The Manchester Attacks Megathread

[Eastfield Lodge]

So basically nothing you've suggested would have stopped any terrorist attack on British soil for the last half-century.

Vetting, crime watch, and stricter borders. What is your suggestion?

What do you mean by vetting and crime watch? Also, how strict are these borders?

[Costa Fierro]

According to NBC the bomber had ties to AQ and had received training in Libya.

If true I'm actually kinda shocked it wasn't a Daeshbag for once.

It's like Al-Qaeda and Daesh are fighting it out to see who can be the most deplorable group of human beings possible.

[Vassenor]

Vetting, crime watch, and stricter borders. What is your suggestion?

What do you mean by vetting and crime watch? Also, how strict are these borders?

It's pretty much a stock spiel that the best response is more guns and less brown people.

[Randsbeik]

I said "mitigate." Carry could prevent shootings. As for explosives and suicide bombers, the most we can do is pat-downs and vetting; Unless everybody is walking around naked, somebody spontaneously detonating really can't be "stopped" unless they give some sort of signal.



For some reason I can't quote your post on crime. In the states, it's worse in some places than others; rural Texas is doing much better than Detroit. Maybe it has more to do with the people behind the gun instead of the guns themselves.

People should be able to defend themselves.

In the past 40 years in the UK, there have only been 3 mass shootings. Pretty much all other gun deaths are accidental or in gang violence. In fact, there were less gun homicides in 2015/2016 in the UK than fatalities in this attack.

So criminals are getting guns anyway and gun murder in the UK isn't a huge concern?

[Tolerant Fellow]

What do you mean by vetting and crime watch? Also, how strict are these borders?

It's pretty much a stock spiel that the best response is more guns and less brown people.

Wow, that's definitely not a strawman.

[Alvecia]

In the past 40 years in the UK, there have only been 3 mass shootings. Pretty much all other gun deaths are accidental or in gang violence. In fact, there were less gun homicides in 2015/2016 in the UK than fatalities in this attack.

So criminals are getting guns anyway and gun murder in the UK isn't a huge concern?

Gun crime in the UK is probably at a comfortably negligble level. You can never get rid of it completely. Adding more guns into the equation will probably only cause more problems than it's worth.

[Tolerant Fellow]

So criminals are getting guns anyway and gun murder in the UK isn't a huge concern?

Gun crime in the UK is probably at a comfortably negligble level. You can never get rid of it completely. Adding more guns into the equation will probably only cause more problems than it's worth.

Really? Because Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership, and somehow, they have very low gun crime rates.

Huh.

[Randsbeik]

What do you mean by vetting and crime watch? Also, how strict are these borders?

It's pretty much a stock spiel that the best response is more guns and less brown people.

"Brown people" has nothing to do with it. This is ideology. You know, the thing that people choose to follow. If it means closing off borders to countries with high potential for terrorists and watching neighborhoods more prone to terrorist activity, then that is what must be done.

I'd really like to hear your solution, though.

[Caracasus]

In the past 40 years in the UK, there have only been 3 mass shootings. Pretty much all other gun deaths are accidental or in gang violence. In fact, there were less gun homicides in 2015/2016 in the UK than fatalities in this attack.

So criminals are getting guns anyway and gun murder in the UK isn't a huge concern?

Of course criminals are getting guns. They're not getting that many though, and the rate of gun related murders is pretty low. I think the UK ranks about 6th (?) from the bottom of the table in terms of gun related deaths.

[Tolerant Fellow]

It's pretty much a stock spiel that the best response is more guns and less brown people.

"Brown people" has nothing to do with it. This is ideology. You know, the thing that people choose to follow. If it means closing off borders to countries with high potential for terrorists and watching neighborhoods more prone to terrorist activity, then that is what must be done.

I'd really like to hear your solution, though.

Correct me if I am mistaken Vassenor, but wouldn't your solution be to allow more migrant in and become even more "tolerant?"

