Ukraine blocks Russian propaganda.

[Thermodolia]

Yes I know that

Sorry, I thought that you thought that Franco purposely made Spain neutral as if he was helping the Spanish people. (On NS forums, I can't know whether somebody knows or doesn't know about history)

Oh no. He was all for himself but that doesn't mean he didn't do some good indirectly. He still could have gone to war but he knew that if he did the citizens would kill him and revolt

[Shofercia]

Russia, compared to the west is one of the most fanatic nations in the world. They want to greb more and more land to free the "opressed russian minority" who were sent to the lands were they are by the USSR itself. They are very, very fanatic as evidenced in Estonia during the bronze soldier controversy (No controversy, a full on riot.), when the removal of a monument that portrayed murderers and kidnappers of Estonian people as heroes. The russian goverment claim no responsibility for the actions of the USSR. I say Go Ukraine for doing this.

If most Estonians think like you do, perhaps you guys need another reminder of what really happened - i.e. a full on boycott of Estonian Products after Estonian "cops" murdered one of the "rioters". If someone's coming at a store with a baseball bat, a store, not a human being, you don't kill him. How'd that work out for your economy? The whole "fuck you, now buy my product" doesn't work in Capitalism, because in a Capitalist economy, people have choices. I'd much rather pay double price for the same product where the owner isn't shouting "fuck you" at me, and the removal of a Bronze Soldier was very much a fuck you to the Russians. It wasn't Stalin; it wasn't Lenin; it was the Statue of a Soldier.

Most of those lands used to be part of Russia for about 300 years. Remember, Tsarist Russia was bigger than the USSR. Russia was at its greatest territorial extent in 1914. Then it lost some land due to WW1 and the Revolution, then the USSR took back most of that land after WW2, and then Russia lost it again with the fall of the USSR.

So, from the Russian point of view, what happened was that some historical regions of Russia broke off and started acting intensely anti-Russian. Imagine if a part of your country that has a different culture from the rest of the country decides to break off, and then says that it was occupied by you during all that time when you lived in the same country and that you are evil and all the people who share your culture don't belong there.

I would be okay, because it's from a different culture. For example, in Estonia during the first republic there were around 2% russians. After the USSR, there were 25% russians in Estonia. Russification was practiced by both USSR and the Russian Empire but the russian minorities in Europe have the largest nation in the world in the as a homeland. Those who say that the regions that broke off from the Empire or the USSR are Russian are very uneducated in history.

If Russification was practiced by the Russian Empire in Estonia, how come the Russian Population in Estonia was only 2%? Welp, there goes your propaganda attempt.

I would be okay, because it's from a different culture. For example, in Estonia during the first republic there were around 2% russians. After the USSR, there were 25% russians in Estonia. Russification was practiced by both USSR and the Russian Empire but the russian minorities in Europe have the largest nation in the world in the as a homeland. Those who say that the regions that broke off from the Empire or the USSR are Russian are very uneducated in history.

It's broadly accurate to compare Russia's colonization of Eastern Europe with other Europeans' colonization of America, TBH.

Even be completely accurate.

http://www.international.ucla.edu/euro/article/139315

Ok, let me repeat the question: if Russification was practiced by the Russian Empire in Estonia, how come the Russian Population in Estonia was only 2%? Also, you're talking about Eastern Europe, but your article is talking about Central Asia. Do you realize that Eastern Europe and Central Asia are actually different regions? And, erm, do you realize that it's rather inaccurate to make that comparison, because Caucasian Tribes and Central Asian Tribes actually raided Russia, whereas the Native Americans didn't cross the Atlantic Ocean, (it's kind of big and hard to miss,) to raid Europe.

[Gallia-]

Russia's eastward expansion is also its largest territorial gain, so that will obviously be the most studied. Clearly that means Russia never colonized Poland, Latvia, or Estonia. No siree.

http://www.lituanus.org/1964/64_2_01_Vardys.html

As an aside, the Russian "annexation" of Crimea is quite similar to the Soviet annexation of the Baltic states in the USSR's most imperialist era.

[Shofercia]

Russia's eastward expansion is also its largest territorial gain, so that will obviously be the most studied. Clearly that means Russia never colonized Poland, Latvia, or Estonia. No siree.

http://www.lituanus.org/1964/64_2_01_Vardys.html

As an aside, the Russian "annexation" of Crimea is quite similar to the Soviet annexation of the Baltic states in the USSR's most imperialist era.

