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Ukraine blocks Russian propaganda.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should Western Democracies Ban Russian soft, anti-viruses and social networks in their countries?

Poll ended at Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:44 pm

Yes
36
34%
No
69
66%
 
Total votes : 105

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Sharania
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Founded: Sep 11, 2015
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Ukraine blocks Russian propaganda.

Postby Sharania » Wed May 17, 2017 1:20 pm

Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko has imposed a ban on Russia's biggest social media networks and internet services popular with millions.

His decision is a significant ramping up of sanctions on Ukraine's neighbour for its annexation of Crimea and the continuing conflict in eastern Ukraine.

Those targeted include social networks VK.com and Odnoklassniki, search engine Yandex and the Mail.ru email service.
Ukrainian service providers have been ordered to block access to the sites.

The companies' offices in Ukraine will also face asset freezes and other restrictions although it was not immediately clear how the ban on the services would come into force and whether Ukraine had the technical means to enforce it.

The president's decision to push through a decision by Ukraine's national security council could prove controversial domestically, as VK (VKontakte) alone has an estimated 15 million users in Ukraine and Odnoklassiki (which translates as Classmates) is also widely popular.

Blogger Anton Hodza hailed the ban as a "fantastic opportunity" for Ukrainian start-ups, while another joked that Ukraine's authorities should prepare for riots from angry schoolchildren and pensioners.


Another source:

Ukraine to Block Russian Social Media in Sweeping Sanctions

The order will also require Ukrainian internet providers to block all services of the Yandex internet company, besides its search engine, and the anti-virus companies Kaspersky Lab and Dr Web.

Ukraine also will impose asset freezes and broadcast bans on Russian television channels TV Tsentr, RBK, VGTRK, NTV-Plus, Zvezda, TNT, REN and ORT, the independent Novaya Gazeta newspaper reported. It will also block the Rossiya Segodnya Russian state media conglomerate, the RIA Novosti news site, a branch of the conglomerate, reported.

The order also blacklists the Aeroflot and Transaero airlines, the Rossiya and Gazprombank banks and the defense companies Russian Helicopters and Rosoboroneksport.


Reaction was quite predictable: Russian hackers tried (without success) to DDoS Ukrainian Presidents official webpage.

Also this.

Given the fact, that nearly a half of the daily net audience in Ukraine visits these Russian social networks, this means that soon we will see a panic on Moscow’s stock with the values of these IT-firms plummeting. A deserving response for the hybrid war.

Meanwhile, supposedly neutral and nonpartisan Human Rights Watch sides with the Kremlin:

Ukraine: Revoke Ban on Dozens of Russian Web Companies

Protect Freedom of Expression and Media Pluralism

Ukraine is a party to the European Convention on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, both of which guarantee freedom of expression, including access to information. Only restrictions that are necessary and proportionate for a legitimate purpose may be imposed, and the ban set out in the decree does not pass that test.

In the past two years, Poroshenko has signed similar decrees introducing sanctions. In June 2016, a presidential decree banned 17 Russian journalists, editors, and media executives from traveling to Ukraine. In September 2015, the government banned several hundred Russian individuals and legal entities from entering Ukraine for a year. Among them were 41 journalists and bloggers from several countries, including Russia, Israel, the United Kingdom, and Germany. In May 2016, Poroshenko removed 29 people from the list of those sanctioned.

“In a single move Poroshenko dealt a terrible blow to freedom of expression in Ukraine,” Cooper said. “It’s an inexcusable violation of Ukrainians’ right to information of their choice, and the European Union and Ukraine’s other international partners should immediately call on Ukraine to reverse it.”


Why are some people so clueless? Russia is an adversary state that wages both real and hybrid war against the West. And where there is a War going on you have to limit the propaganda of your enemy. It would be real strange for the Britain or the US to allow Goebbels broadcasts and sponsored media on their territory. Blockage of the enemy agitation and propaganda is an inevitable necessity of the wartime.

What makes people, smart and supposedly honest people into Moscow’s useful idiots? That’s beyond me.

Any thoughts NSG?

UPD: Now with poll!
Last edited by Sharania on Wed May 17, 2017 3:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Improved werpland
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Postby Improved werpland » Wed May 17, 2017 1:23 pm

Not worth it until they can block people who impersonate others on the Internet as well.

