Ukraine blocks Russian propaganda.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Rather dumb on their part. They're hurting themselves far more than they are hurting Russia. It's especially bad because Crimea was never supposed to be a full part of the Ukraine and the Ukraine treated them like crap. Hopefully this doesn't escalate, but the Ukraine really needs to stop stoking the fire when things have been fairly peaceful for a while. Nobody wants war there and pissing off Russia or the Ukraine is just stupid.

The Ukraine is an incorrect name, it's like calling Germany "the Germany"

Unless I'm mistaken, Ukraine means "borderland", so, "The Ukraine" is the correct term, as it means "the borderland". Moreover, the use of "the Ukraine" in English is long-attested to, especially in British-English.

It's like saying that "Rumania" or "Burma" is incorrect. It's an older name, but it checks out.

[Harkback Union]

We are now in a very strange position where Western right-wingers who were typically the chicken hawks during the Cold War are now siding with Russia and refusing to recognize that a new low-level Cold War is slowly but surely developing.

Meanwhile, left-wingers who were typically the doves and Soviet apologists during the Cold War have suddenly made a hundred and eighty degree turn and are the first to concede that modern Russia is a threat to Western democracy.

Ukraine is possibly the best indicator of this; the right-wingers who should be concerned about Russian expansionism into Europe are cheering Putin on, despite the fact Ukraine actually has a right-wing government itself, while a lot of leftist liberals are condemning the Russian involvement there and calling for closer EU/US support for Ukraine, again despite the fact Ukraine actually has a right-wing government.

The fact that these attitudes have changed so much is an indicator of the extreme polarization of politics and the spirit of partisanship overriding common sense.

That's a pretty good summary of the situation!

[Gallia-]

Rather dumb on their part. They're hurting themselves far more than they are hurting Russia. It's especially bad because Crimea was never supposed to be a full part of the Ukraine and the Ukraine treated them like crap. Hopefully this doesn't escalate, but the Ukraine really needs to stop stoking the fire when things have been fairly peaceful for a while. Nobody wants war there and pissing off Russia or the Ukraine is just stupid.

The Ukraine is an incorrect name, it's like calling Germany "the Germany"

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Ukraine is the modern form and anyone who uses "the Ukraine" vicariously is ignorant or anti-Ukrainian.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The Ukraine is an incorrect name, it's like calling Germany "the Germany"

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Or, like me, grew up on British WWII documentaries.

[San Marlindo]

The Ukraine is an incorrect name, it's like calling Germany "the Germany"

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Maybe, but I had a colleague who worked in Ukraine as an agricultural advisor in the early 2000s and she still calls it "the Ukraine". Sometimes I say "the Ukraine", probably because I picked it up from her.

I don't think it's that clear cut as you make it out to be.

Not everybody who adds a "the" in front of the country's name is a Russian apologist or a middle-aged relic of the Soviet era.

[Thermodolia]

To be fair most Polish were perfectly fine with Russia taking over when the Nazis knocked on their other door.

Ya because of the fucking Nazis dude

[Thermodolia]

The Ukraine is an incorrect name, it's like calling Germany "the Germany"

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Ukraine is the modern form and anyone who uses "the Ukraine" vicariously is ignorant or anti-Ukrainian.

Or we've used for longer than most have been alive

[Nanakai]

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Or, like me, grew up on British WWII documentaries.

In German language, it's also "die Ukraine" (the Ukraine), like "in der Ukraine" (in the Ukraine). Leaving out the article would be grammatically wrong. You also wouldn't say, "I live in USA" ("the USA" or just "America") or "in Netherlands".
Some countries just have articles in languages that have articles after all. However, German generally uses more articles for foreign countries ("der Iran", "der Kongo", "die Schweiz", "der Irak", "der Tschad", "der Sudan", "das Kosovo" etc. - German grammar requires the use of these articles).
Another fun fact - whereas "in" would be "в" ("v") in Russian, you say "на Украине" ("na Ukrayine"), literally "on the Ukraine", as if it was an island - though, some people bother this practice.
But it's just language history. No one knows why so, but deal with it.