My point: your article was talking about Central Asia, while you claimed that it was talking about Europe.

Your "rebuttal": but Russia did mean things there too!

Doesn't actually say anything about the article, now does it? No siree. As far as what's most studied, that's just another wild guess on your part, completely devoid of any factual backing. Additionally, my query was about the Russian Empire, not the USSR. Good strawmen though, that's 2/2! Here's that query again:

If Russification was practiced by the Russian Empire in Estonia, how come the Russian Population in Estonia was only 2%? Welp, there goes your propaganda attempt.

Do you see the word USSR anywhere in said query?

I could just throw a bit of facts into the fire, and point out that a linguistic study placed the number of people whose primary language was Russian at 4%, and a Soviet census placed the amount of ethnic Russians, in 1922, at 8%, so I'm not even sure where the 2% figure comes from. The laughable part is that both, the 2% and Russification were mentioned in the same argument, which is like saying that "this guy who always scams me, gave me an unbeatable price for an awesome product!" That makes no sense, but you're welcome to respond with "Russia did mean things somewhere, somehow" to that as well.

As far as the Crimean Reclamation is concerned, you're simply wrong: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/ ... w-to-kiev/

[Raventsvo]

nice to see that this thread has completely moved away from the topic

[Constantinopolis]

Most of those lands used to be part of Russia for about 300 years. Remember, Tsarist Russia was bigger than the USSR. Russia was at its greatest territorial extent in 1914. Then it lost some land due to WW1 and the Revolution, then the USSR took back most of that land after WW2, and then Russia lost it again with the fall of the USSR.

So, from the Russian point of view, what happened was that some historical regions of Russia broke off and started acting intensely anti-Russian. Imagine if a part of your country that has a different culture from the rest of the country decides to break off, and then says that it was occupied by you during all that time when you lived in the same country and that you are evil and all the people who share your culture don't belong there.

I would be okay, because it's from a different culture. For example, in Estonia during the first republic there were around 2% russians. After the USSR, there were 25% russians in Estonia. Russification was practiced by both USSR and the Russian Empire but the russian minorities in Europe have the largest nation in the world in the as a homeland. Those who say that the regions that broke off from the Empire or the USSR are Russian are very uneducated in history.

Of course they are not culturally or ethnically Russian, but they absolutely were historical parts of Russia.

Russia has always been a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural state. There has never been a strict and clear line between places inhabited by ethnic Russians and places inhabited by other neighboring cultures and ethnic groups. Even today, within its much-reduced borders, Russia contains many regions where ethnic Russians are a minority - sometimes a very small minority. These regions are the ones that are typically given the status of "republic" within the Russian Federation. Here is a list of them. Notice that six of them (Ingushetia, Chechnya, Dagestan, Tuva, North Ossetia–Alania, and Kabardino-Balkaria) have fewer ethnic Russians than Estonia does. Yet they are historical parts of Russia.

And of course, there has been a great deal of internal migration throughout Russian history. Today, many Russians live in some areas that had practically no ethnic Russians at all 100 years ago. But there are also many people from the other ethnicities who have moved to Moscow or St. Petersburg in search of better jobs. This is fine. People from different nationalities and ethnicities living side by side is a good thing. Of course, it's also true that there is unfortunately a lot of racism in modern Russia, directed against people from those ethnic minorities (because, you guessed it, they are "stealing Russian jobs"). But the solution isn't national segregation.

The problem is, national segregation is precisely what modern Ukraine wants to achieve. And not only that, but they want to segregate Ukrainians from Russians. Not Ingush people, or Tuvans, or Ossetians, or Kalmyks, or any of the other ethnic groups that are genuinely very different from Russians. No. Ukrainians. The ethnic group that is culturally the closest to Russians (or perhaps second-closest, after the Belarusians).

[Sharania]

Why are some of the usual Russophobes so outraged at that decision (absolutely correct, IMO) by the beleaguered Ukrainian state? Where was your indignation and cries when the Russians killed people in Donbass, plundered their houses? Were you crying for Ukrainian blood, for Ukranian orphans, for people, maimed only to satisfy Putin’s desire to get his own “lebensraum” in the form of “Russian World”?

