The Manchester Attacks Megathread

[Austrasien]

I'd say some shtick about "ThE ReligION oF PeACE hurr durr" but that's probably been run into the ground many of many of times its probably at Rasputins grave. Anyways the saying is that you shouldn't let the bad apples ruin the bunch or something like that. (I think) What happens when the bad apples start making other bad apples and start killing a bunch of people. (Basically Islam) what do you do? What way should the government's of Europe handle this threat? Suspend Muslims from coming in? Place Muslims on watch lists? Suspend rights to conduct more effective counter terrorism operations domestically? What path does one take to curbing this scourge, cause it isn't gonna just go away after ISIL falls.

• Reprisals against terrorists families has been shown statistically to be an effective deterrent. "Homegrown" terrorists usually have families in the country.
• Pre-empt. Targeted killings are already performed abroad. Bring them home.

[Ifreann]

Apparently, Salon thinks this was an attack on women.

Ah, Salon. The left's Breitbart. Also featuring a complete lack of self-awareness, just like Breitbart.

I mean, I think most of the dead were children of the feminine variety, so in a way it was an attack on girls, but somehow I suspect that that's not quite what they're getting at.

[Senegalboy]

And how do you do that?

Stable employment, good wage, roof over your head, family to care for, etc.

How else?

Very true muslim youth unemployment is way above the national average
46% of muslim live in the top 10% of deprived areas
Only 24% of muslims have a degree compared to 40%
Of hindus

[The East Marches II]

I'd say some shtick about "ThE ReligION oF PeACE hurr durr" but that's probably been run into the ground many of many of times its probably at Rasputins grave. Anyways the saying is that you shouldn't let the bad apples ruin the bunch or something like that. (I think) What happens when the bad apples start making other bad apples and start killing a bunch of people. (Basically Islam) what do you do? What way should the government's of Europe handle this threat? Suspend Muslims from coming in? Place Muslims on watch lists? Suspend rights to conduct more effective counter terrorism operations domestically? What path does one take to curbing this scourge, cause it isn't gonna just go away after ISIL falls.

• Reprisals against terrorists families has been shown statistically to be an effective deterrent. "Homegrown" terrorists usually have families in the country.
• Pre-empt. Targeted killings are already performed abroad. Bring them home.

Citizens have rights that foreigners do not. You shouldn't subject your own to that sort of treatment. If it were some rathole, you'd have a point. You don't shit where you eat however.

[Imperializt Russia]

Except most of the attacks in Europe have been from people born in Europe. How do you stop those people?

Proper integration instead of letting people self segregate.

I don't know about the domestic terrorists, but recruits to fight in Syria for IS have been almost universally middle-class.
Pretty integrated to me.

[Athrax]

Ah, Salon. The left's Breitbart. Also featuring a complete lack of self-awareness, just like Breitbart.

I mean, I think most of the dead were children of the feminine variety, so in a way it was an attack on girls, but somehow I suspect that that's not quite what they're getting at.

I find it a stretch that an attack on a concert with a primarily female audience was an attack on women any more than an attack on that Toby Keith concert in Saudi Arabia would have been an attack on men. They find a manefesto that mentions women and I'll listen

[Imperializt Russia]

Apparently, Salon thinks this was an attack on women.

Ah, Salon. The left's Breitbart. Also featuring a complete lack of self-awareness, just like Breitbart.

Except the Daily Mail more or less agreed, saying that the performer, and her audience, are "everything IS despises in the west". Female empowerment, female sexuality and personal freedom.
Oh, and music.

So it's not a "lefty view".

[Zanera]

Apparently, Salon thinks this was an attack on women.

Ah, Salon. The left's Breitbart. Also featuring a complete lack of self-awareness, just like Breitbart.

Salon is a great news source that hires good journalists to honestly report about newsworthy items.

[Austrasien]

Citizens have rights that foreigners do not. You shouldn't subject your own to that sort of treatment. If it were some rathole, you'd have a point. You don't shit where you eat however.

The reality of the globalized world is that "citizenship" often signifies little more than which passport you hold. I personally would prefer to live in a world where citizenship was more carried more rights, responsibilities and more roots; but for western Europe this ship has already sailed. Europeans want cosmopolitanism, and in a cosmopolitan world the citizen and foreigner are equals.

And they already kill foreigners.

[Imperializt Russia]

And how do you do that?

Stable employment, good wage, roof over your head, family to care for, etc.

How else?

Sounds dangerously like socialism. That would take us BACK TO THE 1970S, can't be having that.

No, the way forwards is the DYNAMIC... dynamic-ness of the GIG ECONOMY where workers are denied legal protections as employees through loopholes about "self-employment", and the very nature of stable employment itself.

[Galloism]

Ah, Salon. The left's Breitbart. Also featuring a complete lack of self-awareness, just like Breitbart.

(Image)

Except the Daily Mail more or less agreed, saying that the performer, and her audience, are "everything IS despises in the west". Female empowerment, female sexuality and personal freedom.
Oh, and music.

So it's not a "lefty view".

ISIS despises a lot of things in the west. Specifically they hate the pop star culture, of both male and female variety.

Are we going to say that every time a male-dominated venue is targeted, it's an anti-male gendered thing?

Because if so, 500 pages on this thread isn't going to be enough to list them.


Point is though, they bitched about Alex Jones making it political, and then immediately, within seconds, made it political. No self-awareness.

[The East Marches II]

Citizens have rights that foreigners do not. You shouldn't subject your own to that sort of treatment. If it were some rathole, you'd have a point. You don't shit where you eat however.

