Ukraine blocks Russian propaganda.

[Olerand]

I get why Ukraine would do this, though the ban on the social media platforms itself is a little bit excessive and Erdogan-esque (ironically, considering Erdogan is so Putin-esque).

As for Human Rights Watch, I'm not surprised. They're not really "siding with the Kremlin" as much as they are just... being one of those humanitarian, freedom-loving, the world is a box of chocolate NGOs.

[Shofercia]

I get why Ukraine would do this, though the ban on the social media platforms itself is a little bit excessive and Erdogan-esque (ironically, considering Erdogan is so Putin-esque).

As for Human Rights Watch, I'm not surprised. They're not really "siding with the Kremlin" as much as they are just... being one of those humanitarian, freedom-loving, the world is a box of chocolate NGOs.

I think that Russia should pass a law saying that any president whose country bans VKontakte, is not allowed to sell anything with sugar or chocolate content in Russia. Just for kicks.

[Ilmenia]

The Ukraine is an incorrect name, it's like calling Germany "the Germany"

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Ukraine is the modern form and anyone who uses "the Ukraine" vicariously is ignorant or anti-Ukrainian.

I'm anti-Ukrainian and I don't use "the Ukraine" ever, because I'm Slavic. I know that it used to be used, but even in olden days it was incorrect in my eyes.

[Gloriana Americana]

Putin fucking weeps at the loss of Ukrainian social media users. Obviously this will spell doom for the entire federation.

/s

Seriously, this is fucking stupid censorship that will change nothing.

[Skyhooked]

Putin fucking weeps at the loss of Ukrainian social media users. Obviously this will spell doom for the entire federation.

/s

Seriously, this is fucking stupid censorship that will change nothing.

Yep. Now why folk in governemnt can't get that?

[Gloriana Americana]

Putin fucking weeps at the loss of Ukrainian social media users. Obviously this will spell doom for the entire federation.

/s

Seriously, this is fucking stupid censorship that will change nothing.

Yep. Now why folk in governemnt can't get that?

Because Kiev has a hateboner for all things Russian. The whole country has been like that for several centuries now.

[Skyhooked]

Yep. Now why folk in governemnt can't get that?

Because Kiev has a hateboner for all things Russian. The whole country has been like that for several centuries now.

That's a long story... But not all Ukrainian folk are like that. I am personally from Kiev, yet I don't exactly hate Russia for well... being Russia. While it has few things, which I don't like, I think that censorship is just unreasonable.

[Sovaal]

The Ukraine is an incorrect name, it's like calling Germany "the Germany"

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Ukraine is the modern form and anyone who uses "the Ukraine" vicariously is ignorant or anti-Ukrainian.

That's quite the stretch. I support the Ukrainians and I use "the Ukraine" sometimes.

[Sovaal]

Putin fucking weeps at the loss of Ukrainian social media users. Obviously this will spell doom for the entire federation.

/s

Seriously, this is fucking stupid censorship that will change nothing.

Yep. Now why folk in governemnt can't get that?

That would imply that politicians have and use common sense.

[Greater Cesnica]

Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko has imposed a ban on Russia's biggest social media networks and internet services popular with millions.

His decision is a significant ramping up of sanctions on Ukraine's neighbour for its annexation of Crimea and the continuing conflict in eastern Ukraine.

Those targeted include social networks VK.com and Odnoklassniki, search engine Yandex and the Mail.ru email service.
Ukrainian service providers have been ordered to block access to the sites.

The companies' offices in Ukraine will also face asset freezes and other restrictions although it was not immediately clear how the ban on the services would come into force and whether Ukraine had the technical means to enforce it.

The president's decision to push through a decision by Ukraine's national security council could prove controversial domestically, as VK (VKontakte) alone has an estimated 15 million users in Ukraine and Odnoklassiki (which translates as Classmates) is also widely popular.

Blogger Anton Hodza hailed the ban as a "fantastic opportunity" for Ukrainian start-ups, while another joked that Ukraine's authorities should prepare for riots from angry schoolchildren and pensioners.

Another source:

Ukraine to Block Russian Social Media in Sweeping Sanctions

The order will also require Ukrainian internet providers to block all services of the Yandex internet company, besides its search engine, and the anti-virus companies Kaspersky Lab and Dr Web.