[San Marlindo]

To be fair most Polish were perfectly fine with Russia taking over when the Nazis knocked on their other door.

Yes, they were fine with it until being rounded up by the NKVD and slaughtered during the Katyn Massacre.

[Gallia-]

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Maybe, but I had a colleague who worked in Ukraine as an agricultural advisor in the early 2000s and she still calls it "the Ukraine". Sometimes I say "the Ukraine", probably because I picked it up from her.

I don't think it's that clear cut as you make it out to be.

Not everybody who adds a "the" in front of the country's name is a Russian apologist or a middle-aged relic of the Soviet era.

It's sourced from middle aged people more often, though. Which makes it more of a benign ignorance.

Old memes die hard I guess?

[Thermodolia]

Maybe, but I had a colleague who worked in Ukraine as an agricultural advisor in the early 2000s and she still calls it "the Ukraine". Sometimes I say "the Ukraine", probably because I picked it up from her.

I don't think it's that clear cut as you make it out to be.

Not everybody who adds a "the" in front of the country's name is a Russian apologist or a middle-aged relic of the Soviet era.

It's sourced from middle aged people more often, though. Which makes it more of a benign ignorance.

Old memes die hard I guess?

It doesn't have anything to do with ignorance. It's mostly force of habit. When you've and everyone around you used the term for the last 20 years it's kinda hard to shake off

[Nanakai]

It's sourced from middle aged people more often, though. Which makes it more of a benign ignorance.

Old memes die hard I guess?

It doesn't have anything to do with ignorance. It's mostly force of habit. When you've and everyone around you used the term for the last 20 years it's kinda hard to shake off

Yeah, that's it - it took me like 20 years to stop referring to Kosovo as "Kosmet" - I also know people who still say "Yugoslavia" ... ^^

EDIT - addendum: Just a few years ago, most Central Europeans were glad if they could even find Ukrayina (gonna use the original name from now on so no one complains) on a map. For many people here, it was still "Russia-ish". What do you expect?

[Oneracon]

This isn't really blocking "propaganda", it's more like a thinly veiled type of sanction against Russian tech companies.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

If it's really propaganda, they shouldn't be afraid of it. Instead, they should counter it with truth. This is just a cheap pass at sanctions against Russian tech companies.

May I add, while that "referendum" on the Crimean annexation was a sham (and everyone knows it), the fact that Crimea is majority Russian, in both ethnicity and linguistics, and the fact that they long resented the Ukraine taking it because a drunkard transferred it in the fifties. Most people in Crimea were totally in on the annexation.

If anything, the poll looked so skewed because the opponents were protesting the vote and stayed home.

[Thermodolia]

This isn't really blocking "propaganda", it's more like a thinly veiled type of sanction against Russian tech companies.

Ya. I'm not the biggest fan of Russia but pulling stunts like this is making me less inclined to support Ukraine

[TURTLESHROOM II]

We are now in a very strange position where Western right-wingers who were typically the chicken hawks during the Cold War are now siding with Russia and refusing to recognize that a new low-level Cold War is slowly but surely developing. Meanwhile, left-wingers who were typically the doves and Soviet apologists during the Cold War have suddenly made a hundred and eighty degree turn.

[...]

The fact that these attitudes have changed so much is an indicator of the extreme polarization of politics and the spirit of partisanship overriding common sense.

As to why the rightists are cheering Putin on while the leftists hate Russia, it's because Russia has changed dramatically in its politics. Russia is no longer a leftist state, nor is it a Marxist state, or even a shell of one like China.

Europe has dove into the ditch of the worst leftism and multiculturalism has to offer. Europe is overwhelmed by violent and unassimilated migrants, and to rightists, they no longer care for their interests. The continent is burning and, as Brexit's win and Front National's second place crushing defeat showed, the people over there are getting angrier and angrier.

Do rightists want Putin to conquer Poland or NATO? No, but they are cheering Russia on because, in their mind, Russia is probably the last sane country in Europe, in comparison to what else Europe has to offer. It's not a flip-flop or a polarized case of ignorance. Russia has changed dramatically, even if its interests have not, and with that change, it gets new supporters and new opponents.

