The Manchester Attacks Megathread

[Luminesa]

I'd be more inclined to ignore you for spending an hour trying to piss me off for some reason. I'll see.

Rather a step back from your earlier claim that terrorism is this family's business.

According to the reports in the news, Terroism is the families business. I stand by that. However, even terrorists deserve a fair trial.

ETHEL. YOU'RE BEING TOO REASONABLE.

[Vassenor]

So it looks like Manchester might be the second UK city to boycott The Sun because of its coverage of this attack.

[Eastfield Lodge]

But nobody demanded all upper class Brits be rounded up and expelled because of him, unlike what hapoens every time a Muslim is implicated in an attack.

Nobody serious is demanding all Muslims be rounded up and expelled.

This is a non-mainstream view.

"Don't you dare touch IS, western terror attacks are totally unconnected to them," however, is a mainstream view.

Have you not been paying attention to this thread?

[Questers]

Nobody serious is demanding all Muslims be rounded up and expelled.

This is a non-mainstream view.

"Don't you dare touch IS, western terror attacks are totally unconnected to them," however, is a mainstream view.

Have you not been paying attention to this thread?

I said it's a non-mainstream view, not that it's a non-existent view.

[Senegalboy]

So it looks like Manchester might be the second UK city to boycott The Sun because of its coverage of this attack.

The sun is playing politics even in mourning

[Reploid Productions]

As far as I'm concerned there is 1.2 billion people connected with this.

A roundabout way of saying "All Muslims are terrorists" is still saying "All Muslims are terrorists," and it is still trolling.

*** Donut section, WARNED for trolling. ***


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Luminesa]

Apparently, Salon thinks this was an attack on women.

Ah, Salon. The left's Breitbart. Also featuring a complete lack of self-awareness, just like Breitbart.

"LET'S MAKE THIS TRAGEDY ABOUT OUR FIGHT AGAINST IMAGINED MISOGYNY, WHILE WOMEN IN THE MIDDLE EAST LIVE IN SUBPAR CONDITIONS AND MANY ARE TREATED LIKE DOGS. YAY!!!"
- Salon, probably.

[Galloism]

Ah, Salon. The left's Breitbart. Also featuring a complete lack of self-awareness, just like Breitbart.

"LET'S MAKE THIS TRAGEDY ABOUT OUR FIGHT AGAINST IMAGINED MISOGYNY, WHILE WOMEN IN THE MIDDLE EAST LIVE IN SUBPAR CONDITIONS AND MANY ARE TREATED LIKE DOGS. YAY!!!"
- Salon, probably.

ISIS engages in plenty of misogyny. It's not lacking.

Also misandry.

Also misanthropy.

Also all other kinds of hatred and bigotry.

[Zanera]

So it looks like Manchester might be the second UK city to boycott The Sun because of its coverage of this attack.

Tabloid magazine?

[Luminesa]

"LET'S MAKE THIS TRAGEDY ABOUT OUR FIGHT AGAINST IMAGINED MISOGYNY, WHILE WOMEN IN THE MIDDLE EAST LIVE IN SUBPAR CONDITIONS AND MANY ARE TREATED LIKE DOGS. YAY!!!"
- Salon, probably.

ISIS engages in plenty of misogyny. It's not lacking.

Also misandry.

Also misanthropy.

Also all other kinds of hatred and bigotry.

I am aware. I was agreeing with you. I mean that Salon is going to twist this into something to fit their agenda. Much like Breitbart.

[Souseiseki]

granny blasting sky news at a slightly above comfortable level beside me which is annoying

they're talking about how the UK are angry that US authorities have leaked pictures of the backpack the bomb was in

they then, of course, proceeded to show the exact image they're literally in the process of saying the british government are pissed about being shown

[Imperializt Russia]

But nobody demanded all upper class Brits be rounded up and expelled because of him, unlike what hapoens every time a Muslim is implicated in an attack.

Nobody serious is demanding all Muslims be rounded up and expelled.

This is a non-mainstream view.

"Don't you dare touch IS, western terror attacks are totally unconnected to them," however, is a mainstream view.

"This is a non-mainstream view which people claim is mainstream.
They are wrong.
Here is another non-mainstream view that I disagree with, and I'm going to claim it's mainstream"

Come on Questers.

[Imperializt Russia]

Be careful - modern feminism is actually pro IS.

[citation needed]

[Fartsniffage]

So I just got back from watching the game in a pub in the city centre. It was weird.

The place was full, the sun was out, there were kids playing in the fountain in Piccadilly Gardens. But it was quiet. Even the pub I was in was quiet, the only real noise was for the goals.

But if you're hungry then it would be a good place to be. Can't walk 50 feet without some group offering to feed you for free. The Sikh lot had some curry type thing that smelled amazing.....

[Questers]

Nobody serious is demanding all Muslims be rounded up and expelled.

This is a non-mainstream view.

"Don't you dare touch IS, western terror attacks are totally unconnected to them," however, is a mainstream view.

"This is a non-mainstream view which people claim is mainstream.
They are wrong.
Here is another non-mainstream view that I disagree with, and I'm going to claim it's mainstream"

Come on Questers.

It's true.

The most mainstream person able to say anything like the former is Katie Hopkins. She's almost the only one - and she was reported to the police. However it's not uncommon to find people saying "now we have to have peace" as if we aren't actually at war.

[Questers]

Be careful - modern feminism is actually pro IS.

[citation needed]

It's self-proving. Look for one modern feminist - as in, an accepted member of the movement - who thinks we should strike IS. If you can find a prominent western feminist who is actually against Islamic State I will eat my words.

