AntiFA: Protesters or Terrorists?

[Mavorpen]

You did not state what the actual tenants of fascism were.

I did. I mean, I suppose you could argue that I forgot some smaller details like a cult of personality surrounding the State and its authority/leaders, but I wanted to be more general.

I can't, considering there has never been a "communist government" if you're defining a government as being the organization that is the acting body of the state. If you're going to broaden the definition, then the Paris Commune and the Spanish Revolution of 1936 are good starts.

The Paris Commune which executed hundreds of members of the clergy for being counter-revolutionary? The Spanish revolution which, for the most part ( acknowledging detractors ), was backed by the Soviet Union?

Yeah.

[Natapoc]

Antifa are neither protesters nor terrorists. They protect vulnerable communities by directly confronting and opposing fascists. This may involve direct action or even protest but not terrorism in the usual sense.

[Republic of the Cristo]

You did not state what the actual tenants of fascism were.

I did. I mean, I suppose you could argue that I forgot some smaller details like a cult of personality surrounding the State and its authority/leaders, but I wanted to be more general.

The Paris Commune which executed hundreds of members of the clergy for being counter-revolutionary? The Spanish revolution which, for the most part ( acknowledging detractors ), was backed by the Soviet Union?

Yeah.

....

Okay, let me educate you on what Fascism Actually is:

Fascism prioritizes the welfare of society above all else. Every sector of society must be positioned in a way to benefit the nation as a whole.

It is necessary that the political system be completely unified in a singular set of goals in order for political progress to be made. A singular party to encompass the entire nation, and an authoritarian leader to head a meritocratic government are both necessary for a fascist government.

The economy must be organized in a state capitalist manner. Individuals are free to create, own, and operate private businesses as they please; however, the state posses the power to intervene when it deems that certain business practices are harmful to the nation. The state may even at times employee the labor of larger businesses to work towards a common goal in exchange for contracts and funding ( think war industry and the US in WW2 ).

The common culture of the nation must be upheld as a standard and as the most acceptable form of conduct in all aspects of the law. The common culture will always be protected and favored by the state over foreign ones. This can be done in numerous ways such as: promotion of the arts, encouragement of native languages, limits on immigration, and often times a combination of these.

The military must be held in high regard as both a tool for societal order, as well as a shield of the nation. Martial discipline of the men and women who serve in the military is highly valued and often encouraged, believing that it will lead to better citizens. Secondly, a strong and well organized military is seen as necessary to ensure the safety and stability of the state. Now, we tend to most commonly associate militarism with expansionism - which is not always the case. Hitler and Mussolini absolutely were fascists and they used militarism as a means of expansion, but expansionism is not intrinsic to fascism.

So there, that is fascism

[Republic of the Cristo]

And I wouldn't really site communist spain and the paris commune as good examples of communism - they were largely mob rule states, which is a kind of tyranny on its own.

[Chinevion]

Antifa are neither protesters nor terrorists. They protect vulnerable communities by directly confronting and opposing fascists. This may involve direct action or even protest but not terrorism in the usual sense.

SUUUUUUUURRRRRREEEEE THEY DO

[Mavorpen]

....

Okay, let me educate you on what Fascism Actually is:

Fascism prioritizes the welfare of society above all else. Every sector of society must be positioned in a way to benefit the nation as a whole.

It is necessary that the political system be completely unified in a singular set of goals in order for political progress to be made. A singular party to encompass the entire nation, and an authoritarian leader to head a meritocratic government are both necessary for a fascist government.

The economy must be organized in a state capitalist manner. Individuals are free to create, own, and operate private businesses as they please; however, the state posses the power to intervene when it deems that certain business practices are harmful to the nation. The state may even at times employee the labor of larger businesses to work towards a common goal in exchange for contracts and funding ( think war industry and the US in WW2 ).

The common culture of the nation must be upheld as a standard and as the most acceptable form of conduct in all aspects of the law. The common culture will always be protected and favored by the state over foreign ones. This can be done in numerous ways such as: promotion of the arts, encouragement of native languages, limits on immigration, and often times a combination of these.

The military must be held in high regard as both a tool for societal order, as well as a shield of the nation. Martial discipline of the men and women who serve in the military is highly valued and often encouraged, believing that it will lead to better citizens. Secondly, a strong and well organized military is seen as necessary to ensure the safety and stability of the state. Now, we tend to most commonly associate militarism with expansionism - which is not always the case. Hitler and Mussolini absolutely were fascists and they used militarism as a means of expansion, but expansionism is not intrinsic to fascism.