As to Russia being a threat to Western democracy, that will only happen if you border them. All Russians did in the USA election was expose facts that the media- which was near-unanimously in the tank for Clinton -refused to even speak of.

The irony that one of the absolute most corrupt nations on the earth gave us the transparency we deserved speaks magnitudes about what our country's press has become.

---

People seem to forget that America has its own propaganda machine as well. A group called the Media Research Center (which, unlike many rightist organizations, actually cites their sources) tracks and identifies (with cited dates, times, and people) what they perceive as leftist bias in the media, or unequal coverage of the left and right.

No President has ever faced the degree of unabashed hatred and blood sport actions Trump has faced. Of the major news channels, all but one literally cheer when they are able to dig up even the most consquential "dirt" on Trump.

With three fourths of its coverage of Trump being negative, why do you blame Trump fans for defending everything he does? They are out for blood and will not rest until he is Impeached on phony charges.

---

Does that mean I support a crackdown on the media? Absolutely not. An unrestricted press is the cornerstone of freedom, and the fact remains that the American media elected to become a leftist shilling arm of the Democrat Party of its own accord. We cannot, and must not, censor them. You should NEVER censor a free press. EVER.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

It doesn't have anything to do with ignorance. It's mostly force of habit. When you've and everyone around you used the term for the last 20 years it's kinda hard to shake off

I still say "schoolhouse" and use "Chinaman" as a demonym for someone from China, likening it to "Scotsman" or "Englishman", etc. . They may be archaic and "obsolete" words, but they, like "the Ukraine", are still correct terms and have absolutely no intent of malice or hatred.

Clinging to tradition, even linguistically, is not an act of malice or hatred, unless you continue to use slurs in public (a la the N-word).

[Shofercia]

That's like arguing that Russia banned Google in order to prevent Russians from installing backdoor American Spyware... that is essentially the argument that you're making. As a consumer, I should have a choice whether I want to risk FSB/FBI accessing my computer, but no one else, (except the Israelis, but their spy agencies are so good, they access everything anyways,) or to deny FSB/FBI that, and risk a computer virus or ransomware. As a consumer, shouldn't that be my choice?

Not when that software is a potential threat to national security. Kaspersky may be completely innocuous at the moment, or not, but as it is controlled entirely from Russia the risk it might be mobilized to attack Ukraine is quite significant. What is a good decision for one person can be detrimental to everyone - cases like these is precisely when the government should step in.

Has Kaspersky ever been used to conduct such an attack? No. Yet the fear mongering continues, because when you have no facts, the only thing you can resort to, is fear mongering.

It's always important to read what's actually going on: Only Ukrainians with a biometric passport will be allowed to travel to the EU visa-free, for 90 days in a 180-day period. The visa-free programme may be used for tourism, visiting friends or relatives, or for business trips, but not to work.

So how are most Ukrainians going to be able to visit the EU for tourism, or on business trips? The whole push was to enable Ukrainians to integrate with the EU, rather than simply provide an easier way for wealthy Ukrainians to party in the EU.

I am aware. But it is a concrete measure that boosts ties between Ukraine and Europe. There is nothing but good there. I do not actually think it would be good for Ukrainians to emigrate en masse, not that they would ever be allowed. Considering the countries demographic crisis this would risk dissolving it completely; that Europeans are unwilling to allow this is probably a blessing in disguise.

Anything which encourages Ukrainians to go to Europe more and Russia less is to be celebrated. In the very long run strengthening Ukrainians subjective identification with Europe is essential to choking off the Russian fifth column in Ukraine. With a little luck those young Ukrainians who are able to travel more in Europe will also begin to speak more English. But these things take time.

Ukraine's economy needs a cash infusion to survive. One of the ways to do so, is through remittances. By specifically removing the right to work in the EU from the visa, the EU ensured that it won't boost Ukraine's economy. Not that I blame the EU, they're just looking out for their own interests. And people don't learn how to speak English through tourism, anymore than they learn how to speak French, German, Italian, etc, through tourism.