Ukraine also will impose asset freezes and broadcast bans on Russian television channels TV Tsentr, RBK, VGTRK, NTV-Plus, Zvezda, TNT, REN and ORT, the independent Novaya Gazeta newspaper reported. It will also block the Rossiya Segodnya Russian state media conglomerate, the RIA Novosti news site, a branch of the conglomerate, reported.

The order also blacklists the Aeroflot and Transaero airlines, the Rossiya and Gazprombank banks and the defense companies Russian Helicopters and Rosoboroneksport.

Reaction was quite predictable: Russian hackers tried (without success) to DDoS Ukrainian Presidents official webpage.

Also this.

Given the fact, that nearly a half of the daily net audience in Ukraine visits these Russian social networks, this means that soon we will see a panic on Moscow’s stock with the values of these IT-firms plummeting. A deserving response for the hybrid war.

Meanwhile, supposedly neutral and nonpartisan Human Rights Watch sides with the Kremlin:

Ukraine: Revoke Ban on Dozens of Russian Web Companies

Protect Freedom of Expression and Media Pluralism

Ukraine is a party to the European Convention on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, both of which guarantee freedom of expression, including access to information. Only restrictions that are necessary and proportionate for a legitimate purpose may be imposed, and the ban set out in the decree does not pass that test.

In the past two years, Poroshenko has signed similar decrees introducing sanctions. In June 2016, a presidential decree banned 17 Russian journalists, editors, and media executives from traveling to Ukraine. In September 2015, the government banned several hundred Russian individuals and legal entities from entering Ukraine for a year. Among them were 41 journalists and bloggers from several countries, including Russia, Israel, the United Kingdom, and Germany. In May 2016, Poroshenko removed 29 people from the list of those sanctioned.

“In a single move Poroshenko dealt a terrible blow to freedom of expression in Ukraine,” Cooper said. “It’s an inexcusable violation of Ukrainians’ right to information of their choice, and the European Union and Ukraine’s other international partners should immediately call on Ukraine to reverse it.”

Why are some people so clueless? Russia is an adversary state that wages both real and hybrid war against the West. And where there is a War going on you have to limit the propaganda of your enemy. It would be real strange for the Britain or the US to allow Goebbels broadcasts and sponsored media on their territory. Blockage of the enemy agitation and propaganda is an inevitable necessity of the wartime.

What makes people, smart and supposedly honest people into Moscow’s useful idiots? That’s beyond me.

Any thoughts NSG?

UPD: Now with poll!

Well shit. Freedom of expression and speech has gone to shit.

[Shofercia]

Because Kiev has a hateboner for all things Russian. The whole country has been like that for several centuries now.

That's a long story... But not all Ukrainian folk are like that. I am personally from Kiev, yet I don't exactly hate Russia for well... being Russia. While it has few things, which I don't like, I think that censorship is just unreasonable.

Of course not. By Kiev - we mean the couped-in "Government" of Ukraine. They're afraid that Russia will do to them what Putin did to Berezovsky and Khodarkovsky. Hence the "waaaa!"

Aside from those fucks, the others who hate Russians are butthurt losers who wished Hitler would've won. Those two groups aside, Ukrainians are normal people.

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE5-mp5 ... E3E9DF9925

Anti-Putin blogger banned from Ukraine for two tweets. Yep. Whether those tweets had an ounce of humor in them or not can be debated, (he's a really bad comedian,) but they were intended to be jocular tweets. No matter. He's banned from Ukraine for 5 years.

[Skyhooked]

That's a long story... But not all Ukrainian folk are like that. I am personally from Kiev, yet I don't exactly hate Russia for well... being Russia. While it has few things, which I don't like, I think that censorship is just unreasonable.

Of course not. By Kiev - we mean the couped-in "Government" of Ukraine. They're afraid that Russia will do to them what Putin did to Berezovsky and Khodarkovsky. Hence the "waaaa!"

Aside from those fucks, the others who hate Russians are butthurt losers who wished Hitler would've won. Those two groups aside, Ukrainians are normal people.

Some liberals hate Russia too. Cuz let's say, Russia did some not-too-democratic thingies too. But let's not get too deep in that... This story with Putin, Navalny, Nemtsov, Kirill(The one with patricarch title) and other folk, can create a small war on forum.