Ukraine has all rights, both moral and judicial, to do everything in its power to repel the aggressor-state.

If there are Russians among you – you should be ashamed for your government. You are abetting Putin and his aggression, and the blood of innocent Ukrainians is on your hands also.

How can you sleep, how can you live without tears, shame, pain, burden of guilt? How can you eat and drink without suffocating from all these deaths and blood? How? How?!

In your place I’d start begging Ukraine and whole civilized world for mercy. On your knees. For centuries to come. That much blood is on your hands.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Why are some of the usual Russophobes so outraged at that decision (absolutely correct, IMO) by the beleaguered Ukrainian state? Where was your indignation and cries when the Russians killed people in Donbass, plundered their houses? Were you crying for Ukrainian blood, for Ukranian orphans, for people, maimed only to satisfy Putin’s desire to get his own “lebensraum” in the form of “Russian World”?

Ukraine has all rights, both moral and judicial, to do everything in its power to repel the aggressor-state.

If there are Russians among you – you should be ashamed for your government. You are abetting Putin and his aggression, and the blood of innocent Ukrainians is on your hands also.

How can you sleep, how can you live without tears, shame, pain, burden of guilt? How can you eat and drink without suffocating from all these deaths and blood? How? How?!

In your place I’d start begging Ukraine and whole civilized world for mercy. On your knees. For centuries to come. That much blood is on your hands.

What does banning the use of an email website do to "repel the aggressor state"?

[MERIZoC]

"All russian people are responsible for the actions of Putin" is a totally rational and not xenophobic take

[Gallia-]

Why are some of the usual Russophobes so outraged at that decision (absolutely correct, IMO) by the beleaguered Ukrainian state? Where was your indignation and cries when the Russians killed people in Donbass, plundered their houses? Were you crying for Ukrainian blood, for Ukranian orphans, for people, maimed only to satisfy Putin’s desire to get his own “lebensraum” in the form of “Russian World”?

Ukraine has all rights, both moral and judicial, to do everything in its power to repel the aggressor-state.

If there are Russians among you – you should be ashamed for your government. You are abetting Putin and his aggression, and the blood of innocent Ukrainians is on your hands also.

How can you sleep, how can you live without tears, shame, pain, burden of guilt? How can you eat and drink without suffocating from all these deaths and blood? How? How?!

In your place I’d start begging Ukraine and whole civilized world for mercy. On your knees. For centuries to come. That much blood is on your hands.

What does banning the use of an email website do to "repel the aggressor state"?

It discourages people from potentially compromising the cyber security of their nation.

If they want to use Russian software and services, they can go to Russia. Ukraine is better off without them.

"All russian people are responsible for the actions of Putin" is a totally rational and not xenophobic take

Putting sanctions on Russia, banning oil exports to Imperial Japan, preventing sales of raw materials used in bombs and missiles to Saddam's Iraq, etc. All just irrational, xenophobic takes on a situation?

This is actually extremely rational. By banning Russian goods and services, most people will find alternative goods and services, either from the West or from Ukraine.

[United Muscovite Nations]

What does banning the use of an email website do to "repel the aggressor state"?

It discourages people from potentially compromising the cyber security of their nation.

If they want to use Russian software and services, they can go to Russia. Ukraine is better off without them.

It also probably screws over thousands of small business who are dependent on mail.ru, as well as cuts people off from communicating with friends and relatives across the border.

[Gallia-]

It discourages people from potentially compromising the cyber security of their nation.

If they want to use Russian software and services, they can go to Russia. Ukraine is better off without them.

It also probably screws over thousands of small business who are dependent on mail.ru, as well as cuts people off from communicating with friends and relatives across the border.

Who cares. They can use Google mail or something.

It serves the oodles of Ukrainian startup software companies that can now sell their products with a diminished fear of Russian market competition drowning them out. By diminishing the national Russian market share of the Ukrainian software market, the government has managed to reduce dependency on Russian services and increase its cyber security against attacks similar to those that have actually killed Ukrainian soldiers.

The only people being hurt are Russian businessmen and Kremlin bureaucrats. Everyone else, at worst, is mildly inconvenienced.

[Conserative Morality]

It also probably screws over thousands of small business who are dependent on mail.ru, as well as cuts people off from communicating with friends and relatives across the border.