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Zemljoslav Republic
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Founded: May 15, 2017
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Postby Zemljoslav Republic » Wed May 17, 2017 1:31 pm

I believe that blocking of any websites anywhere is unnecessary censorship. For example, this with Ukraine, and Turkey blocking Wikipedia is useless, as anybody can simply use a VPN to continue accessing the sites. Also, many of the blocked websites in Ukraine aren't even harmful in any way. (Disclaimer- I am not Russian) I use Yandex e-mail, because it works well, and I like the organisation. I never saw any kind of subliminal messaging on Yandex, except for the maps, which are drawn to include and exclude countries that Russia does and does not recognize. Anybody educated could spot propaganda, and know what it is, so blocking websites has no use, in my opinion.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed May 17, 2017 1:35 pm

I wonder when Ukraine will take steps to limit "kike" propaganda

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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Wed May 17, 2017 1:40 pm

MERIZoC wrote:I wonder when Ukraine will take steps to limit "kike" propaganda


Yeah, it's pretty sad when they're outright punishing people who killed Nazis.

Like, for fuck's sakes, of all the people to have Neo-Nazi tendencies, you'd think Ukrainians would be the most diametrically opposed to such ideological beliefs.

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Improved werpland
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Postby Improved werpland » Wed May 17, 2017 1:48 pm

MERIZoC wrote:I wonder when Ukraine will take steps to limit "kike" propaganda

That's next after they crucify children to their neoconservative demigods.

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Nea Videssos
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Postby Nea Videssos » Wed May 17, 2017 1:52 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:I wonder when Ukraine will take steps to limit "kike" propaganda


Yeah, it's pretty sad when they're outright punishing people who killed Nazis.

Like, for fuck's sakes, of all the people to have Neo-Nazi tendencies, you'd think Ukrainians would be the most diametrically opposed to such ideological beliefs.


Well, the Ukranians do have forces like the Azov Battalion in their military, and they're pretty far-right. They have members literally wearing Nazi and SS symbols.
Last edited by Nea Videssos on Wed May 17, 2017 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Wed May 17, 2017 2:01 pm

Sharania wrote:Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko has imposed a ban on Russia's biggest social media networks and internet services popular with millions.

His decision is a significant ramping up of sanctions on Ukraine's neighbour for its annexation of Crimea and the continuing conflict in eastern Ukraine.

Those targeted include social networks VK.com and Odnoklassniki, search engine Yandex and the Mail.ru email service.
Ukrainian service providers have been ordered to block access to the sites.

The companies' offices in Ukraine will also face asset freezes and other restrictions although it was not immediately clear how the ban on the services would come into force and whether Ukraine had the technical means to enforce it.

The president's decision to push through a decision by Ukraine's national security council could prove controversial domestically, as VK (VKontakte) alone has an estimated 15 million users in Ukraine and Odnoklassiki (which translates as Classmates) is also widely popular.

Blogger Anton Hodza hailed the ban as a "fantastic opportunity" for Ukrainian start-ups, while another joked that Ukraine's authorities should prepare for riots from angry schoolchildren and pensioners.


Another source:

Ukraine to Block Russian Social Media in Sweeping Sanctions

The order will also require Ukrainian internet providers to block all services of the Yandex internet company, besides its search engine, and the anti-virus companies Kaspersky Lab and Dr Web.

Ukraine also will impose asset freezes and broadcast bans on Russian television channels TV Tsentr, RBK, VGTRK, NTV-Plus, Zvezda, TNT, REN and ORT, the independent Novaya Gazeta newspaper reported. It will also block the Rossiya Segodnya Russian state media conglomerate, the RIA Novosti news site, a branch of the conglomerate, reported.

The order also blacklists the Aeroflot and Transaero airlines, the Rossiya and Gazprombank banks and the defense companies Russian Helicopters and Rosoboroneksport.


Reaction was quite predictable: Russian hackers tried (without success) to DDoS Ukrainian Presidents official webpage.

Also this.

Given the fact, that nearly a half of the daily net audience in Ukraine visits these Russian social networks, this means that soon we will see a panic on Moscow’s stock with the values of these IT-firms plummeting. A deserving response for the hybrid war.

Meanwhile, supposedly neutral and nonpartisan Human Rights Watch sides with the Kremlin:

Ukraine: Revoke Ban on Dozens of Russian Web Companies

Protect Freedom of Expression and Media Pluralism

Ukraine is a party to the European Convention on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, both of which guarantee freedom of expression, including access to information. Only restrictions that are necessary and proportionate for a legitimate purpose may be imposed, and the ban set out in the decree does not pass that test.

In the past two years, Poroshenko has signed similar decrees introducing sanctions. In June 2016, a presidential decree banned 17 Russian journalists, editors, and media executives from traveling to Ukraine. In September 2015, the government banned several hundred Russian individuals and legal entities from entering Ukraine for a year. Among them were 41 journalists and bloggers from several countries, including Russia, Israel, the United Kingdom, and Germany. In May 2016, Poroshenko removed 29 people from the list of those sanctioned.