Not when that software is a potential threat to national security. Kaspersky may be completely innocuous at the moment, or not, but as it is controlled entirely from Russia the risk it might be mobilized to attack Ukraine is quite significant. What is a good decision for one person can be detrimental to everyone - cases like these is precisely when the government should step in.

The answer is "not", btw: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... sian-spies

Always read the article, not just the clickbait title. Right below the clickbait title, they have evidence: Kaspersky Lab has published reports on alleged electronic espionage by the U.S., Israel, and the U.K.—but hasn't looked as aggressively at Russia

The article then whines about change at the top, which allegedly brought in shpies, without mentioning a single name. Yet another "stellar proof" that they use is a Japanese Advertisement. And the board meetings switched from English to Russian, according to an anonymous source... shpies, dey allz b shpies!

In 2014 after a handful of senior managers, including Chief Technology Officer Nikolay Grebennikov and North American President Steve Orenberg, asked Kaspersky to consider appointing a new CEO and retaining only the chairmanship of the company, he fired them.

But, but, but, according to the article: In 2012, however, Kaspersky Lab abruptly changed course. Since then, high-level managers have left or been fired, their jobs often filled by people with closer ties to Russia’s military or intelligence services.

So Kaspersky refused a directive from the Kremlin? Or the article is flat out fear mongering. Take your pick. Because one part of the article claims that Grebennikov has ties to Russian secret service, and another says that Kaspersky fired him, allegedly to promote ties to Russian secret service. Damn Bloomberg, you can't even fear monger the right way, how very pathetic.

So who would fear monger against Kaspersky? How about their competitors?

In head-to-head tests, Kaspersky Lab’s software still performs well against competitors.

Ahhh yes, the Capitalism of the neoconservatives and neoliberals - if they're better Capitalists than us, we ban them.

[Shofercia]

I wonder if NS could get a boost by sporting a "NOW BANNED IN UKRAINE" ribbon.

We should send Poroshenko a bunch of pictures of pro-Russian posts on NS

And then he bans MGC on account of being too drunk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFo6-TLGzk (@0:23)

We are now in a very strange position where Western right-wingers who were typically the chicken hawks during the Cold War are now siding with Russia and refusing to recognize that a new low-level Cold War is slowly but surely developing.

Meanwhile, left-wingers who were typically the doves and Soviet apologists during the Cold War have suddenly made a hundred and eighty degree turn and are the first to concede that modern Russia is a threat to Western democracy.

Ukraine is possibly the best indicator of this; the right-wingers who should be concerned about Russian expansionism into Europe are cheering Putin on, despite the fact Ukraine actually has a right-wing government itself, while a lot of leftist liberals are condemning the Russian involvement there and calling for closer EU/US support for Ukraine, again despite the fact Ukraine actually has a right-wing government.

The fact that these attitudes have changed so much is an indicator of the extreme polarization of politics and the spirit of partisanship overriding common sense.

Erm, there are plenty of right wingers outside of the US that despise Ukraine's "leadership" because of their sheer incompetence. Plenty of US right wingers will challenge Russia in Poland, because that's where the right wing leadership is, at least, somewhat competent. But you're right in that the left wing shift certainly shows the polarization of the country.

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Maybe, but I had a colleague who worked in Ukraine as an agricultural advisor in the early 2000s and she still calls it "the Ukraine". Sometimes I say "the Ukraine", probably because I picked it up from her.

I don't think it's that clear cut as you make it out to be.

Not everybody who adds a "the" in front of the country's name is a Russian apologist or a middle-aged relic of the Soviet era.

Plus some people just like Reagan's delivery, even if we disagree with what he had to say, and picked it up from there. Not everyone who thinks that Reagan was a great speaker, agree with his message.

If it's really propaganda, they shouldn't be afraid of it. Instead, they should counter it with truth. This is just a cheap pass at sanctions against Russian tech companies.