So there, that is fascism

Okay. Not sure how this contradicts anything I said.

[Claya]

AntiFA are terrorists who bully anyone who doesn't agree with them. However, they know almost nothing about politics, and the only reason they even exist is because they hate Donald Trump just because he's Donald Trump.

[Mavorpen]

AntiFA are terrorists who bully anyone who doesn't agree with them. However, they know almost nothing about politics, and the only reason they even exist is because they hate Donald Trump just because he's Donald Trump.

That's a hard sell considering Antifa has existed since the 1930s.

[Claya]

AntiFA are terrorists who bully anyone who doesn't agree with them. However, they know almost nothing about politics, and the only reason they even exist is because they hate Donald Trump just because he's Donald Trump.

That's a hard sell considering Antifa has existed since the 1930s.

But not in the miserable state it is now. AntiFA used to be against the Nazis. Now it's against anyone who isn't on the alt-left.

[Soyouso]

I did. I mean, I suppose you could argue that I forgot some smaller details like a cult of personality surrounding the State and its authority/leaders, but I wanted to be more general.

Yeah.

....

Okay, let me educate you on what Fascism Actually is:

Fascism prioritizes the welfare of society above all else. Every sector of society must be positioned in a way to benefit the nation as a whole.

It is necessary that the political system be completely unified in a singular set of goals in order for political progress to be made. A singular party to encompass the entire nation, and an authoritarian leader to head a meritocratic government are both necessary for a fascist government.

The economy must be organized in a state capitalist manner. Individuals are free to create, own, and operate private businesses as they please; however, the state posses the power to intervene when it deems that certain business practices are harmful to the nation. The state may even at times employee the labor of larger businesses to work towards a common goal in exchange for contracts and funding ( think war industry and the US in WW2 ).

The common culture of the nation must be upheld as a standard and as the most acceptable form of conduct in all aspects of the law. The common culture will always be protected and favored by the state over foreign ones. This can be done in numerous ways such as: promotion of the arts, encouragement of native languages, limits on immigration, and often times a combination of these.

The military must be held in high regard as both a tool for societal order, as well as a shield of the nation. Martial discipline of the men and women who serve in the military is highly valued and often encouraged, believing that it will lead to better citizens. Secondly, a strong and well organized military is seen as necessary to ensure the safety and stability of the state. Now, we tend to most commonly associate militarism with expansionism - which is not always the case. Hitler and Mussolini absolutely were fascists and they used militarism as a means of expansion, but expansionism is not intrinsic to fascism.

So there, that is fascism

Pretty much accurate, me to a T. Though keep in mind that there were things Hitler and Mussolini did not agree on which made their leadership different, though with similarities.

[Mavorpen]

That's a hard sell considering Antifa has existed since the 1930s.

But not in the miserable state it is now. AntiFA used to be against the Nazis. Now it's against anyone who isn't on the alt-left.

They're still against the Nazis, so...

[Republic of the Cristo]

....

Okay, let me educate you on what Fascism Actually is:

Fascism prioritizes the welfare of society above all else. Every sector of society must be positioned in a way to benefit the nation as a whole.

It is necessary that the political system be completely unified in a singular set of goals in order for political progress to be made. A singular party to encompass the entire nation, and an authoritarian leader to head a meritocratic government are both necessary for a fascist government.

The economy must be organized in a state capitalist manner. Individuals are free to create, own, and operate private businesses as they please; however, the state posses the power to intervene when it deems that certain business practices are harmful to the nation. The state may even at times employee the labor of larger businesses to work towards a common goal in exchange for contracts and funding ( think war industry and the US in WW2 ).

The common culture of the nation must be upheld as a standard and as the most acceptable form of conduct in all aspects of the law. The common culture will always be protected and favored by the state over foreign ones. This can be done in numerous ways such as: promotion of the arts, encouragement of native languages, limits on immigration, and often times a combination of these.

The military must be held in high regard as both a tool for societal order, as well as a shield of the nation. Martial discipline of the men and women who serve in the military is highly valued and often encouraged, believing that it will lead to better citizens. Secondly, a strong and well organized military is seen as necessary to ensure the safety and stability of the state. Now, we tend to most commonly associate militarism with expansionism - which is not always the case. Hitler and Mussolini absolutely were fascists and they used militarism as a means of expansion, but expansionism is not intrinsic to fascism.

So there, that is fascism

Okay. Not sure how this contradicts anything I said.

