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What if a liberal vs conservative civil war broke out in USA

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who do you think would win?

Conservatives
251
71%
Liberals
103
29%
 
Total votes : 354

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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Sun May 07, 2017 3:20 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Englar Empire wrote:Conservatives have guns. Liberals have flowers. Who do you think wins?

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Empire of Cats
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Postby Empire of Cats » Sun May 07, 2017 3:59 pm

Really, it boils down to rural vs. industrialized. And we've had one round of that. Industry won.

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Uxupox
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Uxupox » Sun May 07, 2017 4:00 pm

Empire of Cats wrote:Really, it boils down to rural vs. industrialized. And we've had one round of that. Industry won.


b-52 wins.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

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Empire of Cats
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Postby Empire of Cats » Sun May 07, 2017 4:01 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Empire of Cats wrote:Really, it boils down to rural vs. industrialized. And we've had one round of that. Industry won.


b-52 wins.


Love Shack, baby Love Shack!

...oh wait. You meant the bomber, not the band. :p

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Valgora
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Postby Valgora » Sun May 07, 2017 4:01 pm

Empire of Cats wrote:Really, it boils down to rural vs. industrialized. And we've had one round of that. Industry won.


That's not how a civil war like this will work.
Again, this isn't the American Civil War which took place in 1861 to 1865. This hypothetical war is something else.
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:02 pm

Valgora wrote:
Empire of Cats wrote:Really, it boils down to rural vs. industrialized. And we've had one round of that. Industry won.


That's not how a civil war like this will work.
Again, this isn't the American Civil War which took place in 1861 to 1865. This hypothetical war is something else.


Tell us how it would work then?
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Kash Island
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Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:03 pm

Valgora wrote:
Empire of Cats wrote:Really, it boils down to rural vs. industrialized. And we've had one round of that. Industry won.


That's not how a civil war like this will work.
Again, this isn't the American Civil War which took place in 1861 to 1865. This hypothetical war is something else.



They don't seem to understand that the left is nowhere near united in their beliefs


the right on the other hand is more than willing to band together.
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:04 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Valgora wrote:
That's not how a civil war like this will work.
Again, this isn't the American Civil War which took place in 1861 to 1865. This hypothetical war is something else.



They don't seem to understand that the left is nowhere near united in their beliefs


the right on the other hand is more than willing to band together.


Yeah, that's actually very much not true. Thanks for trying though!
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Valgora
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Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Sun May 07, 2017 4:05 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Valgora wrote:
That's not how a civil war like this will work.
Again, this isn't the American Civil War which took place in 1861 to 1865. This hypothetical war is something else.


Tell us how it would work then?


The states call in the National Guard to keep order.
If the situation becomes worse, the federal government nationalizes the National Guard and uses the military to keep order and enforce martial law.

And liberals and conservatives can't be defined on simple geographic lines.
Sure a lot of conservatives live in the south, but not everyone in the south is a conservative.
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Ifreann
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun May 07, 2017 4:06 pm

Empire of Cats wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
b-52 wins.


Love Shack, baby Love Shack!

...oh wait. You meant the bomber, not the band. :p

All are powerless before the might of the Rock Lobster.
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What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won

The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:06 pm

Valgora wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Tell us how it would work then?


The states call in the National Guard to keep order.
If the situation becomes worse, the federal government nationalizes the National Guard and uses the military to keep order and enforce martial law.

And liberals and conservatives can't be defined on simple geographic lines.
Sure a lot of conservatives live in the south, but not everyone in the south is a conservative.


Yes, this could happen, but this assumes that the soldiers and the government will play it neutral in this. In all likelihood, they're bound to pick sides themselves.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Kash Island
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:06 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kash Island wrote:

They don't seem to understand that the left is nowhere near united in their beliefs


the right on the other hand is more than willing to band together.


Yeah, that's actually very much not true. Thanks for trying though!



Yes because the Islamists, Liberals, Mexican Nationalists, Maoists are totally going to swing arm and arm together in a fight.
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:07 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Yeah, that's actually very much not true. Thanks for trying though!



Yes because the Islamists, Liberals, Mexican Nationalists, Maoists are totally going to swing arm and arm together in a fight.


Half of those are right-leaning, but thanks for trying!
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Kash Island
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:08 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kash Island wrote:

Yes because the Islamists, Liberals, Mexican Nationalists, Maoists are totally going to swing arm and arm together in a fight.


Half of those are right-leaning, but thanks for trying!


The problem is that those "right-leaning" groups have the same goals as the left...
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Davinhia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Davinhia » Sun May 07, 2017 4:09 pm

listen
as liberal as I am, i'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say
the conservatives would most likely win
Year: 2013
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Valgora
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Postby Valgora » Sun May 07, 2017 4:09 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Valgora wrote:
The states call in the National Guard to keep order.
If the situation becomes worse, the federal government nationalizes the National Guard and uses the military to keep order and enforce martial law.

And liberals and conservatives can't be defined on simple geographic lines.
Sure a lot of conservatives live in the south, but not everyone in the south is a conservative.


Yes, this could happen, but this assumes that the soldiers and the government will play it neutral in this. In all likelihood, they're bound to pick sides themselves.


- The government wants to keep power.
- The Two-Party system helps them keep power.
- The two parties are divided between liberal and conservative.
- Getting rid of one makes the other more powerful.
- The government is also mixed between liberal and conservative; you'd need a very large percentage of the government to lean towards one faction for them to support it.
REDNECK REVOLT
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:09 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Half of those are right-leaning, but thanks for trying!