Who cares. They can use Google mail or something.

It serves the oodles of Ukrainian startup software companies that can now sell their products with a diminished fear of Russian market competition drowning them out. By diminishing the national Russian market share of the Ukrainian software market, the government has managed to reduce dependency on Russian services and increase its cyber security against attacks similar to those that have actually killed Ukrainian soldiers.

The only people being hurt are Russian businessmen and Kremlin bureaucrats. Everyone else, at worst, is mildly inconvenienced.

Hadn't thought of it that way.

Still not a fan, but it makes more sense this way.

[Gallia-]

Who cares. They can use Google mail or something.

It serves the oodles of Ukrainian startup software companies that can now sell their products with a diminished fear of Russian market competition drowning them out. By diminishing the national Russian market share of the Ukrainian software market, the government has managed to reduce dependency on Russian services and increase its cyber security against attacks similar to those that have actually killed Ukrainian soldiers.

The only people being hurt are Russian businessmen and Kremlin bureaucrats. Everyone else, at worst, is mildly inconvenienced.

Hadn't thought of it that way.

Still not a fan, but it makes more sense this way.

There's a good FT article that explains it sorta.

https://www.ft.com/content/118bd84c-3a3 ... 27b8a20f23

Poroshenko basically justified it as a response to Russian "hybrid war" (I hate this term). VK, Yandex, etc. are metadata goldmines for Russian intelligence agencies that can just get a court order to yank all that stuff and figure out how to attack Ukrainian elections or society at large. Or they could get a court order to tell VK to turn the Ukrainian computers into a huge botnet and attack the military with their own people or whatever. Or mail.ru could be used as a vector for a mass military botnet campaign and would probably be more likely in real life.

All of that stuff happens on the small scale already: Ukrainian troops using Android smartphones were compromised by fake/modified Runet downloads for a little app that would perform firing solution calculations for the D-30 howitzer, but also turned their phones into the radio equivalent of flashing neon signs. It let Russian radio-electronic combat units in the field find and identify the individual phones. When the phone comes back up again you just triangulate the location, send the coordinates to the nearest BM-30 battery, and watch the rockets fly.

e: Oh wait I misremembered/was wrong. Jamming German/Italian radio transmissions were only discussed by the British, they never actually did it. The BBC engineers apparently were worried about collateral damages (jamming their own broadcasts), potential escalation of a 'jamming war' (during the Interwar years anyway), and were worried about potential propaganda backlash.

These are all valuable reasons and true to an extent, but I suppose the situation between WW2 Britain and modern Ukraine is quite different on the identity front that makes these sort of measures necessary. If you want to preserve a fragile national identity, you don't want to expose it to bad memes. You also don't want to expose it to being turned into an army of zombies that might try to batter down the digital gates to the Ministry of Defense or whatever, so I suspect the "botnet" argument has more sway than the "backlash" argument in Ukrainian government circles.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It also probably screws over thousands of small business who are dependent on mail.ru, as well as cuts people off from communicating with friends and relatives across the border.

Who cares. They can use Google mail or something.

It serves the oodles of Ukrainian startup software companies that can now sell their products with a diminished fear of Russian market competition drowning them out. By diminishing the national Russian market share of the Ukrainian software market, the government has managed to reduce dependency on Russian services and increase its cyber security against attacks similar to those that have actually killed Ukrainian soldiers.

The only people being hurt are Russian businessmen and Kremlin bureaucrats. Everyone else, at worst, is mildly inconvenienced.

Let me stop you right here: Ukraine's GDP per capita is less than $3000. I don't see hardly anyone being able to start up a major business in that environment.

[Shofercia]

Why are some of the usual Russophobes so outraged at that decision (absolutely correct, IMO) by the beleaguered Ukrainian state? Where was your indignation and cries when the Russians killed people in Donbass, plundered their houses? Were you crying for Ukrainian blood, for Ukranian orphans, for people, maimed only to satisfy Putin’s desire to get his own “lebensraum” in the form of “Russian World”?

The Russian World is not part of Putin's anything. Putin is the President of the Russian Federation, which is part of a much greater, Russian World. The Russian World's job is to spread Russian Culture. Sometimes Putin likes it; sometimes he doesn't. But unless there's a modern Pushkin out there, it's hard to find an individual who embodies the Russian World, and being a politician, Putin is most certainly not it.