“In a single move Poroshenko dealt a terrible blow to freedom of expression in Ukraine,” Cooper said. “It’s an inexcusable violation of Ukrainians’ right to information of their choice, and the European Union and Ukraine’s other international partners should immediately call on Ukraine to reverse it.”


Why are some people so clueless? Russia is an adversary state that wages both real and hybrid war against the West. And where there is a War going on you have to limit the propaganda of your enemy. It would be real strange for the Britain or the US to allow Goebbels broadcasts and sponsored media on their territory. Blockage of the enemy agitation and propaganda is an inevitable necessity of the wartime.

What makes people, smart and supposedly honest people into Moscow’s useful idiots? That’s beyond me.

Any thoughts NSG?


:rofl:

You do realize that you just did the equivalent of claiming that Russia blocks American Propaganda if Russia blocked Facebook, right? Probably not.

VKontakte = Russian Facebook
Yandex = Russian Google

And after allegations of Russia's hacking, they're blocking the best anti-virus protection out there - Kaspersky. It simply proves my theory that Kiev's current "leadership" consists of drunk dumbfucks. Oh well, more quality emigrants for Russia, so I don't mind :D
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Shofercia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Wed May 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Zemljoslav Republic wrote:I believe that blocking of any websites anywhere is unnecessary censorship. For example, this with Ukraine, and Turkey blocking Wikipedia is useless, as anybody can simply use a VPN to continue accessing the sites. Also, many of the blocked websites in Ukraine aren't even harmful in any way. (Disclaimer- I am not Russian) I use Yandex e-mail, because it works well, and I like the organisation. I never saw any kind of subliminal messaging on Yandex, except for the maps, which are drawn to include and exclude countries that Russia does and does not recognize. Anybody educated could spot propaganda, and know what it is, so blocking websites has no use, in my opinion.


Russian Google Maps: https://www.google.ru/maps/@45.6027736,36.1432322,7.86z

Notice how Crimea is marked as Russian.

US Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6027736 ... 2322,7.86z

Notice how Crimea is market as disputed.

All of the major maps do this. Your job, as a map resource, is to cater to your consumer. Most Russian speaking people recognize Crimea as Russian. Most English speaking people recognize Crimea as disputed. So all major maps cater to that.

And Yandex's email is similar in quality to Gmail, so the use is entirely up to one's personal preference. It's like asking someone if they want a red luxury car or a blue luxury car. Either way, they're the luxury cars of emails.
Last edited by Shofercia on Wed May 17, 2017 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Stonk Power! (North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Wed May 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Gotta go with Human Rights Watch on this one.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed May 17, 2017 2:24 pm

Yes, because clearly, the Ukrainian government, which sits in one of the worst, if not the outright worst post-Soviet states, one that loses a huge portion of its budget to corruption, one who many within suspect of electoral fraud, one that makes it a crime to insult WWII-era Nazi collaborators, should, at this juncture, make its people's lives more convenient by sabotaging their email and social media.

What a brilliant fucking move from those corrupt lard-asses in the Rada.

"Hey, let's ban a major email provider in our country"
"Yeah, that won't fuck over small businesses!"


What a fucking перемога
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Austrasien
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Postby Austrasien » Wed May 17, 2017 2:49 pm

Improved Werpland wrote:Not worth it until they can block people who impersonate others on the Internet as well. Russians.


But it's a good start!

A for effort.
D for not actually accomplishing much.
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Austrasien
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Postby Austrasien » Wed May 17, 2017 2:52 pm

Shofercia wrote:And after allegations of Russia's hacking, they're blocking the best anti-virus protection out there - Kaspersky.


You may as well sell your computer to the FSB if you dumb enough to use Kaspersky.
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Lonograd
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Postby Lonograd » Wed May 17, 2017 2:59 pm

I feel like if Russia had did this the whole Mainstream Media would go insane.
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Sharania
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Postby Sharania » Wed May 17, 2017 3:19 pm

Improved Werpland wrote:Not worth it until they can block people who impersonate others on the Internet as well.


You are correct. Several of Kremlin-aligned trolls managed to impersonate various VIPs both off and on-line. How can you sto things like that?

MERIZoC wrote:I wonder when Ukraine will take steps to limit "kike" propaganda

No idea what are you talking about here. Are you one of the "true believers" of Krelmlin's propaganda? Jews are safe and sound in Ukraine - they even have the opportunity to fill the highest post in the country (e.g. Prime Minister). But, yeah, lets talk about the mythical anti-semitism here!
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Sharania
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Postby Sharania » Wed May 17, 2017 3:24 pm

Shofercia wrote:You do realize that you just did the equivalent of claiming that Russia blocks American Propaganda if Russia blocked Facebook, right? Probably not.