The problem is that those "right-leaning" groups have the same goals as the left...


Except they don't have those same goals at all.

That's like saying a Nazi has the same goals as a moderate. It doesn't work that way.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Kash Island
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Founded: Jan 15, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:10 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
The problem is that those "right-leaning" groups have the same goals as the left...


Except they don't have those same goals at all.

That's like saying a Nazi has the same goals as a moderate. It doesn't work that way.


wrong

Groups like Moaists and Islamists will fight the same enemies as liberals, but that won't stop them from fighting liberals themselves.

Christian evangelicals won't have problems fighting with traditional conservatives and libertarians.
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Republic of the Roman Nations
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Ex-Nation

Postby Republic of the Roman Nations » Sun May 07, 2017 4:12 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:Besides the titular question, what do you think would be the outcome?

I reckon it would end with a conservative victory. Not only they are most of the US population (the National Election Pool claims they are 35% of the population, as opposed to the liberal 26%), they also hold most of the firepower, with most soldiers, gun owners, weapon industry employees and militia members being conservative. As a result, the conservatives would likely gerrymander the voting districts to give themselves a high chance of ruling.


i'm having a hard time finding the results of the liberal vs conservative numbers.


Anyway, it would be a race to "Who can get to the nuclear weapons first".

For example, the ones in Colorado and (maybe) Vandenberg Air Force Base. Both liberal states.

They get them first, they nuke most of the US before the conservatives get to them.

Or, the conservatives get to them in states like Montana and nuke them first.

There could also be a moderate faction that could be the other 39% of the population and could beat both of them.


Nuclear weapons would only be of benefit to the conservatives seeing how the majority of conservatives live in the countryside as opposed to the Liberals who live in high density city centers. Hell, all things considered they wouldn't even need to drop the bombs, they just need to cut off the energy, water, and food supplies which territory wise conservatives own.

Cut off the food and water supply of a city and let the occupants fight among themselves.

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:12 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Except they don't have those same goals at all.

That's like saying a Nazi has the same goals as a moderate. It doesn't work that way.


wrong

Groups like Moaists and Islamists will fight the same enemies as liberals, but that won't stop them from fighting liberals themselves.

Christian evangelicals won't have problems fighting with traditional conservatives and libertarians.


Because Conservative Islamists will fight on the Liberal side of this hypothetical civil war.

Your argument doesn't work if it revolves around tossing half the people on one side to the other and saying, "see! The other side could never work together!"
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Sun May 07, 2017 4:12 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Except they don't have those same goals at all.

That's like saying a Nazi has the same goals as a moderate. It doesn't work that way.


wrong

Groups like Moaists and Islamists will fight the same enemies as liberals, but that won't stop them from fighting liberals themselves.

Christian evangelicals won't have problems fighting with traditional conservatives and libertarians.


I think christian evangelicals wouldn't fight traditional conservatives because conservatives tend to be christian and for christian ideals.
REDNECK REVOLT
PUTTING THE RED BACK IN REDNECK
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
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IRL Me
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8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

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Kash Island
Minister
 
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Founded: Jan 15, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:13 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
wrong

Groups like Moaists and Islamists will fight the same enemies as liberals, but that won't stop them from fighting liberals themselves.

Christian evangelicals won't have problems fighting with traditional conservatives and libertarians.


Because Conservative Islamists will fight on the Liberal side of this hypothetical civil war.

Your argument doesn't work if it revolves around tossing half the people on one side to the other and saying, "see! The other side could never work together!"


The only reason muslims get along with extreme liberals and communists today is because they all have one thing in common: hating the current system of government in the united states.

they have these common goals. They operate on a purley enemy of my enemy is my freind type of doctrine. You really think Islamists are going to share power with Liberals?
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Kash Island
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Founded: Jan 15, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:14 pm

Valgora wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
wrong

Groups like Moaists and Islamists will fight the same enemies as liberals, but that won't stop them from fighting liberals themselves.

Christian evangelicals won't have problems fighting with traditional conservatives and libertarians.


I think christian evangelicals wouldn't fight traditional conservatives because conservatives tend to be christian and for christian ideals.


exactly
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:15 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Because Conservative Islamists will fight on the Liberal side of this hypothetical civil war.

Your argument doesn't work if it revolves around tossing half the people on one side to the other and saying, "see! The other side could never work together!"


The only reason muslims get along with extreme liberals and communists today is because they all have one thing in common: hating the current system of government in the united states.

they have these common goals. They operate on a purley enemy of my enemy is my freind type of doctrine. You really think Islamists are going to share power with Liberals?


That doesn't put them on the same side though! You're tossing right-wingers on the side of the left-wing and then stating that the left-wing can't get along! Your argument has no base to it because you're grasping at straws to make it work!
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Valrifell
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Posts: 18798
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sun May 07, 2017 4:15 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Except they don't have those same goals at all.

That's like saying a Nazi has the same goals as a moderate. It doesn't work that way.


wrong

Groups like Moaists and Islamists will fight the same enemies as liberals, but that won't stop them from fighting liberals themselves.

Christian evangelicals won't have problems fighting with traditional conservatives and libertarians.


They'd definitely have issues on the social side of the coin, wouldn't they? Evangelicals wouldn't like the whole "yeah do whatever" approach that Libertarians take.
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