Your hilariously ridiculous attacks against the Russian World aside, (btw, did you know that we maintain a Military Base in California,) the reason that even Russophobes find it ridiculous, is because banning Google doesn't counter American Propaganda; it just makes the country banning Google look like idiots. Again. Ukraine did the exact same thing with Yandex.

Ukraine has all rights, both moral and judicial, to do everything in its power to repel the aggressor-state.

Including drunken military parades: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdr3f3tIo9E

Booze and guns, what could possibly go wrong?

If there are Russians among you – you should be ashamed for your government. You are abetting Putin and his aggression, and the blood of innocent Ukrainians is on your hands also.

The blood of innocent Ukrainians, is, first and foremost, on the hands of those who started the Orange Revolution 2.0, aka Maidan, and still supported it after massive violence erupted.

How can you sleep, how can you live without tears, shame, pain, burden of guilt? How can you eat and drink without suffocating from all these deaths and blood? How? How?!

Very well:



Oh, by the way, that's a typical family in Starving Simferopol, Crimea, while "being brutally oppressed" by Putin. Just an FYI.

In your place I’d start begging Ukraine and whole civilized world for mercy. On your knees. For centuries to come. That much blood is on your hands.

I think that Russia's a civilized, and I'm just not into self-begging. Or begging in general.

[Gallia-]

Who cares. They can use Google mail or something.

It serves the oodles of Ukrainian startup software companies that can now sell their products with a diminished fear of Russian market competition drowning them out. By diminishing the national Russian market share of the Ukrainian software market, the government has managed to reduce dependency on Russian services and increase its cyber security against attacks similar to those that have actually killed Ukrainian soldiers.

The only people being hurt are Russian businessmen and Kremlin bureaucrats. Everyone else, at worst, is mildly inconvenienced.

Let me stop you right here: Ukraine's GDP per capita is less than $3000. I don't see hardly anyone being able to start up a major business in that environment.

Russia's is less than Malaysia's. Less than Romania. Less than Grenada.

It's almost like GDPPC is irrelevant or something.

[Shofercia]

What does banning the use of an email website do to "repel the aggressor state"?

When Saddam banned Google, the US attack on Iraq was stopped in its tracks, the Iraqis rallied, and pushed the Americans out. If you want more bullshit, just read the "Modern History" of Ukraine, where Heracles defends Ukrainians from Russian oppression in Crimea. Before Crimea was Russian.

"All russian people are responsible for the actions of Putin" is a totally rational and not xenophobic take

Completely! And Ukraine will soon conquer Moscow!

What does banning the use of an email website do to "repel the aggressor state"?

It discourages people from potentially compromising the cyber security of their nation.

If they want to use Russian software and services, they can go to Russia. Ukraine is better off without them.

Ahh yes, because we all know that the Ukrainian counter cyber security unit is top notch, and completely impenetrable...

You probably missed it, but a couple of Russian Prankers, Vovan and Leksus, got security updates straight from drunk Governor Igor Kolomoisky. Prankers. Not hackers. Ukraine's Security is top notch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox6MScSWp28

"All russian people are responsible for the actions of Putin" is a totally rational and not xenophobic take

Putting sanctions on Russia, banning oil exports to Imperial Japan, preventing sales of raw materials used in bombs and missiles to Saddam's Iraq, etc. All just irrational, xenophobic takes on a situation?

This is actually extremely rational. By banning Russian goods and services, most people will find alternative goods and services, either from the West or from Ukraine.

He was talking about the Russian People. As in Human Beings. You are talking about sanctions. Do I really have to explain to you how your argument doesn't actually address what he said? Oh, and speaking of Ukraine's rather idiotic sanctions, will the Ukrainians also be finding alternative remittances? Because if Ukraine and Russia are at war, and if anything goes, why shouldn't Russia ban remittances sent to Ukraine?

[Shofercia]

It discourages people from potentially compromising the cyber security of their nation.

If they want to use Russian software and services, they can go to Russia. Ukraine is better off without them.

It also probably screws over thousands of small business who are dependent on mail.ru, as well as cuts people off from communicating with friends and relatives across the border.

And now Gallia will argue that having your business ruined is a minor inconvenience...

