stalinism and Maoism.

"Show me in the history books where exactly Communists built a state whose purpose was to commit ethnic genocide and push an image of a 'master race'..."

Stalin didn't push an image of a Russian master race nor commit ethnic genocide, Mao didn't push an image of a Han Chinese master race nor commit ethnic genocide.

Because it's always cool to bash Communism whenever someone states disagreement with Nazism.

[Uxupox]

It's so obvious now. There was never a real communist state was there?

Well there is no state in a Communist society sooo, no.

You undersand Fascism is not a racist ideology in itself right? That is Nazism

so is it Fascism you are against or is it National Socialism?

I'm strictly against both because they're horrible fucking beliefs.

Stalin, Lenin, Kalinin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ho Chi Min disagree with your assessment that there was never a communist state. As communism itself is divided into multiple schools of thought.

[Proctopeo]

It's so obvious now. There was never a real communist state was there?

Well there is no state in a Communist society sooo, no.

You undersand Fascism is not a racist ideology in itself right? That is Nazism

so is it Fascism you are against or is it National Socialism?

I'm strictly against both because they're horrible fucking beliefs.

I'm very marginally less against fascism than I am communism, because at least fascism is honest

[Uxupox]

You know Fascism and Nazism are not the same right? Nazism being a sub-form of Fascism.

I wasn't talking about Nazism there, I was talking specifically about how Fascists took Communism and twisted it for their gains and power and how everyone likes to conveniently ignore it when saying, "b-b-but Communism killed people too!" Ignoring that blatant "whataboutism", saying stupid shit like this literally just ignores what happened in these "Communist" societies (hint: they weren't Communist because Communism calls for the dissolution of the state).

But going back to that whataboutism, it seems very funny that everyone seems to want to ignore intentional, systematic genocide (emphasis on that because it's pretty fucking important) and even remotely try to compare it to deaths from famine. There is no comparison because famine is NOT intentional murder, but genocide literally is. It seems that systematic murder isn't important though, because while that's literally a core value of Nazism, "it's okay because they didn't kill that many people so let's let them have free speech!" No. Nazis don't deserve free speech, because it preaches murder and genocide. It's a catalyst for events like what happened in Portland and many other events, most notably the Holocaust. Nazism is literally a plague on humanity.

Sounds like you've never heard of Stalinism and Maoism.

"Show me in the history books where exactly Communists built a state whose purpose was to commit ethnic genocide and push an image of a 'master race'..."

Stalin didn't push an image of a Russian master race nor commit ethnic genocide, Mao didn't push an image of a Han Chinese master race nor commit ethnic genocide.

He didn't but they both murdered a shit ton of people.

[Torrocca]

Well there is no state in a Communist society sooo, no.



I'm strictly against both because they're horrible fucking beliefs.

Stalin, Lenin, Kalinin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ho Chi Min disagree with your assessment that there was never a communist state. As communism itself is divided into multiple schools of thought.

From the very first paragraph: "However, contrary to Western usage, these states do not describe themselves as "communist" nor do they claim to have achieved communism; they refer to themselves as Socialist states or Workers' states that are in the process of constructing socialism." So tell me again how they called themselves Communist?

[Kash Island]

Stalin, Lenin, Kalinin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ho Chi Min disagree with your assessment that there was never a communist state. As communism itself is divided into multiple schools of thought.

From the very first paragraph: "However, contrary to Western usage, these states do not describe themselves as "communist" nor do they claim to have achieved communism; they refer to themselves as Socialist states or Workers' states that are in the process of constructing socialism." So tell me again how they called themselves Communist?

and part of being communist is that exact process....that's what MARXISM IS.

[Torrocca]

From the very first paragraph: "However, contrary to Western usage, these states do not describe themselves as "communist" nor do they claim to have achieved communism; they refer to themselves as Socialist states or Workers' states that are in the process of constructing socialism." So tell me again how they called themselves Communist?

and part of being communist is that exact process....that's what MARXISM IS.

"In the process of constructing socialism." That doesn't seem to be gunning toward Communism.

From the very first paragraph: "However, contrary to Western usage, these states do not describe themselves as "communist" nor do they claim to have achieved communism; they refer to themselves as Socialist states or Workers' states that are in the process of constructing socialism." So tell me again how they called themselves Communist?

Their names were literally The Chinese Communist Part, The Bolshevik Communist Party(Or some shit), Vietnamese Communist Party, etc.

But they never called their states Communist or said there was any Communist state, which was the point Ux made and what I have given proof is wrong.

[Kash Island]

and part of being communist is that exact process....that's what MARXISM IS.

By the way I feel the need to differentiate Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism from Communism. They don't have the same goal, only Communists view it as a step towards their goal, while Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists view it as their endgoal.

I know what you are saying, I'm a former marxist.

[Uxupox]

and part of being communist is that exact process....that's what MARXISM IS.

"In the process of constructing socialism." That doesn't seem to be gunning toward Communism.

Their names were literally The Chinese Communist Part, The Bolshevik Communist Party(Or some shit), Vietnamese Communist Party, etc.

But they never called their states Communist or said there was any Communist state, which was the point Ux made and what I have given proof is wrong.

They way they worked was to strive to achieve their goals through the means that they were conducting.

[Torrocca]

"In the process of constructing socialism." That doesn't seem to be gunning toward Communism.



But they never called their states Communist or said there was any Communist state, which was the point Ux made and what I have given proof is wrong.

