by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 12:03 pm
by New Pantuxia » Sun May 21, 2017 3:29 pm
by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 3:34 pm
New Pantuxia wrote:Democracy just doesn't work. It naturally leads to communism amd destroys nations.
by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 3:46 pm
Korica wrote:Oh Democracy, where you vote for which party is going to continue to serve the needs of capitalist class and not the people.
by New Pantuxia » Sun May 21, 2017 3:50 pm
Korica wrote:Oh Democracy, where you vote for which party is going to continue to serve the needs of capitalist class and not the people.
by Korica » Sun May 21, 2017 3:57 pm
New Pantuxia wrote:Korica wrote:Oh Democracy, where you vote for which party is going to continue to serve the needs of capitalist class and not the people.
I agree, but the power shouldn't go to "the people" it should go to the strong and most capable of ensuring the survival of the nation and its folk.
by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 4:15 pm
by Rhodevus » Sun May 21, 2017 4:17 pm
Rodrania wrote:Rhod, I f*cking love you, man. <3
Divergia wrote:The Canadian Polar-Potato-Moose-Cat has spoken!
Beiluxia wrote:Is it just me, or does your name keep getting better the more I see it?
by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 4:18 pm
Rhodevus wrote:Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
-quote from Churchill
by Nakena » Sun May 21, 2017 4:22 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Rhodevus wrote:Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
-quote from Churchill
That doesn't really answer any of the questions presented in the OP. Why is democracy better than other forms of government? And, just as importantly, at what point does democracy devolve into oligarchy?
by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 4:23 pm
Nakena wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:That doesn't really answer any of the questions presented in the OP. Why is democracy better than other forms of government? And, just as importantly, at what point does democracy devolve into oligarchy?
Peaceful transition of power and generally but not necessarily higher degrees of accountability.
by Genivaria » Sun May 21, 2017 4:27 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Rhodevus wrote:Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
-quote from Churchill
That doesn't really answer any of the questions presented in the OP. Why is democracy better than other forms of government? And, just as importantly, at what point does democracy devolve into oligarchy?
by Rhodevus » Sun May 21, 2017 4:28 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Rhodevus wrote:Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
-quote from Churchill
That doesn't really answer any of the questions presented in the OP. Why is democracy better than other forms of government? And, just as importantly, at what point does democracy devolve into oligarchy?
Rodrania wrote:Rhod, I f*cking love you, man. <3
Divergia wrote:The Canadian Polar-Potato-Moose-Cat has spoken!
Beiluxia wrote:Is it just me, or does your name keep getting better the more I see it?
by Tekeristan » Sun May 21, 2017 4:29 pm
by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 4:30 pm
Genivaria wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:That doesn't really answer any of the questions presented in the OP. Why is democracy better than other forms of government? And, just as importantly, at what point does democracy devolve into oligarchy?
I'd say democracy is 'better' due to tendency to be more stable.
An authoritarian government that suppresses all other ideologies can only be overthrown through force and violence, whereas pluralistic democracies have a culture of "let's agree to disagree, go vote, and go back to our coffee".
As to the criticism of 'policies aren't based on what's most effective but most popular' is technically true but isn't really a valid criticism because you can make the same criticism of autocracies and oligarchies where policy is based on what the one or the few want.
The HOPE is that a government that is bound to the will of the people will be more responsive to the actual needs and rights of the people.
by Genivaria » Sun May 21, 2017 4:33 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Genivaria wrote:I'd say democracy is 'better' due to tendency to be more stable.
An authoritarian government that suppresses all other ideologies can only be overthrown through force and violence, whereas pluralistic democracies have a culture of "let's agree to disagree, go vote, and go back to our coffee".
As to the criticism of 'policies aren't based on what's most effective but most popular' is technically true but isn't really a valid criticism because you can make the same criticism of autocracies and oligarchies where policy is based on what the one or the few want.
The HOPE is that a government that is bound to the will of the people will be more responsive to the actual needs and rights of the people.
But what if the government shouldn't be changed, and is being effective, but is still unpopular? In that case, it shouldn't be voted out.
My criticism is more that pure democracy would be more vulnerable to radical ideological change over short periods of time.
by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 4:38 pm
Genivaria wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:But what if the government shouldn't be changed, and is being effective, but is still unpopular? In that case, it shouldn't be voted out.
My criticism is more that pure democracy would be more vulnerable to radical ideological change over short periods of time.
To my understanding historically speaking most people don't care for radically change unless a government is REALLY bad, and there's something seriously strange going on if a government is both very effective at addressing the needs of the people and still very unpopular.
by Italios » Sun May 21, 2017 4:39 pm
by Italios » Sun May 21, 2017 4:40 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Genivaria wrote:I'd say democracy is 'better' due to tendency to be more stable.
An authoritarian government that suppresses all other ideologies can only be overthrown through force and violence, whereas pluralistic democracies have a culture of "let's agree to disagree, go vote, and go back to our coffee".
As to the criticism of 'policies aren't based on what's most effective but most popular' is technically true but isn't really a valid criticism because you can make the same criticism of autocracies and oligarchies where policy is based on what the one or the few want.
The HOPE is that a government that is bound to the will of the people will be more responsive to the actual needs and rights of the people.
My criticism is more that pure democracy would be more vulnerable to radical ideological change over short periods of time.
by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 4:41 pm
Italios wrote:The biggest failure of democracy's part is its subversion to the power of money. We see this in America and its corruption of the democratic system, but these problems are solvable as shown in places like Sweden in which donations of money to political parties are banned and they receive funding based on the size of their membership. Thus, parties are able to grow naturally and gain popularity with minimal corruption.
by Bakery Hill » Sun May 21, 2017 4:41 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:So, we are faced with two premises:
1) Pure democracy is not inherently desirable, and
2) Large republics are oligarchies, not democracies
1) Is democracy inherently relativistic? If not, how does it avoid becoming so?
2) In-practice, do existing political organizations (specifically, political parties) adhere to the Iron Law of Oligarchy (i.e. are they ruled by a politically educated elite).
3) Are there large, successful governments, either historically or currently-existing, that did not rely on the organization which, according to Michels, creates oligarchy in all cases?
by United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 21, 2017 4:43 pm
Italios wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:My criticism is more that pure democracy would be more vulnerable to radical ideological change over short periods of time.
What's the issue with that? The point of democracy is that it bends with the will of the people and is subject then to whatever radical ideological change they experience. If it's not a reflection of the people, it's not working like it's supposed to.
by Italios » Sun May 21, 2017 4:43 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Italios wrote:The biggest failure of democracy's part is its subversion to the power of money. We see this in America and its corruption of the democratic system, but these problems are solvable as shown in places like Sweden in which donations of money to political parties are banned and they receive funding based on the size of their membership. Thus, parties are able to grow naturally and gain popularity with minimal corruption.
But that isn't really what causes oligarchy to evolve in democracy. Oligarchy isn't necessarily rule by the rich, it's rule by an elite of any kind, and even in the Nordic countries, there is a political elite that control the basic aspects of public policy.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Anarcopia, Baidu [Spider], Cyptopir, Fartsniffage, Keltionialang, Majestic-12 [Bot], Neu California, Rusrunia, The Southern Dependencies, Tungstan
Advertisement