[Souseiseki]

[citation needed]

It's self-proving. Look for one modern feminist - as in, an accepted member of the movement - who thinks we should strike IS. If you can find a prominent western feminist who is actually against Islamic State I will eat my words.

i am fucking flabbergasted that you think feminism isn't against the literal slave rape army

[Questers]

It's self-proving. Look for one modern feminist - as in, an accepted member of the movement - who thinks we should strike IS. If you can find a prominent western feminist who is actually against Islamic State I will eat my words.

i am fucking flabbergasted that you think feminism isn't against the literal slave rape army

So am I.

In an abstract of course they will all say they are against it. But they are relatively less against it than they are against "domestic patriarchy" or whatever. In practice - in a non-academic sense - this translates to being pro IS.

[Souseiseki]

it's a hard one though, i must admit

i guess at my first piece of evidence i'll have to submit [the history of the feminist movement in its entirety]

[Questers]

I would just like you to find one modern feminist who published something that is about something happening in Islamic State that doesn't make some kind of inert reference to how we are actually worse here

[Proctopeo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36346886/uk-attitudes-towards-islam-concerning-after-survey-of-2000-people

So after numerous terror attacks committed in the name of Islam and the Muslim population getting itself an horrible reputation because of its shit behavior, the general populace in the U.K is starting to dislike more Islam and Muslims.
How so very freaking surprising. Tots couldn't have seen this coming.

Heck, it's not even overwhelmingly negative. It appears kinda mixed. While only 28% say Islam is compatible with British values, only 43% say it's a negative force. Now, most apparently seem to think most everybody hates Islam, but that's a weird thing.

I am willing to say, however, that Islam is probably not very compatible with British values.

Another interesting thing is that according to Pew, back in 2016 at least, Britain had positive views on Islam, on par with Germany and better than Sweden.

That's actually a pretty interesting article, by the way - apparently Muslims in Muslim countries have more negative views of Westerners than Westerners in Western countries do of Muslims. Also, Sharia law has the greatest popularity in Afghanistan and the lowest in Azerbaijan among Muslims. This isn't really related, so I'll stop here. But check it out

[Questers]

That's actually a pretty interesting article, by the way - apparently Muslims in Muslim countries have more negative views of Westerners than Westerners in Western countries do of Muslims.

This is wholly unsurprising, especially if you have lived in a country with a high concentration of Muslims.

Our popular culture has a huge amount of peer pressure into not saying anything negative about Islam - so that if you can't say anything negative about it, the only things you can say are neutral or positive. This just isn't the case in Islamic countries. There's no stigma with criticising our way of doing things.

Btw I actually like Islam a lot. Not sure I should go into that now though.

[Proctopeo]

That's actually a pretty interesting article, by the way - apparently Muslims in Muslim countries have more negative views of Westerners than Westerners in Western countries do of Muslims.

This is wholly unsurprising, especially if you have lived in a country with a high concentration of Muslims.

Our popular culture has a huge amount of peer pressure into not saying anything negative about Islam - so that if you can't say anything negative about it, the only things you can say are neutral or positive. This just isn't the case in Islamic countries. There's no stigma with criticising our way of doing things.

Btw I actually like Islam a lot. Not sure I should go into that now though.

I have mixed opinions of it, to be honest. I oppose much of what the religion stands for, as well as Islamism and many of the countries where it's the norm, but not Muslims. Most I've met have been chill.

[Republic of the Roman Nations]

Let's start over.

What I'm saying is that we can bring people he knew in for questioning, that doesn't mean that they're under arrest.

Are you arguing that we can't?

Also law is procedural, there is a system you must go through.

I never argued that at all.
If you've got a source saying that's common procedure, then I'll cede immediately.
Otherwise looking through this justice.gov pdf that says everything anyone could easily assume about procedure while also not saying anything, just makes me realize burden of proof is probably on you.

Well I'm an American but my CJ101 class covered different nations approach's to interrogation briefly.

Since the U.K. lacks a singular constitutional document protecting the rights of the citizen they are instead governed by the code of practice for the detention, treatment and questioning of persons by police officers in this case.

The only real notable difference here would be that the British approach is somewhat stricter as the officer is supposed to advise the suspect of their right to remain silent as soon as their is reasonable grounds to detain them. The American Miranda rule only applies when they're in custody and being interrogated.

In the U.K. the prosecution may bring up areas where the defendant refused to answer questions, in the U.S. you can't use their silence against them.

https://archive.org/stream/officialdocuments_uk_9780108511691/9780108511691_djvu.txt

This is the link to the entire document, most of it is insuring that those being questioned have access to needs such as bathrooms, legal consul, and etc.

In layman's terms an Officer of the law may approach you and ask you questions, but it is your right not to reply and even walk away as long as you are not being detained.

For a detention the officer need only have reasonable suspicion.

There is a difference between a detention and an arrest, you can read more about that here.

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/arrests_and_searches/arrest-detention.htm

[Glamour]

<snip>

I am not going to take part in making a bombing thread about feminism and men and women and gender issues.

I will happily debate you on this, but you need to take it to either the male movement thread, MRA thread, or feminism thread - your choice.

I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of Salon. That's all.

Your strawman is noted, however.

We can all do snipping, and for those who are not up for reading anything longer than a paragraph and responding in context - by the way, it was not me who originally went out of context with this particular debate - I did say in my original post, in response to this:

Oh yes, I forgot any mention that women don't have it rosy was "political".

Arguing it was a gender-based attack is inherently a political statement, and was made for political gain.

That:

Pointing out your view that someone who says it was a gender-based attack constitutes a political statement, when indeed it was a gender-based attack, is, in effect, arguing that it is debatable as to whether it was a gender-based attack, and that is inherently a political statement, and was made for political gain. And it is you who has turned this mass murder into a political statement about gender in doing so.

There are no more strawmen standing in the field now than after you erected the first one.