Edit: I also tend to think, that deeming a public person with different opinion a "threat" is just a sign of weakness. Sign, that state ideology is so weak, that it cannot sustain itself and has to rely on governemnt entirely or else it would fall another victim to natural selection.

Just don't tell my government, or they gonna kick my butt outta my country just for that

[Shofercia]

Of course not. By Kiev - we mean the couped-in "Government" of Ukraine. They're afraid that Russia will do to them what Putin did to Berezovsky and Khodarkovsky. Hence the "waaaa!"

Aside from those fucks, the others who hate Russians are butthurt losers who wished Hitler would've won. Those two groups aside, Ukrainians are normal people.

Some liberals hate Russia too. Cuz let's say, Russia did some not-too-democratic thingies too. But let's not get too deep in that... This story with Putin, Navalny, Nemtsov, Kirill(The one with patricarch title) and other folk, can create a small war on forum.

Edit: I also tend to think, that deeming a public person with different opinion a "threat" is just a sign of weakness. Sign, that state ideology is so weak, that it cannot sustain itself and has to rely on governemnt entirely or else it would fall another victim to natural selection.

Navalny is there to distract from Moscow's corruption, at least that's what I think. He held a meeting in a city outside of Moscow, I think it was Voronezh, not sure, anyways, all 4 supporters showed up. He's not a major player, but very fun to troll. And it's fine to hate the Government, but it's not ok to hate the Country.

Regarding public opinion - it depends on what it is. If the "opinion" is to "slaughter all people of ethnicity XYZ like pigs" then I wouldn't mind seeing whomever holds that opinion behind bars. If the opinion is "country ABC should keep its hands off country QPR" - that can be factually incorrect, but it's not criminal, and should be allowed and debated. As far as Russian Liberals are concerned, at this point they're a lost cause. It'd be interesting to see if they can survive without foreign financing. And for those of them who supported Maidan - perhaps they should move to Ukraine to enjoy the fruits of the policies that they supported and continue to support.

Just don't tell my government, or they gonna kick my butt outta my country just for that

What's your gov't?

[Skyhooked]

Navalny is there to distract from Moscow's corruption, at least that's what I think. He held a meeting in a city outside of Moscow, I think it was Voronezh, not sure, anyways, all 4 supporters showed up. He's not a major player, but very fun to troll. And it's fine to hate the Government, but it's not ok to hate the Country.

Regarding public opinion - it depends on what it is. If the "opinion" is to "slaughter all people of ethnicity XYZ like pigs" then I wouldn't mind seeing whomever holds that opinion behind bars. If the opinion is "country ABC should keep its hands off country QPR" - that can be factually incorrect, but it's not criminal, and should be allowed and debated. As far as Russian Liberals are concerned, at this point they're a lost cause. It'd be interesting to see if they can survive without foreign financing. And for those of them who supported Maidan - perhaps they should move to Ukraine to enjoy the fruits of the policies that they supported and continue to support.

Just don't tell my government, or they gonna kick my butt outta my country just for that

What's your gov't?

"Maidan supporters, who did that in first place are already in Ukraine. And they enjoy the fruits. In form of legal power and ultimate ability to lobby all their interests.(Oligarchs, like Poroshenko) While many of those, who did all the dirty job on that Maidan, blame Russia for all those calamities."

[Shofercia]

Navalny is there to distract from Moscow's corruption, at least that's what I think. He held a meeting in a city outside of Moscow, I think it was Voronezh, not sure, anyways, all 4 supporters showed up. He's not a major player, but very fun to troll. And it's fine to hate the Government, but it's not ok to hate the Country.

Regarding public opinion - it depends on what it is. If the "opinion" is to "slaughter all people of ethnicity XYZ like pigs" then I wouldn't mind seeing whomever holds that opinion behind bars. If the opinion is "country ABC should keep its hands off country QPR" - that can be factually incorrect, but it's not criminal, and should be allowed and debated. As far as Russian Liberals are concerned, at this point they're a lost cause. It'd be interesting to see if they can survive without foreign financing. And for those of them who supported Maidan - perhaps they should move to Ukraine to enjoy the fruits of the policies that they supported and continue to support.




What's your gov't?