[Alvecia]

Gun crime in the UK is probably at a comfortably negligble level. You can never get rid of it completely. Adding more guns into the equation will probably only cause more problems than it's worth.

Really? Because Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership, and somehow, they have very low gun crime rates.

Huh.

America has gun ownership and their gun crime is through the roof.

See I can use single examples too.

[Tolerant Fellow]

Really? Because Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership, and somehow, they have very low gun crime rates.

Huh.

America has gun ownership and their gun crime is through the roof.

See I can use single examples too.

Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership. America has voluntary gun ownership.

[Eastfield Lodge]

In the past 40 years in the UK, there have only been 3 mass shootings. Pretty much all other gun deaths are accidental or in gang violence. In fact, there were less gun homicides in 2015/2016 in the UK than fatalities in this attack.

So criminals are getting guns anyway and gun murder in the UK isn't a huge concern?

On average, not really.
Also, my stats are wrong, the number I was talking about was the number of fatal firearm injuries (so, not necessarily homicide), and in 15/16 there were 26.

[Alvecia]

America has gun ownership and their gun crime is through the roof.

See I can use single examples too.

Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership. America has voluntary gun ownership.

And they also have over 10 times as much gun crime as the UK. We don't need guns.

[Randsbeik]

Really? Because Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership, and somehow, they have very low gun crime rates.

Huh.

America has gun ownership and their gun crime is through the roof.

See I can use single examples too.

America's population is 318 million.

[Alvecia]

America has gun ownership and their gun crime is through the roof.

See I can use single examples too.

America's population is 318 million.

Per captia

[Tolerant Fellow]

Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership. America has voluntary gun ownership.

And they also have over 10 times as much gun crime as the UK. We don't need guns.

Of course not. Enjoy your government-controlled internet, hate speech laws, censorship, and CCTV cameras.

[Eastfield Lodge]

America has gun ownership and their gun crime is through the roof.

See I can use single examples too.

Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership. America has voluntary gun ownership.

So you're saying that it's an unreasonable assumption that, in a country where gun ownership is heavily restricted, loosening restrictions will increase gun crime.

[Caracasus]

Gun crime in the UK is probably at a comfortably negligble level. You can never get rid of it completely. Adding more guns into the equation will probably only cause more problems than it's worth.

Really? Because Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership, and somehow, they have very low gun crime rates.

Huh.

Bit of a myth there, Switzerland doesn't have mandatory gun ownership.

Having said that, the really quite high rates of gun deaths and murders in the US compared to other nations with a similar pattern (or higher) of gun ownership possibly points to factors other than simply "which country has the most guns per person".

Still, can't help think that this is a bit of a side track from the topic. So yes - once again (not to you as I don't think you've made the argument) how would conceal carry laws stop terrorist attacks?

[Alvecia]

And they also have over 10 times as much gun crime as the UK. We don't need guns.

Of course not. Enjoy your government-controlled internet, hate speech laws, censorship, and CCTV cameras.

None of which has anything to do with guns.

[Randsbeik]

America's population is 318 million.

Per captia

We also have ghettos. The culture in Detroit is far different from that in, say, Billings or Cheyenne.

[Alvecia]

Per captia

We also have ghettos. The culture in Detroit is far different from that in, say, Billings.

So?

[Tolerant Fellow]

Of course not. Enjoy your government-controlled internet, hate speech laws, censorship, and CCTV cameras.

None of which has anything to do with guns.

The point of the 2nd Amendment is to protect citizens from a tyrannical government. In the UK, because you failed to recognize gun rights, you have a tyrannical government.

[Randsbeik]

We also have ghettos. The culture in Detroit is far different from that in, say, Billings.

So?

People in some places have a stronger inclination to crime.

[Tolerant Fellow]

We also have ghettos. The culture in Detroit is far different from that in, say, Billings.

So?

You don't think culture could in any way affect gun crime?