The reality of the globalized world is that "citizenship" often signifies little more than which passport you hold. I personally would prefer to live in a world where citizenship was more carried more rights, responsibilities and more roots; but for western Europe this ship has already sailed. Europeans want cosmopolitanism, and in a cosmopolitan world the citizen and foreigner are equals.

And they already kill foreigners.

That is an interesting line of reasoning. I don't hold that the citizen and the foreigner are equals myself but that is a good explanation on the matter. Good post.

[Gallia-]

Stable employment, good wage, roof over your head, family to care for, etc.

How else?

Very true muslim youth unemployment is way above the national average
46% of muslim live in the top 10% of deprived areas
Only 24% of muslims have a degree compared to 40%
Of hindus

The problem is that youth unemployment (and unemployment in general) is a growing problem, so it probably won't be a viable solution. It would require a reversal of the trends of technological unemployment and jobless growth. You'd need another dot-com bubble, which is incidentally why terrorism took such a dip in the 1990s in Europe, and that doesn't seem to be on the horizon at the moment. Wages, job growth, and labor force participation rates seem to be dropping or remaining stagnant.

Proper integration instead of letting people self segregate.

I don't know about the domestic terrorists, but recruits to fight in Syria for IS have been almost universally middle-class.
Pretty integrated to me.

Nonsense. They're unemployed, over-educated, jobless kids who have nothing better to do.

[Imperializt Russia]

Except the Daily Mail more or less agreed, saying that the performer, and her audience, are "everything IS despises in the west". Female empowerment, female sexuality and personal freedom.
Oh, and music.

So it's not a "lefty view".

ISIS despises a lot of things in the west. Specifically they hate the pop star culture, of both male and female variety.

Are we going to say that every time a male-dominated venue is targeted, it's an anti-male gendered thing?

Because if so, 500 pages on this thread isn't going to be enough to list them.


Point is though, they bitched about Alex Jones making it political, and then immediately, within seconds, made it political. No self-awareness.

Oh yes, I forgot any mention that women don't have it rosy was "political".

[Galloism]

Oh yes, I forgot any mention that women don't have it rosy was "political".

Arguing it was a gender-based attack is inherently a political statement, and was made for political gain.

[Gallia-]

Stable employment, good wage, roof over your head, family to care for, etc.

How else?

Sounds dangerously like socialism. That would take us BACK TO THE 1970S, can't be having that.

No, the way forwards is the DYNAMIC... dynamic-ness of the GIG ECONOMY where workers are denied legal protections as employees through loopholes about "self-employment", and the very nature of stable employment itself.

Which is why we'll need to introduce tiers of rights and citizenship to protect the most productive and educated workers, who will increasingly form the segregated core of the economy.

Provisioning rights through tax bracket is a start, but in practice it would be more like "stripping rights of lower tax brackets" than anything.

The "gig worker" will be treated no better than a foreign North African or Southwest Asian who just happens to live in London, because geography has no meaning in the future economy. This ties into what Austrasien says about citizenship a bit I think. The only well respected people of the future British economy will be the ultra-rich, because these people will have all the rights and protections of the law, regardless of their actual origins.

[Proctopeo]

Some don't integrate, although I'm not sure how common it is. Either way, integration, even partially, might actually be a valid solution. It's harder to want to "kill the infidels!" if your neighbor is one and he lent you his vacuum.

Well the integration issue is an issue across the country and the continent but you can only intergrate if the society they want to intergrate into accepts them and British society is not accepting the muslim youths and they are driven to edge

Integration is, of course, a two-way street.
And how does British society not accept the Muslim youths? I can't know, because I'm an American.

[Galloism]

Ah, Salon. The left's Breitbart. Also featuring a complete lack of self-awareness, just like Breitbart.

I mean, I think most of the dead were children of the feminine variety, so in a way it was an attack on girls, but somehow I suspect that that's not quite what they're getting at.

Nope. The link goes here.

Where they argued that young girls are feared and hated by society or something. And assholes live on the internet.

[Senegalboy]

Well the integration issue is an issue across the country and the continent but you can only intergrate if the society they want to intergrate into accepts them and British society is not accepting the muslim youths and they are driven to edge

Integration is, of course, a two-way street.
And how does British society not accept the Muslim youths? I can't know, because I'm an American.

A large minority dislike muslims and label all muslims terrorists so it's hard

[Imperializt Russia]

Oh yes, I forgot any mention that women don't have it rosy was "political".

Arguing it was a gender-based attack is inherently a political statement, and was made for political gain.

It's a feel-good article about the writer's daughter for fuck's sake, Gallo.

[Proctopeo]

Integration is, of course, a two-way street.
And how does British society not accept the Muslim youths? I can't know, because I'm an American.

A large minority dislike muslims and label all muslims terrorists so it's hard

Evidence for such a claim?

[Imperializt Russia]

Oh yes, I forgot any mention that women don't have it rosy was "political".

Arguing it was a gender-based attack is inherently a political statement, and was made for political gain.

Like what.

[Imperializt Russia]

A large minority dislike muslims and label all muslims terrorists so it's hard

Evidence for such a claim?

The EDL, Britain First, UKIP rhetoric.

[Proctopeo]

Evidence for such a claim?

The EDL, Britain First, UKIP rhetoric.

That's not specific and potentially subjective.
I was thinking a poll with a large sample size, or something.

[Imperializt Russia]

What do you mean "subjective"? Britain First's leaders used to film themselves more or less invading mosques and shouting at the imams until they got prosecuted for it.