VKontakte = Russian Facebook
Yandex = Russian Google

And after allegations of Russia's hacking, they're blocking the best anti-virus protection out there - Kaspersky. It simply proves my theory that Kiev's current "leadership" consists of drunk dumbfucks. Oh well, more quality emigrants for Russia, so I don't mind :D



Again - we are talkin about a hostile country here, A country, complicit in numerous hacking attacks in the West. Are you having trouble to see that?

BTW - Crimea is still Ukrainia. You, if you are really an American citizen and not some randon Kremlin-bot, should know that. Why? Well, maybe because that's the official stacne of YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!
Last edited by Sharania on Wed May 17, 2017 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ilmenia
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Postby Ilmenia » Wed May 17, 2017 3:24 pm

What was probably being said in discussion between Poroshenko and the Verkhovna Rada:
"Wow, let's ban major utility and social websites that a huge portion of our own citizens use just because they were created in Russia! That'll sure show them!"
What a bunch of уроды.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed May 17, 2017 3:27 pm

Sharania wrote:
Shofercia wrote:You do realize that you just did the equivalent of claiming that Russia blocks American Propaganda if Russia blocked Facebook, right? Probably not.

VKontakte = Russian Facebook
Yandex = Russian Google

And after allegations of Russia's hacking, they're blocking the best anti-virus protection out there - Kaspersky. It simply proves my theory that Kiev's current "leadership" consists of drunk dumbfucks. Oh well, more quality emigrants for Russia, so I don't mind :D



Again - we are talkinb about a hostile county here, A country, complicit in numerous hacking attacks in the West. Are you having trouble to see that?

BTW - Crimea is still Ukrainia. You, if you are really an American citizen and not some randon Kremlin-bot, should know that. Why? Well, maybe because that's the official stacne of YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

Crimea is Russian, and there is nothing the US can do to change that. The sooner we realize that, the better.
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Sharania
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Postby Sharania » Wed May 17, 2017 3:28 pm

Galloism wrote:Gotta go with Human Rights Watch on this one.


Any explanation on why would you side with these Putin's useful idiots here?

Austrasien wrote:But it's a good start!

A for effort.
D for not actually accomplishing much.


Honestly, I don't get your "sarcasm" (if it was a sarcasm in the first place). Ukraine is the spearhead of the Weastern struggle against Russia in all forms - both military and cyber. Maybe the West should be less half-arsed in its attemps to finance Ukraine for it to succeed in the many, MANY challenges it has to face?
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Sharania
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Postby Sharania » Wed May 17, 2017 3:30 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Crimea is Russian, and there is nothing the US can do to change that. The sooner we realize that, the better.


That's like literally saying "Poland is German now" in 1939. Are you not ashamed of that?
Last edited by Sharania on Wed May 17, 2017 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed May 17, 2017 3:31 pm

Sharania wrote:
Galloism wrote:Gotta go with Human Rights Watch on this one.


Any explanation on why would you side with these Putin's useful idiots here?

Austrasien wrote:But it's a good start!

A for effort.
D for not actually accomplishing much.


Honestly, I don't get your "sarcasm" (if it was a sarcasm in the first place). Ukraine is the spearhead of the Weastern struggle against Russia in all forms - both military and cyber. Maybe the West should be less half-arsed in its attemps to finance Ukraine for it to succeed in the many, MANY challenges it has to face?

So, Ukraine is, to use the Fox News term, the handout nation?
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Sharania
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Postby Sharania » Wed May 17, 2017 3:32 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:So, Ukraine is, to use the Fox News term, the handout nation?


Faux News? Trump's loyalists? Well, what does it tell about YOU?
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed May 17, 2017 3:33 pm

Sharania wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Crimea is Russian, and there is nothing the US can do to change that. The sooner we realize that, the better.


That's like literallu saying "Poland is German now" om 1939. Are you not ashamed of that?

No, because most Crimeans want to be part of Russia, US based polls confirm this:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/des ... ssia-1-02/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/ ... 0db688510d
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed May 17, 2017 3:34 pm

Sharania wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:So, Ukraine is, to use the Fox News term, the handout nation?


Faux News? Trump's loyalists? Well, what does it tell about YOU?

Oh, I'm just pointing out that Ukraine doesn't really give anything back to us, so we shouldn't support it while it flushes our money down the toilet with corruption.
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Sharania
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Founded: Sep 11, 2015
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Postby Sharania » Wed May 17, 2017 3:36 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Sharania wrote:
That's like literallu saying "Poland is German now" om 1939. Are you not ashamed of that?

No, because most Crimeans want to be part of Russia, US based polls confirm this:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/des ... ssia-1-02/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/ ... 0db688510d


How can you trust any polls of the people subjugated by the Russian military? Like - really?! They had soldiers at every corner there telling them to vite uncle Vlad - of course they behaved!
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