They way they worked was to strive to achieve their goals through the means that they were conducting.

And that's why they grew more capitalist over time?

Anyway let's keep ignoring this whole point that's very relevant to the discussion:

You know Fascism and Nazism are not the same right? Nazism being a sub-form of Fascism.

I wasn't talking about Nazism there, I was talking specifically about how Fascists took Communism and twisted it for their gains and power and how everyone likes to conveniently ignore it when saying, "b-b-but Communism killed people too!" Ignoring that blatant "whataboutism", saying stupid shit like this literally just ignores what happened in these "Communist" societies (hint: they weren't Communist because Communism calls for the dissolution of the state).

But going back to that whataboutism, it seems very funny that everyone seems to want to ignore intentional, systematic genocide (emphasis on that because it's pretty fucking important) and even remotely try to compare it to deaths from famine. There is no comparison because famine is NOT intentional murder, but genocide literally is. It seems that systematic murder isn't important though, because while that's literally a core value of Nazism, "it's okay because they didn't kill that many people so let's let them have free speech!" No. Nazis don't deserve free speech, because it preaches murder and genocide. It's a catalyst for events like what happened in Portland and many other events, most notably the Holocaust. Nazism is literally a plague on humanity.

Because, seriously, let's get back to addressing the original concern that you all seem so ready to detract from to bash on the Fascist twisting of an ideology: the issue of white supremacy in the world.

[Daeseong]

Because the Soviet Union, a state that pretended to be Communist, actually ever preached Communist ideals. Despite, y'know, Communism calling for the dissolution of the state.

You undersand Fascism is not a racist ideology in itself right? That is Nazism

so is it Fascism you are against or is it National Socialism?

This is patently incorrect.

Though it's true that not all fascists were Nazis - and thus were not necessarily antisemites or eugenicists - fascism is inherently racist - as compared to right-wing authoritarianism. The defining feature of fascism literally was stressing one's national identity and this justified conquest as a necessary evil in a macrocosm of international Darwinism.

Racism, as defined by Oxford's online dictionary, is to antagonize against a person or group based on his or her nationality or racial identity. Fascism literally and inextricably advocates for this as a part of its very defining ethos. Palingenetic millenarianism and ultranationalism both inherently exalt race as defining features of a national rejuvenation, and these concepts were inherent to fascism as a whole - not just Nazism.

[New haven america]

Because the Soviet Union, a state that pretended to be Communist, actually ever practiced Communist ideals. Despite, y'know, Communism calling for the dissolution of the state.

It's so obvious now. There was never a real communist state was there?

1. There's no such thing as a communist state
2. Nope. There have been attempts, but every single time, something has fucked up somewhere and turned the place into a dictatorship (Most common being a capitalist dictatorship)

[Proctopeo]

You know Fascism and Nazism are not the same right? Nazism being a sub-form of Fascism.

I wasn't talking about Nazism there, I was talking specifically about how Fascists took Communism and twisted it for their gains and power and how everyone likes to conveniently ignore it when saying, "b-b-but Communism killed people too!" Ignoring that blatant "whataboutism", saying stupid shit like this literally just ignores what happened in these "Communist" societies (hint: they weren't Communist because Communism calls for the dissolution of the state).

But going back to that whataboutism, it seems very funny that everyone seems to want to ignore intentional, systematic genocide (emphasis on that because it's pretty fucking important) and even remotely try to compare it to deaths from famine. There is no comparison because famine is NOT intentional murder, but genocide literally is. It seems that systematic murder isn't important though, because while that's literally a core value of Nazism, "it's okay because they didn't kill that many people so let's let them have free speech!" No. Nazis don't deserve free speech, because it preaches murder and genocide. It's a catalyst for events like what happened in Portland and many other events, most notably the Holocaust. Nazism is literally a plague on humanity.

Well, I mean, there was the Holodomor. An intentional famine with a death toll on par with the Holocaust: 7-10 million for the Holodomor and 6-11 for the Holocaust.

[Kash Island]

You undersand Fascism is not a racist ideology in itself right? That is Nazism

so is it Fascism you are against or is it National Socialism?

This is patently incorrect.

Though it's true that not all fascists were Nazis - and thus were not necessarily antisemites or eugenicists - fascism is inherently racist - as compared to right-wing authoritarianism. The defining feature of fascism literally was stressing one's national identity and this justified conquest as a necessary evil in a macrocosm of international Darwinism.

Racism, as defined by Oxford's online dictionary, is to antagonize against a person or group based on his or her nationality or racial identity. Fascism literally and inextricably advocates for this as a part of its very defining ethos. Palingenetic millenarianism and ultranationalism both inherently exalt race as defining features of a national rejuvenation, and these concepts were inherent to fascism as a whole - not just Nazism.

oh i didn't know french was a race or Taiwanese is also a race....da fuck world we living in.

[Irona]

From the very first paragraph: "However, contrary to Western usage, these states do not describe themselves as "communist" nor do they claim to have achieved communism; they refer to themselves as Socialist states or Workers' states that are in the process of constructing socialism." So tell me again how they called themselves Communist?

Their names were literally The Chinese Communist Party, The Bolshevik Communist Party(Or some shit), Vietnamese Communist Party, etc.

Because that was/is their ultimate aim. It doesn't mean that they actually established communism or ever claimed they had. Calling a socialist country communist is a western language problem.