May I add, while that "referendum" on the Crimean annexation was a sham (and everyone knows it), the fact that Crimea is majority Russian, in both ethnicity and linguistics, and the fact that they long resented the Ukraine taking it because a drunkard transferred it in the fifties. Most people in Crimea were totally in on the annexation.

If anything, the poll looked so skewed because the opponents were protesting the vote and stayed home.

The opponents were part of the polls conducted by the three Western Companies. The Referendum Results were a bit skewed, because the opponents stayed at home, but the polling wasn't.

After the Referendum, the Crimeans continued to tell anyone who’d listen in the West, through polling, that they wanted to be with Russia and that in their eyes the Referendum was legitimate, whether it’s Gallup’s 83% figure, GFK’s 82% figure, or Pew’s 88% figure. Irrespective of how the Crimean Referendum was conducted, the Will of the Crimean People is clear: Unity with Russia. The Referendum’s numbers are similar. Roughly 80.4% of Crimeans turned out to vote on the Referendum and voted yes, as did 85.6% of the residents of Sevastopol. Considering that roughly about 15% of Crimeans live in Sevastopol, and 85% in the Peninsula, after adjusting those numbers we get a general voting tally of 81.2%, which is within the legitimate margin of error of 80%. The increase from 75% to 80% can easily be explained by President Putin’s pledge to provide massive economic assistance to Crimea.

[Shofercia]

We are now in a very strange position where Western right-wingers who were typically the chicken hawks during the Cold War are now siding with Russia and refusing to recognize that a new low-level Cold War is slowly but surely developing. Meanwhile, left-wingers who were typically the doves and Soviet apologists during the Cold War have suddenly made a hundred and eighty degree turn.

[...]

The fact that these attitudes have changed so much is an indicator of the extreme polarization of politics and the spirit of partisanship overriding common sense.

As to why the rightists are cheering Putin on while the leftists hate Russia, it's because Russia has changed dramatically in its politics. Russia is no longer a leftist state, nor is it a Marxist state, or even a shell of one like China.

Europe has dove into the ditch of the worst leftism and multiculturalism has to offer. Europe is overwhelmed by violent and unassimilated migrants, and to rightists, they no longer care for their interests. The continent is burning and, as Brexit's win and Front National's second place crushing defeat showed, the people over there are getting angrier and angrier.

Do rightists want Putin to conquer Poland or NATO? No, but they are cheering Russia on because, in their mind, Russia is probably the last sane country in Europe, in comparison to what else Europe has to offer. It's not a flip-flop or a polarized case of ignorance. Russia has changed dramatically, even if its interests have not, and with that change, it gets new supporters and new opponents.

As to Russia being a threat to Western democracy, that will only happen if you border them. All Russians did in the USA election was expose facts that the media- which was near-unanimously in the tank for Clinton -refused to even speak of.

The irony that one of the absolute most corrupt nations on the earth gave us the transparency we deserved speaks magnitudes about what our country's press has become.

---

People seem to forget that America has its own propaganda machine as well. A group called the Media Research Center (which, unlike many rightist organizations, actually cites their sources) tracks and identifies (with cited dates, times, and people) what they perceive as leftist bias in the media, or unequal coverage of the left and right.

No President has ever faced the degree of unabashed hatred and blood sport actions Trump has faced. Of the major news channels, all but one literally cheer when they are able to dig up even the most consquential "dirt" on Trump.

With three fourths of its coverage of Trump being negative, why do you blame Trump fans for defending everything he does? They are out for blood and will not rest until he is Impeached on phony charges.

---

Does that mean I support a crackdown on the media? Absolutely not. An unrestricted press is the cornerstone of freedom, and the fact remains that the American media elected to become a leftist shilling arm of the Democrat Party of its own accord. We cannot, and must not, censor them. You should NEVER censor a free press. EVER.

This is an amazing summary of certain viewpoints, one that needs to be taken into consideration, and debated with facts; sadly, I see more and more major media outlets simply shout it down.

[Bajan]

To be fair most Polish were perfectly fine with Russia taking over when the Nazis knocked on their other door.