Because all you stated was how propaganda worked. If I were completely ignorant of what fascism was and read what you posted, I would only have an extremely vague idea of what it meant.

Vagueness of and idea can, and does, lead to some extreme mistakes. With the full image and definition clear, we can see that most of the people that antifa people like to riot about are indeed not fascists. Ann Coulter was not a fascist, Trump supporters are not fascist, Milo Yiannopolis isn't a fascist ( mind you he is a twit ).

So, keeping this in mind, antifa is not so much battling fascists - more anyone associated with the right. They are not standing up to fascists, they are practicing sectarian violence. Thank God their activities have thus far been reserved to just beating people up and small business destruction ( like a really laid back SA ).

[Claya]

But not in the miserable state it is now. AntiFA used to be against the Nazis. Now it's against anyone who isn't on the alt-left.

They're still against the Nazis, so...

Against just the Nazis.

[Republic of the Cristo]

....

Okay, let me educate you on what Fascism Actually is:

Fascism prioritizes the welfare of society above all else. Every sector of society must be positioned in a way to benefit the nation as a whole.

It is necessary that the political system be completely unified in a singular set of goals in order for political progress to be made. A singular party to encompass the entire nation, and an authoritarian leader to head a meritocratic government are both necessary for a fascist government.

The economy must be organized in a state capitalist manner. Individuals are free to create, own, and operate private businesses as they please; however, the state posses the power to intervene when it deems that certain business practices are harmful to the nation. The state may even at times employee the labor of larger businesses to work towards a common goal in exchange for contracts and funding ( think war industry and the US in WW2 ).

The common culture of the nation must be upheld as a standard and as the most acceptable form of conduct in all aspects of the law. The common culture will always be protected and favored by the state over foreign ones. This can be done in numerous ways such as: promotion of the arts, encouragement of native languages, limits on immigration, and often times a combination of these.

The military must be held in high regard as both a tool for societal order, as well as a shield of the nation. Martial discipline of the men and women who serve in the military is highly valued and often encouraged, believing that it will lead to better citizens. Secondly, a strong and well organized military is seen as necessary to ensure the safety and stability of the state. Now, we tend to most commonly associate militarism with expansionism - which is not always the case. Hitler and Mussolini absolutely were fascists and they used militarism as a means of expansion, but expansionism is not intrinsic to fascism.

So there, that is fascism

Pretty much accurate, me to a T. Though keep in mind that there were things Hitler and Mussolini did not agree on which made their leadership different, though with similarities.

Due to fascism placing culture and state above all else, of course it will vary from culture to culture. For example, National Socialism was distinctly German, and Ba'athism was distinctly Arab - but both fall under the category of fascism because they upheld the above tenants.

[Republic of the Cristo]

But not in the miserable state it is now. AntiFA used to be against the Nazis. Now it's against anyone who isn't on the alt-left.

They're still against the Nazis, so...

So are republicans your point?

[Mavorpen]

Because all you stated was how propaganda worked. If I were completely ignorant of what fascism was and read what you posted, I would only have an extremely vague idea of what it meant.

No, I didn't. I described the general principles of fascism.

Vagueness of and idea can, and does, lead to some extreme mistakes. With the full image and definition clear, we can see that most of the people that antifa people like to riot about are indeed not fascists. Ann Coulter was not a fascist, Trump supporters are not fascist, Milo Yiannopolis isn't a fascist ( mind you he is a twit ).

Ann Coulter and Milo certainly are and I'm not sure where the implication that Antifa believe all Trump supporters are fascist, especially considering they've defended Trump rallies from them.

So, keeping this in mind, antifa is not so much battling fascists - more anyone associated with the right. They are not standing up to fascists, they are practicing sectarian violence. Thank God their activities have thus far been reserved to just beating people up and small business destruction ( like a really laid back SA ).

No, they are battling fascists.

[Mavorpen]

They're still against the Nazis, so...

Against just the Nazis.

They were never against just the Nazis, so I'm not sure what your point is here.

[Mavorpen]

They're still against the Nazis, so...

So are republicans your point?

Where did I say they aren't?

[Republic of the Cristo]

Because all you stated was how propaganda worked. If I were completely ignorant of what fascism was and read what you posted, I would only have an extremely vague idea of what it meant.

No, I didn't. I described the general principles of fascism.

Vagueness of and idea can, and does, lead to some extreme mistakes. With the full image and definition clear, we can see that most of the people that antifa people like to riot about are indeed not fascists. Ann Coulter was not a fascist, Trump supporters are not fascist, Milo Yiannopolis isn't a fascist ( mind you he is a twit ).