It also probably screws over thousands of small business who are dependent on mail.ru, as well as cuts people off from communicating with friends and relatives across the border.

Who cares. They can use Google mail or something.

For starters, people that use their emails for business. People who only have one email account. People whose friends know of only one email account. People who conduct most of their business through a mail.ru business account. Oh, and their customers might care too. A Ukrainian doing business within Russia using mail.ru may get a warmer reception than a Ukrainian doing business within Russia using gmail.

It serves the oodles of Ukrainian startup software companies that can now sell their products with a diminished fear of Russian market competition drowning them out. By diminishing the national Russian market share of the Ukrainian software market, the government has managed to reduce dependency on Russian services and increase its cyber security against attacks similar to those that have actually killed Ukrainian soldiers.

Unless they're planning to operate outside of Ukraine. Which they'd have to, because Ukrainians don't have a whole lot of disposal income floating around. So no, it actually doesn't. Also, preventing troops on active duty from using mail.ru is a lot different from banning mail.ru entirely.

The only people being hurt are Russian businessmen and Kremlin bureaucrats. Everyone else, at worst, is mildly inconvenienced.

The Russians are laughing at it. Pavel Durov, one of the creators of Vkontakte, sent a letter to Poroshenko thanking him for the ban, saying that Vkontakte became a lot more cultured after the ban. The Russians are actually the ones that are mildly hurt, and mostly amused. That is, the Russians living outside of Ukraine. Those inside are fucked, yet again. Here's my stance on it, from the very first page:

Oh well, more quality emigrants for Russia...

It's a strange pattern, where Ukraine's inept "leadership" tries to hurt Russia, but ends up repeatedly bitchslapping itself in the face. If only Maidan supporters were left in Ukraine, I'd be laughing at the whole thing.

[Shofercia]

Let me stop you right here: Ukraine's GDP per capita is less than $3000. I don't see hardly anyone being able to start up a major business in that environment.

Oodles of start ups are coming! Oodles. Led by Elon Musk... oh wait, he said that Ukraine was too corrupt to operate in. But don't worry UMN, oodles are coming!

Russia's is less than Malaysia's. Less than Romania. Less than Grenada.

It's almost like GDPPC is irrelevant or something.

Disposal income is irrelevant to the start up industry? Uhhh... you sure you want to argue that?

[Gallia-]

GDPPC says nothing about disposable income. At all.

It's national GDP divided by population. It provides no data except a tenuous and likely false comparison point for quality of life. Somehow I doubt that the quality of life in France and USA are substantially different, despite a difference in $15,000 or so in GDPPC (PPP). Ditto for Luxembourg and USA, despite Luxembourg being nearly twice the GDPPC of USA.

[MERIZoC]

"All russian people are responsible for the actions of Putin" is a totally rational and not xenophobic take

Putting sanctions on Russia, banning oil exports to Imperial Japan, preventing sales of raw materials used in bombs and missiles to Saddam's Iraq, etc. All just irrational, xenophobic takes on a situation?

This is actually extremely rational. By banning Russian goods and services, most people will find alternative goods and services, either from the West or from Ukraine.

What gave you the indication I was talking about sanctions?

[United Muscovite Nations]

GDPPC says nothing about disposable income. At all.

It's national GDP divided by population. It provides no data except a tenuous and likely false comparison point for quality of life. Somehow I doubt that the quality of life in France and USA are substantially different, despite a difference in $15,000 or so in GDPPC (PPP). Ditto for Luxembourg and USA, despite Luxembourg being nearly twice the GDPPC of USA.

There are parts of the US where quality of life is very low, and the quality of life in Ukraine is demonstrably lower than in most other countries.

[Improved werpland]

People from different nationalities and ethnicities living side by side is a good thing. Of course, it's also true that there is unfortunately a lot of racism in modern Russia, directed against people from those ethnic minorities (because, you guessed it, they are "stealing Russian jobs"). But the solution isn't national segregation.

The solution is for Russia to let go of its slaves and become a relatively homogeneous nation state, without the "multi-culturalism" which is just the product of imperialism as long as Rossiiskii remains separate from Russkii.

[Improved werpland]

"All russian people are responsible for the actions of Putin" is a totally rational and not xenophobic take

Sharania is not being genuine. If you know wheat the "trolls from Olgino" are you will know what a liber*** is.