Yes, they were fine with it until being rounded up by the NKVD and slaughtered during the Katyn Massacre.

That was in response to someone equating the Federation occupation of Crimea to the Soviet occupation of Eastern Poland in a negative light. Though the Polish were treated pretty poorly under Soviet rule, Crimeans are unlikely to be too ruffled by anything Putin does to them, plus the Crimean public at large appears to support and probably does support this annexation. Time will tell if that continues to hold true though. With Ukraine's current corruption, bitterness, and instability the chances don't seem to be good, but stranger things have happened.

The Katyn Massacre seems odd to bring up considering it involved a limited number of officers, police, and agents. It did sway public opinion significantly, but you're misrepresenting what happened by basically saying the Soviets wanted to wipe out the Polish just as bad as the Nazis did.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about Ukraine's blocking of Russian internet services/websites/media. I'm not sure what people are so surprised about. I don't think many nations would take the moral high ground and NOT handle this similarly to the Ukrainian government if they were essentially in a proxy war with a nearby and historically aggressive and oppressive neighbor. There's a lot of emotions over this conflict.

[San Marlindo]

Yes, they were fine with it until being rounded up by the NKVD and slaughtered during the Katyn Massacre.

That was in response to someone equating the Federation occupation of Crimea to the Soviet occupation of Eastern Poland in a negative light. Though the Polish were treated pretty poorly under Soviet rule, Crimeans are unlikely to be too ruffled by anything Putin does to them, plus the Crimean public at large appears to be and probably does support this annexation. Time will tell if that continues to hold true though. With Ukraine's current corruption, bitterness, and instability the chances don't seem to be good, but stranger things have happened.

The Katyn Massacre seems odd to bring up considering it involved a limited number of officers, police, and agents. It did sway public opinion significantly, but you're misrepresenting what happened by basically saying the Soviets wanted to wipe out the Polish just as bad as the Nazis did.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about Ukraine's blocking of Russian internet services/websites/media. I'm not sure what people are so surprised about. I don't think many nations would take the moral high ground and NOT handle this similarly to the Ukrainian government if they were essentially in a proxy war with a nearby and historically aggressive and oppressive neighbor. There's a lot of emotions over this conflict.

I did not say that the Soviets wanted to exterminate everybody in Poland, like the Nazis.

My point was that most Polish people were not "perfectly fine" with the Soviet occupation, especially after the Katyn Massacre.

Whether it was carried out by a small percentage of the Soviet officialdom or not, as you noted it still turned public opinion against the Soviet government.

Thererefore they weren't "perfectly fine".

You see why I objected to your choice of language?

[Bajan]

That was in response to someone equating the Federation occupation of Crimea to the Soviet occupation of Eastern Poland in a negative light. Though the Polish were treated pretty poorly under Soviet rule, Crimeans are unlikely to be too ruffled by anything Putin does to them, plus the Crimean public at large appears to be and probably does support this annexation. Time will tell if that continues to hold true though. With Ukraine's current corruption, bitterness, and instability the chances don't seem to be good, but stranger things have happened.

The Katyn Massacre seems odd to bring up considering it involved a limited number of officers, police, and agents. It did sway public opinion significantly, but you're misrepresenting what happened by basically saying the Soviets wanted to wipe out the Polish just as bad as the Nazis did.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about Ukraine's blocking of Russian internet services/websites/media. I'm not sure what people are so surprised about. I don't think many nations would take the moral high ground and NOT handle this similarly to the Ukrainian government if they were essentially in a proxy war with a nearby and historically aggressive and oppressive neighbor. There's a lot of emotions over this conflict.

I did not say that the Soviets wanted to exterminate everybody in Poland, like the Nazis.

My point was that most Polish people were not "perfectly fine" with the Soviet occupation, especially after the Katyn Massacre.

Whether it was carried out by a small percentage of the Soviet officialdom or not, as you noted it still turned public opinion against the Soviet government.

Thererefore they weren't "perfectly fine".

You see why I objected to your choice of language?