Ann Coulter and Milo certainly are and I'm not sure where the implication that Antifa believe all Trump supporters are fascist, especially considering they've defended Trump rallies from them.

So, keeping this in mind, antifa is not so much battling fascists - more anyone associated with the right. They are not standing up to fascists, they are practicing sectarian violence. Thank God their activities have thus far been reserved to just beating people up and small business destruction ( like a really laid back SA ).

No, they are battling fascists.

You did not describe a single principle of fascism.

All you said was nationalist, didn't like liberals, and liked the past. That could have been a lot of people you realize right? That could be Russian communists for all I know!

And no, Milo and Coulter are not fascists. Neither one of them is a state capitalist, neither one believes in a single party state, neither one has called for a dictator, and I have never heard Milo talk about the military before.

They are both conservative liberals.

Edit: When has antifa ever protected Trump rallies from actual fascists?

[Soyouso]

Pretty much accurate, me to a T. Though keep in mind that there were things Hitler and Mussolini did not agree on which made their leadership different, though with similarities.

Due to fascism placing culture and state above all else, of course it will vary from culture to culture. For example, National Socialism was distinctly German, and Ba'athism was distinctly Arab - but both fall under the category of fascism because they upheld the above tenants.

I always get so excited whenever I find people who understand the meaning of fascism so well. A lot of the time people think it means anything right wing.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Due to fascism placing culture and state above all else, of course it will vary from culture to culture. For example, National Socialism was distinctly German, and Ba'athism was distinctly Arab - but both fall under the category of fascism because they upheld the above tenants.

I always get so excited whenever I find people who understand the meaning of fascism so well. A lot of the time people think it means anything right wing.

I understand completely. Most of my understanding has come from history books, the occasional book by fascists, and of course an unhealthy amount of Wikipedia.

Ever heard of the cultured thug on youtube?

[Torrocca]

AntiFa is a lovely group of protesters with rioters all intertwined under the glorious banner of revolution intent on forever putting a stop to the fascist threat to the world o/

[Aigania]

I can't, considering there has never been a "communist government" if you're defining a government as being the organization that is the acting body of the state. If you're going to broaden the definition, then the Paris Commune and the Spanish Revolution of 1936 are good starts.

The Paris Commune which executed hundreds of members of the clergy for being counter-revolutionary? The Spanish revolution which, for the most part ( acknowledging detractors ), was backed by the Soviet Union?

The repression of the Paris Commune executed more people (including children) than the whole "Terror" period of the French Revolution.

LOL.

The Spanish Revolution was anarchist lead and opposed by the fascist, the republican side and the soviet sector of the communist. For a quick read, George Orwell "Homage to Catalonia".

By the way the trading of weapons between the Spanish Republic and the USSR was because only two banking systems didn't participate in the blockade, and that were the Swiss ones (in league with the Nazis) or the Soviet.

The British began to froze assets of the Republic even years before they recognize Franco regime as the official one. Not mentioning the little help here and there.

[Mavorpen]

You did not describe a single principle of fascism.

Actually, you're right, I identified them, which is what you asked for.

All you said was nationalist, didn't like liberals, and liked the past. That could have been a lot of people you realize right? That could be Russian communists for all I know!

That's not what I said, so no, I'm not sure why you would conclude that Russian communists would fall under that.

And no, Milo and Coulter are not fascists. Neither one of them is a state capitalist, neither one believes in a single party state, neither one has called for a dictator, and I have never heard Milo talk about the military before.

They are both conservative liberals.

Yes they are. State Capitalism isn't an ideology of fascism, you're thinking of corporatism, which is distinctly different. As far as what I've read and heard from those two, they definitely would have no qualms with a single party state, particularly one based around Christian Values™, especially if it makes it easier to target minorities such as Muslims. Military is indeed a grey area for Milo (not so much Coulter), but if he leans towards this "conservative liberal" stance as you put it, he's probably pro-strong military but he's definitely anti-interventionist for the most part from what I've read.

[Soyouso]

I always get so excited whenever I find people who understand the meaning of fascism so well. A lot of the time people think it means anything right wing.

I understand completely. Most of my understanding has come from history books, the occasional book by fascists, and of course an unhealthy amount of Wikipedia.

Ever heard of the cultured thug on youtube?

Nay, I've never seen his videos. He does seem to have some interesting analytical content there. He'll be in my watch later list.