"Maidan supporters, who did that in first place are already in Ukraine. And they enjoy the fruits. In form of legal power and ultimate ability to lobby all their interests.(Oligarchs, like Poroshenko) While many of those, who did all the dirty job on that Maidan, blame Russia for all those calamities."

Oligarchs certainly enjoy the fruits of Maidan, but I doubt that many of the 100,000+ crowd that iditiotically supported them, enjoy the fruits. Rumor has it that 500 of them committed suicide. But even the Oligarchs are going to get fucked over in the end. Russia will not bring in anymore gas after December of 2019, and the remittances can also be banned on that date. And then what? Collapse of the economy, radicalization of the population, and Oligarchs being hunted down with pitch forks.

[Skyhooked]

Oligarchs certainly enjoy the fruits of Maidan, but I doubt that many of the 100,000+ crowd that iditiotically supported them, enjoy the fruits. Rumor has it that 500 of them committed suicide. But even the Oligarchs are going to get fucked over in the end. Russia will not bring in anymore gas after December of 2019, and the remittances can also be banned on that date. And then what? Collapse of the economy, radicalization of the population, and Oligarchs being hunted down with pitch forks.

Don't know. Folk like them has sense of such things and may just run before the pitchforks are sharpened. Wonder, what will happen to Kiev after December 2019...

I also wonder, what side do you support?

[Shofercia]

Oligarchs certainly enjoy the fruits of Maidan, but I doubt that many of the 100,000+ crowd that iditiotically supported them, enjoy the fruits. Rumor has it that 500 of them committed suicide. But even the Oligarchs are going to get fucked over in the end. Russia will not bring in anymore gas after December of 2019, and the remittances can also be banned on that date. And then what? Collapse of the economy, radicalization of the population, and Oligarchs being hunted down with pitch forks.

Don't know. Folk like them has sense of such things and may just run before the pitchforks are sharpened. Wonder, what will happen to Kiev after December 2019...

I also wonder, what side do you support?

Crimea, Donetsk, and Lugansk. I think that the only way to bring prosperity to Ukraine is to localize it, and the ones best suited for it are those who won't be in power in Kiev. As far as running, they probably will. Yats, Saak, and that dumb bitch that "reformed" Puerto Rico's economy already ran. I wouldn't be surprised if others ran as well. But the question remains - are the Ukrainians going to be angry enough to go after them outside of Ukraine? Saak has to be constantly on the move to avoid angry Caucasians, and that happens when you try to spill blood by the rivers in a region, and steal people's land - you become truly hated. On the other hand, Chubais is alive in Russia, even though there was an assassination attempt on him, at least one that we know of.

Then there's also the Abramovich approach - fuck that guy's smart. When he realized that the wind was changing, he massively invested in his region, making it thrive. He then invested in other parts of Russia, focusing on fixing housing. Did he do it everywhere? Fuck no. But he did just enough to have people forgive him for his transgressions of the 1990s. Prokhorov also played a key role in bringing up Winter Sports in Russia, and used sports to reduce alcoholism. That's partially why I knew no one was going to come after them. Sure Prokhorov ran for president - but you can do that in Russia, as long as you fulfill your social obligations, which he did. I'm hoping he runs again in 2024, (because face it, Putin will win in 2018,) to spice up that race a bit.

Anyways, we'll see what happens with Ukraine. It comes down to how greedy they are. Are they willing to part with most of their fortune in order to avoid being hunted like dogs for the rest of their lives, or not? Of course there are some for whom there is no forgiveness. In Russia, the only one who's alive, (that I can think of,) is Gorbachev, for Operation Ring. Regarding their Oligarchs, it will be up to the Ukrainians. Are Ukrainians more forgiving than Russians? Than Caucasians? We'll see. Either way, I'm getting popcorn.

[Farnhamia]

It's correct but it hearkens back to Russian domination of Ukraine. The only reason anyone would use "the Ukraine" is because they're antiquated, middle-aged people whose most vivid memories are the Reagan years (or earlier), or because they're pro-Russian narrative.

Ukraine is the modern form and anyone who uses "the Ukraine" vicariously is ignorant or anti-Ukrainian.

I'm anti-Ukrainian and I don't use "the Ukraine" ever, because I'm Slavic. I know that it used to be used, but even in olden days it was incorrect in my eyes.

I'm anti-gravedigging old threads, myself. If a thread hasn't had a new post in more than four weeks, don't post in it.