Yeah. I see now. I should've been more clear and added the qualifier that the Soviet Union was the lesser of the two evils at the time. Not that the Polish had a choice in the matter. It isn't like most people loved Stalin and hated Hitler. It was more like 'this is terrible, but at least we have it better than our countrymen further West.' That and the Soviet Union didn't wreck Poland as badly as the Nazis had did.

[The Lone Alliance]

Yes, they were fine with it until being rounded up by the NKVD and slaughtered during the Katyn Massacre.

That was in response to someone equating the Federation occupation of Crimea to the Soviet occupation of Eastern Poland in a negative light. Though the Polish were treated pretty poorly under Soviet rule, Crimeans are unlikely to be too ruffled by anything Putin does to them, plus the Crimean public at large appears to support and probably does support this annexation. Time will tell if that continues to hold true though. With Ukraine's current corruption, bitterness, and instability the chances don't seem to be good, but stranger things have happened.

The Katyn Massacre seems odd to bring up considering it involved a limited number of officers, police, and agents. It did sway public opinion significantly, but you're misrepresenting what happened by basically saying the Soviets wanted to wipe out the Polish just as bad as the Nazis did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_re ... %80%931946)
Quite frankly the Soviet repression of Poland was almost as bad as the Nazi repression of Poland, if not nearly equal, 100,000 jailed, a forced deportation of nearly a million Polish citizens to the middle of Siberia, executions, suppression, really the Soviets and Nazis seemed to have an equal belief that Poles were subhuman scum who didn't deserve anything.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about Ukraine's blocking of Russian internet services/websites/media. I'm not sure what people are so surprised about. I don't think many nations would take the moral high ground and NOT handle this similarly to the Ukrainian government if they were essentially in a proxy war with a nearby and historically aggressive and oppressive neighbor. There's a lot of emotions over this conflict.

It's more a silly effort that really isn't going to help Ukraine any, if anything this will hurt them more.

[Bajan]

That was in response to someone equating the Federation occupation of Crimea to the Soviet occupation of Eastern Poland in a negative light. Though the Polish were treated pretty poorly under Soviet rule, Crimeans are unlikely to be too ruffled by anything Putin does to them, plus the Crimean public at large appears to support and probably does support this annexation. Time will tell if that continues to hold true though. With Ukraine's current corruption, bitterness, and instability the chances don't seem to be good, but stranger things have happened.

The Katyn Massacre seems odd to bring up considering it involved a limited number of officers, police, and agents. It did sway public opinion significantly, but you're misrepresenting what happened by basically saying the Soviets wanted to wipe out the Polish just as bad as the Nazis did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_re ... %80%931946)
Quite frankly the Soviet repression of Poland was almost as bad as the Nazi repression of Poland, if not nearly equal, 100,000 jailed, a forced deportation of nearly a million Polish citizens to the middle of Siberia, executions, suppression, really the Soviets and Nazis seemed to have an equal belief that Poles were subhuman scum who didn't deserve anything.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about Ukraine's blocking of Russian internet services/websites/media. I'm not sure what people are so surprised about. I don't think many nations would take the moral high ground and NOT handle this similarly to the Ukrainian government if they were essentially in a proxy war with a nearby and historically aggressive and oppressive neighbor. There's a lot of emotions over this conflict.

It's more a silly effort that really isn't going to help Ukraine any, if anything this will hurt them more.

Honestly, the Soviets treated most non-Russians that way. The Nazis at least floated around the idea of completely exterminating Poles and establishing German villages and cities in the ashes of Polish settlements.

It'll cost Russia a lot of business and possibly (though I have no idea if this is true) reduce intelligence Russians can extract from Ukrainian computers, should the claims in this thread that there might be some backdoor built in have any basis in fact. Additionally, from the blocking of the state run media at least, it might positively benefit Ukraine in terms of public opinion. It'll hurt them too, but eventually either some Ukrainian startups are going to replace the services that are now blocked and eventually make this a negligible or minor economic win, or they're going to look outside of Ukraine for some solution. Which seems unlikely but might just happen.